Want to add a Vanquish

[Ty89m]

But I'm torn between Ultra/Pro of new Phoenix!



That said, can it appears I can buy the VFD twin from the phoenix separately, is it compatible with the Pro/Ultra?


I think I've seen mention of others using the longer 540L brushless motors in these VS4-10's, can anyone confirm? I have a Firma 2300kv and ESC combo I'll likely poach from one of my other trucks, but want to make sure it fits.


Lastly, is it even worth going with the Pro/Ultra these days if I'm indifferent about machined axles? I only lean towards the more expensive Pro or Ultra kit as it seems the QC is a bit better on those, but perhaps things have improved on the Phoenix?


Thanks!

[Panther6834]

I know Josh said what the longest length can that will fit the VFD Twin is, but I'm blanking. However, I was able to fit a Firma 2-in-1 in mine, with approx 1.5mm to spare. At the same time, being that the Firma 2-in-1 has a slightly larger diameter, I did have to Dremel away some skid material along the front upper link mounts (which aren't used, so no 'loss').


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[DRED805]

No matter which VP kit you get, the only things work keeping are the axles and transmission. If you don't need the metal axles, get a phoenix. I got one, and sold everything except the vfd twin, and now it's in a Gspeed with vanquish D44 straight axles.

[Ty89m]

Mind sharing why you only found the axles and VFD worth keeping? I was opting to go the Vanquish route to build something a bit higher-end than my Capra and TRX-4, but perhaps the jump in quality isn't so impressive?

[twade984]

Originally Posted by DRED805

No matter which VP kit you get, the only things work keeping are the axles and transmission. If you don't need the metal axles, get a phoenix. I got one, and sold everything except the vfd twin, and now it's in a Gspeed with vanquish D44 straight axles.

I’m going to respectfully disagree with you there, as a scale/trail truck the vs410’s can’t be beat imo.

Unless you’re purely after ultimate performance, then perhaps the flat rail is better

Having owned all three, the ultra is my least favorite, poor steering angle, higher center of gravity, and kit spec trans.

While I haven’t really driven my Phoenix yet, I think it will be the best performing of the three. I opted to sell the twin and put a pro vfd in for now.

The pro is my favorite truck I’ve owned, not the most capable but one I’ll never sell, and always enjoy driving.

Really just depends on what you’re after…


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[Ty89m]

Originally Posted by twade984

I’m going to respectfully disagree with you there, as a scale/trail truck the vs410’s can’t be beat imo.

Unless you’re purely after ultimate performance, then perhaps the flat rail is better

Having owned all three, the ultra is my least favorite, poor steering angle, higher center of gravity, and kit spec trans.

While I haven’t really driven my Phoenix yet, I think it will be the best performing of the three. I opted to sell the twin and put a pro vfd in for now.

The pro is my favorite truck I’ve owned, not the most capable but one I’ll never sell, and always enjoy driving.

Really just depends on what you’re after…


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I appreciate the feedback. It's down to the Pro or the Phoenix at this point. Was considering grabbing the twin and installing it in the Pro, but the cost goes up substantially once you start doing that...


Why'd you opt to stick with the original VFD and sell the twin? Did you find much in the way of kit quality differences between the Pro and Phoenix?

I'm not entirely sure what I'm after, as I'm not a competitor nor do I have the experience to determine what my ideal setup is at this point. I just want a quality kit.

Any idea if the Phoenix fenders will jive with the Pro body? How about using the Pro/Ultra half-cab on the Phoenix chassis?

[twade984]

Originally Posted by Ty89m

I appreciate the feedback. It's down to the Pro or the Phoenix at this point. Was considering grabbing the twin and installing it in the Pro, but the cost goes up substantially once you start doing that...


Why'd you opt to stick with the original VFD and sell the twin? Did you find much in the way of kit quality differences between the Pro and Phoenix?

I'm not entirely sure what I'm after, as I'm not a competitor nor do I have the experience to determine what my ideal setup is at this point. I just want a quality kit.

Any idea if the Phoenix fenders will jive with the Pro body? How about using the Pro/Ultra half-cab on the Phoenix chassis?

I decided I didn’t care about the 40% high o/d option, for now I seem to like anywhere from 6.5-20%, I’d seen a number of people experience failures of the twin sintered t-case gears (machined versions haven’t been released yet), and I didn’t care for how cluttered the chassis got with both the selectable o/d and dig electronics.

Plus I bought my current Phoenix second hand without a trans included, so I just grabbed a pro vfd off marketplace for $155.

I found the Phoenix kit I built every bit as quality as the pro and ultra kits. For the most part I prefer straight axles over portals, so that’s partly why the pro is my favorite.

The origin and origin half cab bodies will both fit the Phoenix chassis, although I’m not for sure the Phoenix inner fenders jive. I would bet that they do, they are narrower than the lexan inner fenders on the pro and ultra.


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[B-MOW71]

Originally Posted by Ty89m

I appreciate the feedback. It's down to the Pro or the Phoenix at this point. Was considering grabbing the twin and installing it in the Pro, but the cost goes up substantially once you start doing that...


Why'd you opt to stick with the original VFD and sell the twin? Did you find much in the way of kit quality differences between the Pro and Phoenix?

I'm not entirely sure what I'm after, as I'm not a competitor nor do I have the experience to determine what my ideal setup is at this point. I just want a quality kit.

Any idea if the Phoenix fenders will jive with the Pro body? How about using the Pro/Ultra half-cab on the Phoenix chassis?

Just my 2 cents, but I'd pick the Phoenix. Don't get me wrong, I love my PRO, but the Phoenix is hard to beat for the price. I love the beautiful alum axles on my PRO and the VFD trans is basically bullet proof.

I do like the F10 plastic axle housings on the Phoenix. They will slide better over rocks. As for the VFD Twin trans, I haven't run mine yet, but I feel it will be Ok and I kinda like the option of only running rear wheel drive. The VFD Twin is more complicated and really needs machined gears put in it though and VP still hasn't released the gear set yet.

I like twade's idea with throwing a PRO VFD trans in the Phoenix. The VFD does have machined gears available for it and is less complicated.

Hey, I'll try to snap a picture of my PRO body on my Phoenix chassis to see how the inner fenders work with the Half-cab body later today.

[B-MOW71]

Originally Posted by Ty89m

Any idea if the Phoenix fenders will jive with the Pro body? How about using the Pro/Ultra half-cab on the Phoenix chassis?

Here are a few pics of my PRO Half-cab on my Phoenix. I couldn't sit the body down all the way because the interiors are slightly different. The Phoenix interior has a "bump" in the driver side floor board for the OD servo as seen in the pic below.

It looks like the Phoenix inner fenders will fit inside the Half-cab body OK. As seen in the pic below, the sliders would have to be changed to the PRO sliders in order for the body to fit into the sliders.

[Ty89m]

Appreciate the photos and info B-MOW71!


I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll end up with both (or a combination of both) at some point regardless, just need to decide which to go with first



Have Vanquish committed to producing machined gears for the twin VFD yet?

[stigno]

Start with the Phoenix, and enjoy

[twade984]

Originally Posted by stigno

Start with the Phoenix, and enjoy

I would agree. Less of a financial commitment, still a great truck, and will likely just make you want a pro even more.


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[Ty89m]

Alright ya'll, appears the wife surprised me with the Phoenix kit for my birthday, and I'll likely get the Pro ordered up tonight/tomorrow to compliment it.


That said, is it worth sticking with the factory shocks on both the Pro/Phoenix? I have the GTS shocks I can use if need be, but hoping the Pro shocks work out for me (though it sounds like they're prone to leaking, which is a shame for a $800+ kit...)


Also, any upgrades that are a must on the Phoenix? aluminum standoffs/bearing plate etc?


Lastly (and I know this is subjective) but what's a good shock oil weight on these to start with?


I'll probably get everything I need ordered up this evening, so if there's anything else that's a must, I'm all ears!


Excited to give these a whirl, and hope my Phoenix comes with the improved spring preload adjusters...

[indybama]

Well HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! Thats an awesome present right there my friend. Its a fun build for sure! Wish i had another one to build myself lol

My phoenix shocks leaked within the first 2 days of scale nats. But i have some incision shocks that work great n havent leaked yet. That bein said, u cant go wrong with the GTS shocks. I usually run the 35wt they come with or i use some 70 or 80 wt ive got sittin on the shelf.

Im runnin stock trans parts n havent had any issues. Put it in some tight spots n bound it up at scale nats n didnt break anything...

[B-MOW71]

Originally Posted by Ty89m

Alright ya'll, appears the wife surprised me with the Phoenix kit for my birthday

Well, congrats and Happy Birthday! No better present than that!

Here's my take on the factory shocks. The Incision shocks that came on my Origin and PRO leaked. I rebuilt and rebuilt and tried thicker shock fluid and the right amount of fluid, but I couldn't get the shocks to hold oil. I have built shocks for many decades without issues and I just couldn't get them to stop leaking. I ended up putting the Traxxas TRX-4 GTS shocks on both rigs and they have been great. Super smooth and leak free!

On the original Incision shocks, I did try one more time to seal them up. I found that there is a hidden o-ring inside the bottom of the shock that was ripped (I assume from the factory) that was causing the leaks. I took out the o-rings, cleaned them up and replaced the ripped ones, Green Slimed them and re-installed them. The shocks now hold oil and I have recently put them on a rig to try out. As of today I don't see any oil seeping from the shocks. (knock on wood!) Keep in mind that these shocks require a much thicker shock oil. I believe VP recommends 70wt or higher, but don't quote me on that. Josh (Harley) has a video on building these shocks and tells which shock fluid he recommends.

On my Phoenix, I kept the stock S8E shocks on it. The are buttery smooth and so far I have zero leak issues with them. I really like how these shocks feel and plan to keep them on it. I even thought about getting another set of these S8E shocks for another rig.

As for the trans, I did add the alum standoffs and the black alum motor plate. IMO be adding the standoffs it make the whole trans stiffer and I like knowing that the motor plate won't flex with a larger KV motor installed. Also the motor mounting bolts tighten down better on the alum plate.

I'll have to check my notes on the shock oil that I used in the S8E shocks. I believe I used 40wt in all four shocks. I feel like it needs a thicker oil like maybe 50 or 60wt, but I haven't tried to change it yet.

[Ty89m]

Really appreciate the input - thanks to the both of you! Phoenix arrived today, so it'll be interesting to decide if it's worth waiting on the upgrade parts, or just getting after it and adding that stuff retroactively I'm impatient and free-time is at a premium, so I'll likely start building and add stuff later.

Any idea what the ideal KV rating is for the Phoenix and Pro on the stock gearing? I've got a 2100kv Firma 60A combo that'll go into one of them, but need to get another ordered and wasn't sure if 2800kv would be more appropriate?

EDIT: I'll reusing my Firma 60A/2100kv sensored setup in the Phoenix, and picked up my first Mamba X/HH Puller Pro V2 2700kv for the Pro. I really like the Firma/Axe R2 systems, but have never given anything else a try, so figured it was a great opportunity to give Castle and Holmes a go. Now I just need to decide how I want to handle the shift/dig servo's on the Phoenix. Considering going with the NSDRC RS100's to save some weight/money, otherwise the Shift LP's look like they'd work well, and I already have the Vanquish 24mm horns on hand.