Beadlock seating unevenly

[ebeowulf17]

I don't have much experience with beadlocks, and I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking for in terms of how they seat. I've got a set of 4.19" ProLine Super Swampers on SSD 8-hole wheels, and the edge where the wheel and tire meet is perfectly consistent all the way around - there's a kind of squared-off lip of rubber that the wheel centers up in. I assume this is how they're supposed to be, and they seem to work well.

My new wheel tire combo is ProLine Hyrax (4.75") on SSD slot wheels. At first I thought they were going together just as easily as the SS, but then I noticed that the wheel/tire transition is inconsistent. In some areas, there's a visible break with a squared-off edge, much like on the SS, but in other areas, the tire just sort of curves down and disappears under the edge of the wheel. I have no idea what's "right," but it irks me that they're inconsistent.

Anyway, the difference is way too subtle to notice when I'm driving, so if it doesn't really matter, I'll just learn to ignore it. My question is whether there really is a "right" and "wrong" way for these to be seating, and what the consequences are. Will this cause tire wobble? Will it degrade or damage something? Will the tires fail prematurely? If the differences are strictly aesthetic, I'll probably just leave it be, but if they negatively impact performance or reliability, then I'd like to fix them.

Of course, if I do need to fix them, I could use some advice on how to do that - I've tried taking apart and reassembling a few times on two of the four, tweaking and massaging things differently along the way trying to even it up, and so far no luck (which is why I'm ready to give up on it if doesn't really matter.)

Here are three pics to clarify what I'm talking about:

Super Swamper (consistent all the way around)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTzWZThWwmRyASMd7

Hyrax 1 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f3V658tjVSx5QAxeA

Hyrax 2 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YNK5qAb8WcK51vc7A

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Did you do a star pattern? I’m sure you did, but Have to rule out the obvious first.


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[ebeowulf17]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

Did you do a star pattern? I’m sure you did, but Have to rule out the obvious first.


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Yes, first used two long screws to get the two wheel halves close enough for the regular screws to reach, then got four short screws started. Finally, replaced long screws with short ones and did the star pattern gradually until it was all seated.

I wonder if something is already off-kilter before I even get to the short screws - maybe I need to star pattern down with a full set of long screws to get things started before swapping them all out?

P.S. You definitely won't offend me with questions about things that should be obvious. I certainly tried to do things right, but I'm very new to all things RC and may have missed something obvious!

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by ebeowulf17

Yes, first used two long screws to get the two wheel halves close enough for the regular screws to reach, then got four short screws started. Finally, replaced long screws with short ones and did the star pattern gradually until it was all seated.

I wonder if something is already off-kilter before I even get to the short screws - maybe I need to star pattern down with a full set of long screws to get things started before swapping them all out?

P.S. You definitely won't offend me with questions about things that should be obvious. I certainly tried to do things right, but I'm very new to all things RC and may have missed something obvious!

I don’t think doing it all with long screws, then taking the, out and putting short screws in will help, but what do I know, I’ve never had true beadlocks lol. I honestly couldn’t tell you what went wrong, but hopefully someone else can!

And yeah, I’m a newbie too, I miss quite a bit of obviously obvious things if that made since lmao.


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[Hal]

I have some experience in tire mounting on a lot of different types of bead locks. The method you are using is tried and true for most wheels. What I found was proline tires have a thicker bead than a lot of other tires. They will work well with proline rims but a lot of other rims end up cutting off the bead when it is tightened all the way down. It also will leave an "uneven" look at the bead if it doesn't cut through the bead as you noticed. If it cuts through the bead the tire is done. One thing I do when mounting a beadlock is to use hairspray on the bead. Yes hairspray. A trick I learned when mounting bicycle grips. A little on the rim will allow the bead to seat easier and when it dries will act more like adhesive. It will not keep the tire on by itself. The biggest thing is to make sure there is enough room for the bead on the rim. Like I said Proline tires don't work well with other wheels most of the time. Other guys will say they had no problem with theirs. That may be true for their tire wheel combo but yours may be different. I know for sure the TSL XLs have a very thick bead and I have had a rim cut right through the bead when it wasn't even tightened all the way down yet.
If you have them mounted and can live with a little wrinkle, I would leave them alone. One thing for sure on all metal rims is to USE THREADLOCK! I know more guys who lost the screws on their wheels because they didn't.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

[OSRC]

I use Windex on the beads as I seat them. Allows the tire and bead to slide together easier, then dries out after a while. Works like a charm. When seating the tire and bead together, make sure they are square to each other, and continue to work the bead as you cinch down the beadlock screws. That will keep it from getting that uneven seating you are getting.

[Phildirt]

Good advice from OSRC. You just have to get the ring down evenly. I put a screwdriver standing up in my bench vise and use it as a post through the hub, set the week and tire into it, press the ring down, start a screw, and work the pattern. It takes a few shots per wheel and I egotten all the way to the last screw and had to start over.

[ferp420]

If I run in to a stubborn wheel /tire combo I'll use super glue to keep the bead in place just a few drops around the bead and it goes together nice and easy and I've never had a wheel cut the tire bead off I have however torn the beads off and used ultra black silicone to repair them and I've never had a failure also there is tire glue to fix torn tires or make custom tires

[Phildirt]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

I don’t think doing it all with long screws, then taking the, out and putting short screws in will help, but what do I know, I’ve never had true beadlocks lol. I honestly couldn’t tell you what went wrong, but hopefully someone else can!

And yeah, I’m a newbie too, I miss quite a bit of obviously obvious things if that made since lmao.


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So I’m gonna say something that could be construed as mean here but I’m not trolling...think of it as “tough love” haha.

You don’t have to comment on every post in a forum and especially when you don’t have advice in a tech thread. Save the bandwidth for guys that can give tips

You have 853 posts in like 4 months. It’s not a race lol.

[ebeowulf17]

Thanks for all of the helpful replies - this is a great little community!

I'm pretty confident that the tires haven't been cut yet. I've tried disassembling and rebuilding a couple times and the tires looked unchanged so far (hopefully it stays that way!)

I do have a couple more questions:

1. Is it safe to run them like this temporarily? I'd love to hit the trail within the hour, while I've got daylight. I can try rebuilding again tonight or tomorrow, using windex or glue tricks.
2. I need a sanity check here - I want that little exposed ridge to show right around the wheel on these tires, right? In other words, the Super Swamper is installed correctly, and the red-arrowed portions of the other two pics are good? Or do I have that backwards, and I actually want the ridge to get sucked in and disappear within the wheel?

Super Swamper (consistent all the way around)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTzWZThWwmRyASMd7

Hyrax 1 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f3V658tjVSx5QAxeA

Hyrax 2 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YNK5qAb8WcK51vc7A

Thanks everyone!

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by Phildirt

So I’m gonna say something that could be construed as mean here but I’m not trolling...think of it as “tough love” haha.

You don’t have to comment on every post in a forum and especially when you don’t have advice in a tech thread. Save the bandwidth for guys that can give tips

You have 853 posts in like 4 months. It’s not a race lol.

I’m not mad, but I did have advice.

I know it’s not a race lmao. I have a few long threads, including both my 3D printer threads, and old servo thread, and not to mention my long ass build thread. It’s not like I make useless comments, at least not in my eyes.

Like I said, I’m not mad so do think I am




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[Kingmeow]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

I’ve never had true beadlocks lol.

Like Phil said, just some friendly advice. You are posting advice on a Beadlock thread asking for help. And after 1 or 2 posts you posted the above that you've never had beadlocks before. See the problem?

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by Kingmeow

Like Phil said, just some friendly advice. You are posting advice on a Beadlock thread asking for help. And after 1 or 2 posts you posted the above that you've never had beadlocks before. See the problem?

I Simply asked if he had done it in a star pattern, and when I said I haven’t had beadlocks I meant to say I haven’t had these specific beadlocks, because I have had a few. But yeah, I see the problem. I don’t have these specific wheels, so I’m not much help.

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[ferp420]

Originally Posted by ebeowulf17

Thanks for all of the helpful replies - this is a great little community!

I'm pretty confident that the tires haven't been cut yet. I've tried disassembling and rebuilding a couple times and the tires looked unchanged so far (hopefully it stays that way!)

I do have a couple more questions:

1. Is it safe to run them like this temporarily? I'd love to hit the trail within the hour, while I've got daylight. I can try rebuilding again tonight or tomorrow, using windex or glue tricks.
2. I need a sanity check here - I want that little exposed ridge to show right around the wheel on these tires, right? In other words, the Super Swamper is installed correctly, and the red-arrowed portions of the other two pics are good? Or do I have that backwards, and I actually want the ridge to get sucked in and disappear within the wheel?

Super Swamper (consistent all the way around)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTzWZThWwmRyASMd7

Hyrax 1 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f3V658tjVSx5QAxeA

Hyrax 2 (ridged areas marked with arrows)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YNK5qAb8WcK51vc7A

Thanks everyone!

Your fine to run them like that ridge is the rim protector its saposed to be exsposed that ridge is on the full size swampers too it keeps the rim from pinching the tire and protects the lip of the rim

[djr01974]

Never had a problem with the proline tires on ssd beadlocks. But with the ssd 5 slot steel wheels they have ruined two different sets of tires by slicing the beads like a pizza cutter. They seem to cut them as you are turning really sharp. I’m not using them anymore because of this

[mash914]

I've only put together about a dozen sets so far, but what I've found to work best for me is to make sure you have the longer starter bolts to get everything roughly held together. I try to use as many starter bolts as I can because the more evenly you clamp the bead, the less likely you are to pull too much tire out in the next step.


Once everything looks pretty stable and you're not still having to squeeze or force anything together, I slowly work even everything up. You don't want too much. Then I work my way around the tire gently pulling the tire as if I'm trying to remove the bead. If you have it clamped the right amount and you pull with a reasonable amount of force, you should be able to get that rim protector lip pulled out to the 'right' side of the wheel's lock. It's certainly possible to pull too much tire out and then you have to start over - For me this means I either pulled too hard or didn't have the bolts threaded the right amount.


This isn't exactly the same thing, but at about 9:30 it shows the motion to get it right:



BTW, this video makes it look at least a little bit easier than I've found it to be. I still need more practice.
And I may try one of the other tricks here like windex or hairspray - I'll be curious how that affects it.

[ebeowulf17]

Well, I took a lot longer than I meant to before following up on this, but just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who helped out.

@mash914, your description of the gentle tugging, as if trying to pull out the bead, perfectly describes what I had to do.

The key, at least for me, was applying a little moisture to the bead before starting, as mentioned by @hal and @osrc. Without the moisture, the wheels were either too tight or too loose, never in the sweet spot where they would hold the bead, but also let it slip a little as I gently tugged. With the moistened bead, it was pretty straightforward - a bit more time and labor than with other tires that just naturally fit, but still easy enough to get them set perfectly.

Thanks everybody!

[Zukiiholic]

I made a tool that helps me set the bead and lock the wheel together.

[OnTheTrail]

If you do this long enough, I think we all run into frustration with beaklock wheels/tires. I bought one of these and I think it really helps. Very similar to the well designed one above by Zukiiholic. Similar principle where the star shape helps you get in there where you need a tool on both sides. Albeit a small tool but anything to help get the screw/nut started.

I think this also helps by not having to man handle the tire thus sometimes causing the bead to shift here and there by accident.


https://www.amazon.com/NINGWANG-Inst...4256653&sr=8-4

The other tidbit of advise (which I think I got from a tire manufactures site) is to put two rubber bands on the outside of the tire, one each side as far out to the edge as possible. (FWIW a # 64 rubber band seems to be a good size for 4.2 - 4.7" tires.....us old RC airplane guys know the #64 well. )

[OnTheTrail]

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