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07-22-2011, 03:35 PM
| #1 |
| Pebble Pounder  Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
|  New Brazer needs help
Hi guys, I'm good with a wrench/ruler but need help on my brazing. I bought a custom steel frame from StangKillaSS and need to braze my cagework onto it. I've never brazed before, so I practiced on various pieces of sheet (16 and 20 gauge), 1/8 x 1/2" flat stock, and 3/16 tube and rod. With cheapo "silver-bearing" solder and a propane torch I can make good looking joints. I de-grease, strip down to bare metal, flux well, clamp, and braze. But when I use the Harris SafetySilv 45 rods, the rod just won't melt. I went back to the hardware store and got some yellow MAP gas tanks/cylinders, but it still isn't hot enough to melt the rod. The tube/stock/rod is blazing orange, but the harris solder still won't liquify, and the flux all dries/burns away. You guys make it look so easy, what am I missing???
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07-22-2011, 03:56 PM
| #2 |
| No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,529
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Are you just touching the end to the hot joint? That won't be enough to get it to flow. As you're reaching your desired temp, slowly start introducing the silver solder to the joint. This takes practice, but you should be getting the joint to the correct temp just as the solder is starting to melt in the flame.
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07-22-2011, 04:11 PM
| #3 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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I can't seem to get anything hot enough to melt the solder (harris SafetySilv45). Even if I put the blue flame (from a yellow MAP canister) directly on the SS rod (just to see), it won't liqify.
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07-22-2011, 04:16 PM
| #4 |
| No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,529
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Even if you put the harris directly into the flame it does not melt? All I use is the same Map/pro tank that you describe.
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07-22-2011, 04:26 PM
| #5 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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Yes, that's what's happening. With cheapo "silver-bearing" plumbing solder from ACE I can make nice looking joints no-problem. But with the same process using Harris rods everything burns up long before the solder rod starts to soften, and even when it DOES soften it Does Not liquify, just falls off in a short orange-hot turd, which never liquifies. Even if the flux has been overheated, and is no good, I would expect the solder to liquify at some point, but it does not. It's VERY hot in my no-AC shop, so I don't know WTF is wrong. Again, I'm totally new at brazing, but artistic and mechanically inclined. Maybe retarded too.
Last edited by Maxwedge; 07-22-2011 at 04:41 PM. |
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07-22-2011, 04:58 PM
| #6 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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One of the masters/moderaters in my local club is having me over tommorrow for some lessons, so hopefully I'll get the hang of it. Thanks for the help.
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07-23-2011, 06:21 AM
| #7 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Albans
Posts: 507
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Did you get the rite tip for the map gas cause the one for propane wont let the mapp get hot enough. I had the same problem and changed the tip and everything is better now.
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07-23-2011, 07:31 AM
| #8 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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Thank you Onebdgti, I might go back to the store and get one. The guy in my club that can help me today though says he uses the same MAP/Pro pencil tip I have though.
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07-23-2011, 01:37 PM
| #9 |
| No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,529
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This is what I use. The TS4000. There are others out now, like the TS8000, that say they are 30% faster but I've had no problems with Silver Solder. I may check out the TS8000 though for the adjustable flame control knob.
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07-23-2011, 03:55 PM
| #10 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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I solved the problem. I was using the wrong flux. Duh. Went over to another club member's workshop and showed him what I was doing. I had everything right except the flux. He gave me a little of his Harris stay-silv flux and now everything is great! Good looking, strong joints. I feel much better now, and thanks for the input guys.
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07-23-2011, 08:56 PM
| #11 | |
| RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Token's life matters
Posts: 1,836
| Quote:
Do you have a picture of the right flux. We have been having the same issues as you. I use my Oxy/acet torch set and all I get is blobs and it will notflow out. | |
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07-23-2011, 09:00 PM
| #12 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lehigh Valley
Posts: 956
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Harris Stay-Silv works fine.  I have been rocking the TS4000 with the yellow MX bottle and it works fine |
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07-24-2011, 09:51 AM
| #13 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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Yeah that is what I'm using, the Harris Stay-Silv White flux. The plumbing flux I tried first would burn and dry off before the solder/steel got hot enough. The Harris flux goes from paste to foamy-looking, then a clear liquid right about the time the steel is hot enough. Works great. I don't know about Oxy-Acet though, I'm using Mapp gas w/ a Benzo. 4000 torch.
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07-24-2011, 01:53 PM
| #14 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lehigh Valley
Posts: 956
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When you get some more progress done post a build thread with pictures in the scale section.
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07-24-2011, 02:37 PM
| #15 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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I will jmz6. This was my first thread- long time lurker, first time poster. I'm much more active on my home club's site EPArcc. I started brazing on 1/8" stock, and it went pretty well (once I got the right flux). Today I got 3 cage hoops brazed in (more later, gotta go to dinner with inlaws) and brazing the thin stuff (3/16 tube to 16g sheet) is SO easy. I was really scared before I got my torch- now I'm confident- and smiling. I've been taking pics, and when I get a little farther I'll start a build thread. We have a G6 comp August 20/21 in Hope NJ, gotta get the buggy comp-ready! |
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07-24-2011, 07:21 PM
| #16 | |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lehigh Valley
Posts: 956
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Glad you were able to get the hang of brazing, it is kind of addictive once you get the hang of it. Sounds good..... Looking forward to seeing you there, I am also a member of eparccrawlers.com, you may know me by my username there..... | |
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07-24-2011, 07:26 PM
| #17 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Red Hill, Pa
Posts: 197
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What's your EPA name?
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07-27-2011, 09:36 AM
| #18 |
| Newbie Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Aurora
Posts: 27
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maxwedge, thanks for all the help.
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09-20-2011, 10:28 PM
| #19 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: panama city
Posts: 296
| stay-silv
that is what it took 4 me too. that si tha shiz i completed my rig in no time after i got that flux. right on  |
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09-21-2011, 01:07 AM
| #20 | |
| I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wayne county. PA
Posts: 2,507
| Quote:
 ...........bob.... | |
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Linear Mode
