welder choices

[JohnRobHolmes]

i am in the market for a mig welder (before i get a lathe or mill ). from what i can gather lincoln and hobart seem to be the most available brands.

i want to get a 110 volt for the convienience, but im wondering if i will be making a mistake. the only other thing that i know i will want to make besides tube frames is gonna be bike frames. will it pull too many amps to penetrate thicker tubes for bikes? if so would a 220 volt system be a better bet?

i know how to weld from highschool classes, but im really clueless on the welders themselves. ive been searching online and all i get is manufacturing and service websites. i cant find any forums that are of value.

[ILoveRCRockCrawlin]

Originally Posted by ilovercrockcrawlingII

go with a 110v lincon gas weld thay work very good i have one and a stick welder that is 220 but if u are only doing rc stuff 110v will be more than enogh

hey genious he said he is doing more than rc stuff.

i would go with 220 auto feed just for bragging rights. and then if you need to weld something bigger you will be able to. auto feeds are fun my step dad has one at the shop he works at and ive been practicing with that

[cheapjeep2]

I was looking for advice on this as well, my buddy is a fabricator and gave me this information on 110V machines.


The latest and greatest from Hobart - Hobart Handler 140 MIG Welder, Model#
500500 -- I've got the 135 version of this with a bit of hopping up to get
what his one will do out of the box ----
* - output range of 25 to 140 Amps
* - 20% duty cycle @ 90 Amps, 19 Volts
* - 24-gauge up to 1/4in
* - 66 lbs

When comparing - look at the duty cycle data aside from the reactor (the
inductor that softens surging) the duty cycle will give you the best look
into the unit -- "My" method is just to calculate the wattage (real power)
of the units, then consider the duty cycle

That Hobart comes to 1710 Watts with 20% duty cycle and a max output of
140Amps (for $475 or so) {Nice beat easy to dance to, I give it a 342}
The Miller, Millermatic 135, unit is 20% duty cycle @ 90 Amps, 19 Volts or
1620 watts (for about $440 or so; weighs 60 lbs) {Comfortable rhythm, cood
for couple skates, I give it a 324}
The Lincoln, Lincoln Electric SP-135 Plus, is rated the same as the
Millermatic and comes with a nifty NASCAR logo for about the same price (I'm
not too sure that it doesn't just "turn left" if you get it rolling downholl
or like that...), but weighs about 2lbs less (smaller reactor coil - Lincoln
is renown for using aluminum or low alloy copper for their inductors and
transformers (bad - shorter life span, lower current capacity, thermal
instability, moisture sensitivity)...{Dick, while this still gets the 342, I
find it's output poopy and uncomfortable}

IMHO, go with a brand (Hobart/Miller or Lincoln) you won't be sorry and
repair parts and consubmables will be much easier to get a hold of. While
you can cheat to lower the output of some of the units, if you're looking at
thin work (RC 4X4 Chassis and suspensions ???) a lot of the 230V units won't
"get down" on the output and tend to burn through a lot of thinner materials
(tiny wire @ 25A is OK for rusty bodywork; on a 35A minimum unit you'd have
to cheat a bit to keep from burnin...)

But that's just me... (Best recommendation - TEST DRIVE!!! -- if you can
find a place that'll let you test drive or rent prior to buying -- try High
Plains @ 3035 S Umatilla St (really easy to get to Federal North from 285 to
the college then East on Dartmouth to Umatilla North on the left about 150
feet) 303-789-2844 - ... good source for Millerr and Hobart... They may even
sell you a rental unit CHEAPER!


Also,

While the Lincoln is fine -- try the hobart
( http://www.toolking.com/hobart/view.asp?id=10584 )

Just a bit more oomph - same consumables (now at least) for less $$$ (there's a Toolking just directly West of Hooters on the 6th ave service road; they've got one to touch!) --

The Miller version of this one has a continuously variable output (Hobart & Lincoln have a 4-switch-selected output currents), but it's a few more $$$$ (local retail $969)

With this Hobart you WILL NEED to buy a hood -- that POS shield that comes with the Lincoln is scary and takes-up qty=1 of your available hands (TOTAL PITA!!) - so you're really not making any extra expenditure there...

[rckjeep]

I have a Miller 175 it's a 220v and will weld from 22 guage to 1/4" I use mine for my 1:1 rig as well. If you are going just for a hobby welder than a 110v will be fine but I had a cheap century 110 and it sucked. granted it was a century. I'd spend the extra money and get a 220v I think it's worth it.

[Mud_Flinger]

Hobart’s stuff is nice for the home hobbyist but in my opinion that as far as I would ever use it. Lincoln makes nice stuff but I’ve never had a good machine from them and there lower end mig welders use plastic drive rolls were as miller uses metal one. All of the machines I’ve ever owned and used have been miller. There products are by far the best I’ve come across.

If you only going to use a machine like 2 or 3 times a year I would get an 110v machine.
If you’re really going to be using it quite a bit I would go with some thing bigger. What you’re looking for is duty cycle at the rated amp out put that’s right you. If all your going to build is rc tube frames a 20% duty cycle at 90A would work great. But if you need more than that your going to lose your duty cycle (duty cycle is amount of time you can weld in a ten minute period so 20% = 2 mins) that’s not much of a problem on a parts that 3/16 in Dia. And if you going to try and make any sort of profit by welding a 110V machine wont cut it.

I guess what it comes down to is how much you’re looking to spend and how much you’re going to use it.

My recommendation is the machine that rckjeep uses even for home hobby use.

I would also follow this guys Idea too on the machine that you like

Originally Posted by cheapjeep2

...Best recommendation - TEST DRIVE!!! -- if you can find a place that'll let you test drive or rent prior to buying...

[JohnRobHolmes]

to tell the truth, once i get it running i will probably end up makiing tube frames for every vehicle i have. then i will build up a brushless cruizer bicycle, and then i will hack up my jeep and start on that.

price range right now is around 500 US. however, i know that wont get me much for a new one. the miller 175 looks like the ticket, just need to use a bit more cash. thanks a bunch for the input guys!

i just realized i have a fuse box in my shop. i can get 220 volt no problem!!

[Artstu]

Ya go with the 220 ull find somthin to use it for ..... especially on a jeep make some kick @$$ bumpers

[rckjeep]

I have been extremely happy with my blue box. I spent $750 with a cart & regulator. It was worth it. You'll want to buy a bottle for sheilding gas as well. Buy the largest one you can afford. Find a place that will let you trade it in later for a bigger one if you buy a small one first. It's a PIA on sunday morning when you start welding your spring hangers one your 1:1 rig you are doing a spring over on and you run out of gas. You'll get a spool of flux core wire which is great for emergencies when you run out of gas or need to weld outside in the wind. Just remember to change your pollarity when going between the two. READ THE DIRECTIONS on your machine. GO BLUE!!!! I didn't see OCC make a lincoln bike.

[NitroRC Ed]

Miller DVI - will do 110 and 220. Little more than you were thinking about spending but might be worth the extra. I did not want to be limited to the 220 in case I had to take it anywhere.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...llermatic_dvi/

Glad I got mine - now just have to get the contractors to finish the shop so I can plug it in....

Not sure if this helped but gives you another option.

Ed

[ttrmike]

I have a 110 welder made by chicago electric. Its perfect fo r/c stuff. it'll weld up to 1/4 in steel with no problem, on max, and really small gauge steel on min.

[TwistedCreations]

cant remember which welder i have, been so long since i bought it. but it's only a 110 mig welder that uses flux core wire. for what you want to do, a 110 will be fine.mine can weld up to 1/4" and i have used it for that also. would liked to have had a 220, but i was building rollcages and crap on 1:1 trucks. I had completely built my old yota with the 110(rock sliders,custom frame,bumpers,flatbed,etc.etc.) and never had a weld break on the truck, but flux core wire does get hotter than normal wire also

[rckjeep]

how will a 110v welder weld 1/4"? I'm guessing not in a single pass. My 110v sucked so maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges where as a good 110v is like granny smiths to golden delicious.

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by Mud_Flinger

Hobart’s stuff is nice for the home hobbyist but in my opinion that as far as I would ever use it. Lincoln makes nice stuff but I’ve never had a good machine from them and there lower end mig welders use plastic drive rolls were as miller uses metal one. All of the machines I’ve ever owned and used have been miller. There products are by far the best I’ve come across.

Hobart welders are made by Miller and just labeled as Hobart units. The complete drive system in my Hobart 135 is the exact same thing as in my buddies Miller 110 unit. The drive system in his bigger Miller is alot beefier but thats to be expected in a bigger unit. My Hobart got hit by lightning and fried a few of the internal relays. Hobart said the only way to fix it was to buy a new motherboard from Miller,they told me themselves that Miller made all the internals. They didn't know that my father in law is an electrical engineer and can do anything with a circut board. Through a few tests we found the bad relays and searched the net for the exact replacements. They were only available through Millers electrical supply company. My father in law talked the guy into sending him a couple for free for a "test project" he was working on Sure does beat the $250 pricetag Miller had on the new motherboard. IMHO Miller makes the best stuff out there.

Lincoln stuff is junk IMHO. My boss bought a Lincoln to use on the jobsite so if/when something breaks I can fix it and we don't have any down time. He's not by anymeans a welder so he didn't really know what he was getting into. The place he went to sold Lincoln stuff so naturally they sold him the Lincoln. I'm the only one there that can weld worth a hoot so anytime something needs welding I gotta use the Lincoln. Honestly,I've spent more time fixing the drive system than I have welded with it. The drive system,to me,seems cheap and not set up very well. I don't like the plastic parts and the tensioner(sp) ,to me, is gauky and awkward to set up.

My brother just bought a Hobart 140. As far as I can tell,it's just a newer model of my older 135 with a hair more punch to it. The quality is still there and is very user freindly. My little 135 is just a 110v welder but I've built my 1:1 Toyota from the ground up with it and everthings welded just fine. It's rated at 3/16" thick material,well,with the proper preperation and weld technique you can weld thicker. Everthing on my Toyota minus 4 or 5 pieces was built with 1/4" or thinner material. The thicker stuff was TIG welded at my buddies shop. The full EXO,hangers,shock towers and such for the SAS,new crossmembers for the dual X-cases,skidplates and all were all welded with my little 135. I trust every weld on my Toyota with my life.

The little welders CAN go the distance if a guy pays attention to what he's welding and preps and welds it right. No two ways about it though,the bigger units are better for bigger projects. If I could buy a new welder right now,the smallest I would concider would be a Miller 175 but I'd do anything I could to get a 300 amp machine thats ready for stick,MIG or TIG. Then a guy would have nearly no limits to what he can make stick together.

[tomh1426@yahoo.com]

For what you wanna do a 100-140 amp welder is all you really need. Smaller Lincoln welders arent the best but they work. Miller is one of the better welders to buy but they are pricey (think you pay for the name). Panasonic owns Miller and recently baught Hobart so if you buy a newer Hobart your buying a Miller. I got the Hobart handler plus 135 and every part on it says miller. It turns down low enough to weld thin sheet metal and burns hot enough to weld a little over 1/8" , Ive welded 1/2 plate with it and even thow I didnt get "full" penetration I havent seen one of my welds break yet! Also getting the handler plus gets you everything you need to use gas which means you can weld thinner stuff , thicker stuff and diff metals like aluminum. I mostly use the flux core wire w/ no gas (.030 or .035) and it works great. The Hobart is fairly cheap compaired to comp Millers and even lincolns.
I ordered mine on line from sears and it was only like $10 a month

[Ace]

I have a lincoln 110 mig. It's been great for me.

I probably us it 2 hours a month since I've had it for about 5 years. No problems.

Will it weld 1/4"? Yes. Would I weld 3/16" trailer up with it? NO.

It will put a beutiful weld on 1/4" plate but I don't think the pentration is there.

Do I weld 3/16"? Yep but I wouldn't trust my welds with it for any live supporting equipment (no matter how good they looked)

I don't know what bike frames you want to weld, but I've gotta think most bike frames are tiged. Bike's use pretty exotic metals (chrome-molly, titanium, aluminum) that don't weld well with cheap migs.

If you want to stick mild steel together for your brushless bike it'll work great.

Thats my opinion from a wannabe welder...

[blazed]

[QUOTE=Ace]I have a lincoln 110 mig. It's been great for me.



Will it weld 1/4"? Yes. Would I weld 3/16" trailer up with it? NO.

It will put a beutiful weld on 1/4" plate but I don't think the pentration is there.

Do I weld 3/16"? Yep but I wouldn't trust my welds with it for any live supporting equipment (no matter how good they looked)

If you want to stick mild steel together for your brushless bike it'll work great.[QUOTE=Ace]

i start testing to get my certs on monday. i weild 1/4" mild steel all day for 8 hours and during lunch when the teacher is gone. but i like to turn the volts up over head but not for up hill. if you let it burn in there and watch your edges it should be ok.

just my .02

[HotRodCJ]

i have a lincon 110 model, great for rc and ive done some repair on my cj with it, it will weld up to1/4 inch but with multiple passes, having worked in the bike buisness for a while and taking frame building class you do not want to mig a frame, brazing and tig is for bikes

[Aus tra lee]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

i am in the market for a mig welder (before i get a lathe or mill ). from what i can gather lincoln and hobart seem to be the most available brands.

i want to get a 110 volt for the convienience, but im wondering if i will be making a mistake. the only other thing that i know i will want to make besides tube frames is gonna be bike frames. will it pull too many amps to penetrate thicker tubes for bikes? if so would a 220 volt system be a better bet?

i know how to weld from highschool classes, but im really clueless on the welders themselves. ive been searching online and all i get is manufacturing and service websites. i cant find any forums that are of value.

Beleive me when I say that MIG is ****HOUSE for welding bike frames. Unless you are a very experienced MIG'er, the frames will most likely look nice (clean welds etc) yet will have dodgy penetration in hard-to-reach tube junctions etc etc etc. You really should consider learning how to TIG then borrowing or using somebody elses TIG welder if thats what you want to do, IMO at least. If you do decide to try out MIG though, I would suggest LOTS of 'unnessecary' gussets at points of high stress (head tube junctions, shock mounts (if dually in mind)).

For opinions on building your own bike frames and welders that are suitable, I would recommend www.pinkbike.com or www.ridemonkey.com

[Trike Kid]

Get the best model you can afford, from a well know company (Miller, Lincoln etc...). A buzz box may be alright when you're starting to weld but you'll realize the limits of it pretty quick and be wishing you had a 220.

[EvilTwin v2]

My buddy's Millermatic 210 is a friggin beast. It finishes the bead with the same heat & penetration that it started...no matter the length. Neither of us has ever been satisfied with a 110 welder.