First Mill

[sim]

I saw this Proxxon MF70 mill yesterday and the price looked right...
http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc...1&idproduct=63
but can't see any big disadvantages to this unit (though my newb eyes). Maybe the table is on the small side.

My friend has a Sherline 5410, which looks great but is twice the price where I'm at...
http://www.sherline.com/5400pg.htm

I want to make small parts for RC cars - shock towers, suspension blocks (for touring cars, buggies), 1/18 scale chassis (about 5 inches long), steering knuckles if possible, suspension mounts (aka toe-blocks). Main materials I will be cutting are aluminium (7075 if I can find a good source), brass and delrin. Is it possible to cut beadlock rims with just a mill and accessories or should I just not bother until I get a lathe?

Not particularly interested in CNC just yet as I'm just learning for now. I eventually plan to get a lathe too.

[CadToChrome]

You can do quite a bit with a manual machine, but in 2D ONLY. The Z axis will be good for drilling and boring but to tap you need a reversible spindle OR something like a tapmatic tapping head. Z-axis can make cuts but only at fixed height.

Wheels would require a rotary table to make your stock round or cut the beadlock groove. Probably best left for when you get a lathe. Wheel centers could only be 2D design too.

Don't get me wrong, you can do quite a bit with a manual machine, it just takes time and tooling.

Just my opinion,
Chuck

[Joat]

Better going with a sherline then the proxxon, the proxxon is ultra light duty, sherline is light duty.

[jetboat]

I use a Sherline 5410 for all my builds... Cant say that its the best machince out there but, you truly do get what you pay for. I wouldn't try cutting hard stuff with it but for plastics and aluminum its a great machine. When you order it, order the shorter head block so you can turn the head sideways for drilling and machining things that don't fit otherwise. And order extra endmills!

[sim]

Thanks guys. Okay, after some reading and asking, I think I'll avoid the Proxxon. 1/8HP is half that of the Sherline 5410. The Y axis is less than 2 inches travel. I don't know much about accessories but the list in the Proxxon catalog seems very short.

Think I'll look around some more. Any recommendations for a larger tabletop mill (a bit bigger than the 5410)?

[Joat]

Originally Posted by sim

Thanks guys. Okay, after some reading and asking, I think I'll avoid the Proxxon. 1/8HP is half that of the Sherline 5410. The Y axis is less than 2 inches travel. I don't know much about accessories but the list in the Proxxon catalog seems very short.

Think I'll look around some more. Any recommendations for a larger tabletop mill (a bit bigger than the 5410)?

The next mills above a sherline is commonly known as the X1 series made by seig, sold at harbor freight and grizzly, there are lots of mods and such and you will need to tweak it abit to get is to machine consistently and accurate,not expensive mods just tweaks.
mini-mill.com Frank hoose has alot of info about seig products, also lots of links on his site, there is also yahoo groups, but stay away from those for now- lot of off topic chat plus no pictures like a forum.

[sim]

Thanks Joat,
Will spend a few days on mini-mill.com and read about the X1

[xaruum]

Another unit would be the Taig.

Sherline is good, there is no denying that, but it really tops out at aluminum.

The Taig is a much more rigid unit, which allows it to machine a wider range of materials, albeit slower than an industrial machine. I have worked hdpe, delrin, nylon, teflon, brass, aluminum, silver, gold, nickel, steel, and titanium, - all on a Taig. You just need to make sure you do your homework in order to cut the materials correctly.

Both the Sherline and the Taig have about the same physical limits when it comes to the size of your workpiece. and both can be found used ( sometimes new ) for as low as $400 ( manual version ) to $1600 ( CNC version ) if you look around.

The Seig X1 is really a step in the wrong direction, it is limited to smaller workpieces than the Taig/Sherline, and will take a fair amount of work to make it mechanically comparable to the other two units. There are larger Seigs such as the X2 and X3, both are more rigid that the Taig, which means they could work the same range of materials in a shorter period of time. And they can work on bigger pieces of metal. But, again, they both would require a fair amount of work to make them comparable to the other two units. And they cost a bit more.

In general, most of the people who pick up a small mill ( either manual or cnc ) will spend about an equal amount of money on the tooling - vises/clamps/tnuts/bolts/endmills/indexers/rotary tables/indicators/calipers/collets/lubes/workbench/etc.

Basically, that old rule still holds true, you get what you pay for. Just be prepared to spend twice as much as you originally thought in order to actually get your work done.

[sweli]

Proxxon XY is 5-3/32 x 1-13/16
Sherline is 9 x 3

I have a Sherline 5000 (31 yrs old!)
While the 9 has not been as critical, sometimes the 3 isn't even enough. I wish it was the 9x5 #5400. So 1-13/16 would kill it for me.

[sweli]

Not sure what it will go for - Ebay, used:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sherline-5400-Mi...d=p3286.c0.m14


I want this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-axis-CNC-conve...d=p3286.c0.m14

but would spend too much time at work on CAD and get the wife mad.

[jetboat]

If you go with the Sherline... I highly recommend the Table upgrade and the starter kit. I ordered the 12" table and if I was doing it again I would spring for the 18". The kit is great because it comes with enough stuff to get you started such as a vise, some clamps, an end mill selection etc. And for cutting lube, I have found that Liquid Wrench works better than ANYthing else that I have tried.

[MystRacing]

Just so you know up front, I'm an amature and just do this for a hobby so take it for what it's worth. I have a Seig X2, Specifically this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

I decided on this because it's a lot more machine for not a lot more money, and I use this thing half a day a month to make some trinkets for my toy cars. It does take a little tweaking to get some of the slop out of the machine, but it's not a bad machine. The bottom line is they're fairly well made and poorly assembled. I went with it because it was the biggest I could afford. There are two old adages that apply to machining equipment, "You do get what you pay for", and "Bigger is Better". It's true I paid for a hobby machine and that's what I have. Though near as I can tell, from a hobby standpoint, the only real difference is people aren't impressed with my cheap mill.

On the size issue, I bought too small of a lathe the first time around and didn't want to make the same mistake with the mill. This machine cuts delrin like warm butter and aluminum fantastic. It also does fine with steel, stainless steel, brass etc. I made the shock towers and servo tray below for a 1/8th truggy with it. I haven't regretted buying this machine, though I might just not know any better.







Making parts like these on a manual mill is obviously possible, but beleive me it isn't easy. If you're looking for lots of curves etc. cnc is the way to go. I have plans to convert mine to cnc but as always I have more plans than I have time.


Notice in the picture the 1/2" drill chuck is taking up a couple inches of Z axis space. Add in a vise and your work piece and even this mill gets to feeling pretty small.

Also make sure you take a long look at the tooling clamping etc. all of the mills will require a lot of other parts to really be ready to start slinging chips. For the X2 this is a good deal. This is for a X2 with an R8 spindle some X2's have a 3MT taper so make sure you know witch if you go this route, they sell the same basic kit fir a 3MT, I got the R8 because the tools are cheaper (It's the same spindle taper as a bridgeport.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...3489&category=

[chevellian]

MystRacing, I have to agree with everything you said. I also went with the Seig X2, for much the same reasons, biggest machine for the money. The Seig machines, in my opinion, are well made and it doesn't take a whole lot to get them dialed in. On the plus side of reassembling the mill, you will become familiar with the tool. This will help you out down the road.

There is a lot of info about this mill on the web, just search Seig X2. I would highly recommend this machine for the beginner, after some machine time you may or may not decide to go cnc. There is another whole learning curve to cnc, and it would be beneficial to have some practical machining under your belt first.

btw, I am tool and diemaker with over 13 years of experience, plus another 7 years in production machining.

[CCFBERG]

I use the same exact Mill for everything I do. Its always worked great for me!

[sim]

Thanks for all the info. That price really doesn't look too bad at all. I have another question now.

Is brass a lot harder to mill and tap than aluminium?

[chevellian]

Free machining brass (c360) is easy to work with and has a great surface finish. I would say it is easier to machine than 6061 alum. It makes a big mess when machining, especially turning, because the chips are very small and fly everywhere. not a big deal though.

Brass is a copper/zinc alloy. Stay away from pure copper it is a pita to machine.

[Sicario666]

If you're looking to buy a good mill with high repeatability and rigidity.get a bridgeport and be done.you can make just about anything with a lathe and a mill.with the exceptance of not being able to make radial cuts with a bridgeport unless you have radius cutters.which can all be bought for a reasonable price through enco. You can make beadlocks using a manual mill.you just need to indicate the center of your workpiece and understand how to convert bolt circle formulas from the desired diameter you are working from

[chevellian]

While the Bridgeport is without a doubt a superior machine, it also a wholenother animal. They weigh in at 2000+lbs, require about 100sg.ft. of floor space and 2 phase service. Just the transport of one of these badboys is a project in itself.

[sim]

Thanks for all the good info. Will most likely go with something about Sherline or Taig size.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do I need any special kind of table to put it on? The one I have right now is a flimsy affair (formerly an unused shelf with 4 Ikea legs attached to it) so I guess it's no good.

[chevellian]

I think you answered your own question.

Rigidity is a big factor in machining.