RCCrawler Forums

toy4crawlin · 10-24-2007, 09:53 PM

Anyone try or have expeirence brazing Aluminum to steel ?

Building a 1/4 stainless tube chassis with 1/4 square alum side rails

suggestions welcome

thank you

Kamikaze · 10-24-2007, 10:00 PM

It's easy, bolts. If you can solve that riddle then you will be a millionare. You could say it is unpossible.

Coligny · 10-25-2007, 01:18 AM

Audi use epoxy on the new TT to link the aluminum front to the steel rear of the frame...

toy4crawlin · 10-25-2007, 10:38 AM

thanks

the lower skid (UHMW) has the aluminum square on the sides and the chassis is the round stainless

maybe I will ditch the aluminum

4wd4ws · 10-25-2007, 11:10 AM

Brazing aluminum to steel cannot be done.
2 reasons.
Melting point of the materials is very far apart.
Ferro v.s. non-ferro materials.

It's a chemistry thing.

As far as I know there is only one process to fuse these 2 materials.
Here in Holland we call it ''cladding''.
Its used to weld the aluminum upperdeck to the steel lowerdeck of a specific freight ship we use here.
Very violent,controlled explosion not suitable for small parts.

Kamikaze · 10-25-2007, 11:16 AM

Cladding is by far the coolest welding I have ever seen.

badltl510 · 10-25-2007, 11:48 AM

Cladding is cool and so is Friction

CCFBERG · 10-25-2007, 06:03 PM

I dont even care about the cladding although it sounds cool! I just want to know more about the "Violent Explosion" How is this done again?

Kamikaze · 10-25-2007, 08:19 PM

You take 2 plates and space them apart using small metal spacers, like around 1/8" apart, then you build a box around the 2 plates about 6 inches or so high. You fill this box up with powdered explosives. By setting the explosives of in one corner it actualy ripples the top plate into the bottom plate with so much force that it welds them together, sorta like closing a ziploc bag. Its pretty crazy.

mrpink · 10-25-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

You take 2 plates and space them apart using small metal spacers, like around 1/8" apart, then you build a box around the 2 plates about 6 inches or so high. You fill this box up with powdered explosives. By setting the explosives of in one corner it actualy ripples the top plate into the bottom plate with so much force that it welds them together, sorta like closing a ziploc bag. Its pretty crazy.

Please, do not try this at home; and if you do- take video.

Long story short, for your project, no it cannot be done. Like someone said, bolt it on.

CCFBERG · 10-26-2007, 12:26 AM

Sounds fun! Gonna try it

Ohhh wait ive done that before

Exodus · 10-26-2007, 11:18 PM

To say that you cannot braze aluminum to steel is a bit of a stretch. But, it is very difficult. The key to welding the two together is the temperature and the filling rod used to do it. With the right gas used and the right rod, welding aluminum to steel is possible. I have seen it done, and I dont know all the elements involved, but I do know that he used a bronze rod to weld the joint, and I think he used butane gas, but I'm not totally sure on the gas. The aluminum was a t 60-62 rod, and the steel was a low carbon rod. He welded them together as a demonstration and it was a very solid weld. I honestly didnt think it could be done, but I was proved wrong.

Kamikaze · 10-30-2007, 12:09 AM

Yeah, it can be "soldered together" but the joint is only rated at 17,000 psi, which is nothing in that small of area. Harris safty silv is rated over 60,000 psi and people break that stuff.

Kermit · 10-30-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

You take 2 plates and space them apart using small metal spacers, like around 1/8" apart, then you build a box around the 2 plates about 6 inches or so high. You fill this box up with powdered explosives. By setting the explosives of in one corner it actualy ripples the top plate into the bottom plate with so much force that it welds them together, sorta like closing a ziploc bag. Its pretty crazy.

Got any video?

I gotta see this!

Coss71 · 10-30-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kermit

Got any video?

I gotta see this!

They had an episode on Modern Marvels (Discovery Channel) showing the process.
It was discovered it during WWII that dissimilar metals would fuse under explosive force.

toy4crawlin · 11-05-2007, 03:12 PM

Just found this
Can I Weld Aluminum to Steel? ... Another method of joining aluminum to steel involves coating the steel
surface with silver solder. The joint is then welded using ...

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...m-to-Steel.cfm

Mad Scientist · 11-10-2007, 07:15 PM

"Cladding" is also often referred to as "explosion welding".

And I think Modern Marvels is only on the History Channel (awesome show )

fixinbigtrucks · 11-14-2007, 06:33 PM

it also says at the bottom of that article, that the weld is not generally used for machanical strength but mostly for sealing purposes.....I dont think that it would be very strong at all. beings that "coating" on the steel rod could be torn away from the rod........there is a variation of a cold weld that I have used that has proven effective in many instances, It is a stick of two different kinds of putty that you slice off, knead untill warm, and apply to clean materials, It is purchased at alot of automotive stores,,,,,similar to JBweld, but better and easier cause it is putty !

CrawlinClodKiller · 11-24-2007, 04:31 PM

Sure you can. Look here. I think I'll call it Elvis

The shock hoops are steel brake line brazed to 1/8" 6061 aluminum plate. I didn't think it would work either. He did it I know that truck he is working on is going to be mine and I see it all the time. He use safty silver and mapp gas by the way.

mrpink · 11-24-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawlinClodKiller

Sure you can. Look here. I think I'll call it Elvis

The shock hoops are steel brake line brazed to 1/8" 6061 aluminum plate. I didn't think it would work either. He did it I know that truck he is working on is going to be mine and I see it all the time. He use safty silver and mapp gas by the way.

good luck on that holding up.

10-24-2007, 09:53 PM	#1
toy4crawlin I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Campbell, CA 4 hrs 2Rubicon ! Posts: 2,044	Braze aluminum to steel ? Anyone try or have expeirence brazing Aluminum to steel ? Building a 1/4 stainless tube chassis with 1/4 square alum side rails suggestions welcome thank you Attached Images

10-25-2007, 11:10 AM	#5
4wd4ws Rock Crawler Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 673	Brazing aluminum to steel cannot be done. 2 reasons. Melting point of the materials is very far apart. Ferro v.s. non-ferro materials. It's a chemistry thing. As far as I know there is only one process to fuse these 2 materials. Here in Holland we call it ''cladding''. Its used to weld the aluminum upperdeck to the steel lowerdeck of a specific freight ship we use here. Very violent,controlled explosion not suitable for small parts. Last edited by 4wd4ws; 10-25-2007 at 01:36 PM.

10-24-2007, 10:00 PM	#2
Kamikaze I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 6,154	It's easy, bolts. If you can solve that riddle then you will be a millionare. You could say it is unpossible.

10-25-2007, 01:18 AM	#3
Coligny Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: French #70 living in Toyohashi Posts: 67	Audi use epoxy on the new TT to link the aluminum front to the steel rear of the frame...

10-25-2007, 10:38 AM	#4
toy4crawlin I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Campbell, CA 4 hrs 2Rubicon ! Posts: 2,044	thanks the lower skid (UHMW) has the aluminum square on the sides and the chassis is the round stainless maybe I will ditch the aluminum

10-25-2007, 11:16 AM	#6
Kamikaze I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 6,154	Cladding is by far the coolest welding I have ever seen.

10-25-2007, 11:48 AM	#7
badltl510 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salem Posts: 245	Cladding is cool and so is Friction

10-25-2007, 06:03 PM	#8
CCFBERG Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ramstein Air Base Germany ...ya Ive been Ramshafted Posts: 567	I dont even care about the cladding although it sounds cool! I just want to know more about the "Violent Explosion" How is this done again?

10-25-2007, 08:19 PM	#9
Kamikaze I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 6,154	You take 2 plates and space them apart using small metal spacers, like around 1/8" apart, then you build a box around the 2 plates about 6 inches or so high. You fill this box up with powdered explosives. By setting the explosives of in one corner it actualy ripples the top plate into the bottom plate with so much force that it welds them together, sorta like closing a ziploc bag. Its pretty crazy.

10-26-2007, 12:26 AM	#11
CCFBERG Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ramstein Air Base Germany ...ya Ive been Ramshafted Posts: 567	Sounds fun! Gonna try it Ohhh wait ive done that before

10-26-2007, 11:18 PM	#12
Exodus Newbie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hershey Posts: 23	To say that you cannot braze aluminum to steel is a bit of a stretch. But, it is very difficult. The key to welding the two together is the temperature and the filling rod used to do it. With the right gas used and the right rod, welding aluminum to steel is possible. I have seen it done, and I dont know all the elements involved, but I do know that he used a bronze rod to weld the joint, and I think he used butane gas, but I'm not totally sure on the gas. The aluminum was a t 60-62 rod, and the steel was a low carbon rod. He welded them together as a demonstration and it was a very solid weld. I honestly didnt think it could be done, but I was proved wrong.

10-30-2007, 12:09 AM	#13
Kamikaze I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 6,154	Yeah, it can be "soldered together" but the joint is only rated at 17,000 psi, which is nothing in that small of area. Harris safty silv is rated over 60,000 psi and people break that stuff.

Sponsored Links

11-05-2007, 03:12 PM	#16
toy4crawlin I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Campbell, CA 4 hrs 2Rubicon ! Posts: 2,044	Just found this Can I Weld Aluminum to Steel? ... Another method of joining aluminum to steel involves coating the steel surface with silver solder. The joint is then welded using ... http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...m-to-Steel.cfm

11-10-2007, 07:15 PM	#17
Mad Scientist RCC Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Saginaw Posts: 1,721	"Cladding" is also often referred to as "explosion welding". And I think Modern Marvels is only on the History Channel (awesome show )

11-14-2007, 06:33 PM	#18
fixinbigtrucks Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: davenport Posts: 41	it also says at the bottom of that article, that the weld is not generally used for machanical strength but mostly for sealing purposes.....I dont think that it would be very strong at all. beings that "coating" on the steel rod could be torn away from the rod........there is a variation of a cold weld that I have used that has proven effective in many instances, It is a stick of two different kinds of putty that you slice off, knead untill warm, and apply to clean materials, It is purchased at alot of automotive stores,,,,,similar to JBweld, but better and easier cause it is putty !

11-24-2007, 04:31 PM	#19
CrawlinClodKiller Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Omaha Posts: 581	Sure you can. Look here. I think I'll call it Elvis The shock hoops are steel brake line brazed to 1/8" 6061 aluminum plate. I didn't think it would work either. He did it I know that truck he is working on is going to be mine and I see it all the time. He use safty silver and mapp gas by the way.

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