RCCrawler Forums

Vitamin_J · 01-01-2005, 10:02 PM

hey, just joined cuz i want to get into rc crawling.

anyway, i am looking into getting a X-Factor 2. don't try to get me to buy an electric truck because i won't. i've already sold all my electric stuff and only run nitro right now.

my question is: i heard about a "slider clutch" and i'm curious as to what it is. i've read up on nitro crawlers and according to most people the reason they can't crawl as well is because the clutch's aren't suited to engaging and disengaging as much as crawling requires and they heat up and lose performance. this all makes perfect sence, i used to have the same problem with my nitro ST.

does a "slider clutch" work differently? please help me understand it.

also, would it be possible to build a custom clutch cooler. maybe passive with maybe a heatsink on the clutch, or active with a fan, or even water cooled? that seems like the best idea

what do you guys think? thanks!

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 02:55 PM

bump

XFACTOR · 01-02-2005, 03:08 PM

You'd be better off buying a clod

but seriously..what you need to do is buy some alloy clutch shoes, these wont burn out easy like the rubber/plastic ones...and tighten the slipper clutch right-up..

Although with any nitro truck..it will suck at crawling..you cant get the same control out of one liek you can in an electric truck..

So why don't you want an electric crawler if your serious about crawling?

moonbuggy · 01-02-2005, 04:07 PM

by sliding clutch do you mean a centax clutch, and if so it is still a centrifugal clutch. I have heard of someone makeing a magnetic clutch, that would allow for smooth power delivery(that would probably ruin the electronic gear). But even if you did come up with some ingenious clutch system, you would have to come up with an extremely low crawl ratio, probably like 400:1. And a fuel system that can run at any angle, meaning a mgt tank or a alirplane tank (which are hard to refill quickly). I could keep going, but you get the idea....

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 04:14 PM

i want a truck that can crawl as well as bash, and the x-factor just seems to fit

also i just sold all my electric stuff (batts, charger, etc) as well as my custom Stampede with dual batteries, 13T, masher 2ks, new shocks etc.....

i stopped RCing for a few months cuz i got into paintball, but then i decided to buy a nitro stadium truck, i got a Maximum ST.....i romped it like hell and loved it, then i blew the motor so i swapped in a .21, a few steel spurs later i sold the truck as a rolling chassis.

now i have a Nitro TC3 on road car that i'm going to try and race. i was reading RC Car Action and saw a review of the X-Factor, i loved it. so i started reading up on crawling and it looks like a ton of fun.

the main reason i don't want electric is the run time problem. i could take my ST to a track, or some other place with nothing but a gallon of gas and a few C batteries for the igniter. and i'd spend the whole day romping. with my stampede even with dual batts in parallel i could never get more than 15 mins out of them before a recharge. and i could never recharge "in the field" so that limits me to either a) a bunch of batteries or b) bashing in my yard (in the middle of suburbia)

on top of that you can run a nitro engine non-stop for several hours, an electric motor has to cool down and can burn up easy, as well as the batteries

1 good battery is $40, 1 gallon of nitro is $20
good charger is $70, a starter box is $40 (ebay what what!)
ESCand motor are easily over $100, the x-factor comes with a motor (and a good one at that)

besides, once you go nitro, you don't go back.

it'd take a lot to make me go back to electric, like sex with Lindsay Lohan....

besides, i like challenges, there aren't many good nitro crawlers, and i've been drawing up a lot of design ideas for the X-F.

moonbuggy · 01-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

i want a truck that can crawl as well as bash, and the x-factor just seems to fit

The x-f is only really good at bashing. Way too much torque steer, high cg, low ground clearence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

i was reading RC Car Action and saw a review of the X-Factor, i loved it. so i started reading up on crawling and it looks like a ton of fun.

true it is fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

the main reason i don't want electric is the run time problem. i could take my ST to a track, or some other place with nothing but a gallon of gas and a few C batteries for the igniter. and i'd spend the whole day romping. with my stampede even with dual batts in parallel i could never get more than 15 mins out of them before a recharge.

I guess you haven't done much research; most guys on here, including me get anywhere from 45mins to 1hr and 15mins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

and i could never recharge "in the field" so that limits me to either a) a bunch of batteries or b) bashing in my yard (in the middle of suburbia)

they make chargers that can run off of a car battery...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

on top of that you can run a nitro engine non-stop for several hours, an electric motor has to cool down and can burn up easy, as well as the batteries

only if the engine is tuned right, same goes for electrics, besides we all use really high turn low draw motors so there really isn't any heat build-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

1 good battery is $40, 1 gallon of nitro is $20
good charger is $70, a starter box is $40 (ebay what what!)
ESCand motor are easily over $100, the x-factor comes with a motor (and a good one at that)

true batteries are more than a gallon of fuel, but you can re-use batts
and you still need 1 or 2 batts to run that starter box and a charger for those batts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

besides, once you go nitro, you don't go back.

what's wrong with both?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

besides, i like challenges, there aren't many good nitro crawlers, and i've been drawing up a lot of design ideas for the X-F.

there is a reason that there aren't many (they don't compare to electrics)
lets see one of those designs!

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 04:51 PM

oh yeah, my starter box runs of my car battery....

but anyway, i never knew that you guys got such good battery life! an hour, thats crazy!

but for some reason i just feel more comfortable with nitro.

both have been around for awhile so both power sources have been refined very much. i guess it comes down to what's best for this particular type of RCing. while electric's make great crawlers, i want to make a great nitro crawler, and if i don't then i'll switch to electric, how about that?

i just want to try it. besides, others can learn from my mistakes

EDIT: i made a new thread with one of my ideas

SR5Dave · 01-02-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

on top of that you can run a nitro engine non-stop for several hours, an electric motor has to cool down and can burn up easy, as well as the batteries

1 good battery is $40, 1 gallon of nitro is $20
good charger is $70, a starter box is $40 (ebay what what!)
ESCand motor are easily over $100, the x-factor comes with a motor (and a good one at that)

besides, once you go nitro, you don't go back.

I can run my rig for several hours non stop. I have more run time than you could pray for. (1.5 hours)

Batteries are re-usable, have you found out a way to re-use gas? If so, I'd really like to know how. I can reuse my batteries for several years. And the batteries I run (which work excellent) are cheaper than a gallon of nitro ;)

The X-Factor is like a 400$ truck.. I would hope it comes with a motor!

NITRO SUCKS!

Electric cars have all the speed records too.

I can also go out at 3am and run my rig without my neighbors hating me

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 06:21 PM

you can only run at 3am if you remember to turn on the charger at 2am

SR5Dave · 01-02-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

you can only run at 3am if you remember to turn on the charger at 2am

I keep several charged batteries around... I have 8 3,000 mAH+ packs

Enough for 6 hours

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 06:38 PM

^^ i've got one gallon of 20% nitro, $17.99.....days of bashing my TC3

SR5Dave · 01-02-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitamin_J

^^ i've got one gallon of 20% nitro, $17.99.....days of bashing my TC3

Well, yeah, but I've used my batteries for 6 months :P

Anyway; good luck on your nitro ventures ;)

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 06:47 PM

thx, if it doesn't work i'll let ya know. but if it does work i'm definately gonna tell you. it should at least be a lot of fun. i'll keep ya updated

sambmx · 01-02-2005, 06:51 PM

Ive run nitro and have gone back to electric, thers nothing like the torque of an electric motor and reduction crawling insane things and just not stoping until something breaks

.If your still hell bent on nitro, (we just trying to help you not just being assholes because electrics the way to go and allways will be) look into building a manual clutch that you can operate from the controler. Its fairly easy to do with a nitro stadium truck tranny, some aluminum stock, and a few gears for a decent clutch and reduction.

If i have the free time ill do a wright up on this for you if you would like.
pm me.

Vitamin_J · 01-02-2005, 07:30 PM

check pm box

sambmx · 01-03-2005, 04:07 PM

Im making one out of a maxx diff because everyone has a few and they seem plenty strong. Do you have any 1:1 wheeling/crawling experience? What the basic design is to build a pinion brake. The diff is used in a way that the imput power from the motor goes in one outdrive and power to the gear reduction/tranny comes out the other. When the pinion brake is locked power is directed through the internal diff spider gears and to the tranny. (clutch engaged) When the brake on the pinnion shaft is relesed it allows power to insted rotate the diff housing and pinnion.(clutch disengaged) It is a rather simple concept once you understand what in talking about.Pick up a diff and mess around with it and youll see what i mean. The pinnion brake would be operated like any other nitro brake with a servo. A must have would be lots of gear reduction because as the power flows through the spider gears the ratio is doubled. I would install 3 gd600s inline or custom make a gearbox is what id do to make up for the high revs of a nitro and doubling of ratio.

cman_1500w · 01-03-2005, 05:52 PM

I don't think anyone answered your original question about the sliding clutch. Here's a link.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149596.asp

You can see that it's just 2 big clutch shoes that slide the opposite way from each other. With more surface area they grab better than most 3shoe clutches I've seen and is an excellent upgrade from the stock shoes the xfactor comes with. It has lasted a long time as well. Over a gallon run and it's still strong.

This is the best r/c clutch to buy for the xfactor IMO. For rock crawling purposes you will need something better however.

Vitamin_J · 01-03-2005, 06:29 PM

yeah, i've seen those b4, just never knew what they were called.

sambmx told me about making a clutch out of a differential. that sounds like it would work great.

i'm just worried about mounting, hopefully i can find room

Junior · 01-25-2005, 11:46 AM

I dont know if this sounds stupid but, here is an idea I have on the manual clutch idea. Use a bearing on a lever which is activated by a servo on its own channel. It could roll on the slipper clutch and when you engage the servo the slipper is then engaged like a real clutch. I will try this if any of you think it could work. I have an XF-2 with 8 shock set-up, diffs locked, modified savage tires and wheels, helicopter header tank, computer case fan for motor, JR 7 channel heli radio, independent 4WS, and 25% racing fuel. Still looking to drop the gear ration. Any advice or imput is appreciated.

mremax · 01-26-2005, 05:59 AM

Hey Junior I would be interested in the out come of that!!! Let me know how it turns out .

01-01-2005, 10:02 PM	#1
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	new here, clutch question..... hey, just joined cuz i want to get into rc crawling. anyway, i am looking into getting a X-Factor 2. don't try to get me to buy an electric truck because i won't. i've already sold all my electric stuff and only run nitro right now. my question is: i heard about a "slider clutch" and i'm curious as to what it is. i've read up on nitro crawlers and according to most people the reason they can't crawl as well is because the clutch's aren't suited to engaging and disengaging as much as crawling requires and they heat up and lose performance. this all makes perfect sence, i used to have the same problem with my nitro ST. does a "slider clutch" work differently? please help me understand it. also, would it be possible to build a custom clutch cooler. maybe passive with maybe a heatsink on the clutch, or active with a fan, or even water cooled? that seems like the best idea what do you guys think? thanks!

01-02-2005, 02:55 PM	#2
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... bump

01-02-2005, 03:08 PM	#3
XFACTOR Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austalia Posts: 329	Re: new here, clutch question..... You'd be better off buying a clod but seriously..what you need to do is buy some alloy clutch shoes, these wont burn out easy like the rubber/plastic ones...and tighten the slipper clutch right-up.. Although with any nitro truck..it will suck at crawling..you cant get the same control out of one liek you can in an electric truck.. So why don't you want an electric crawler if your serious about crawling?

01-02-2005, 04:07 PM	#4
moonbuggy Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ventura Posts: 326	Re: new here, clutch question..... by sliding clutch do you mean a centax clutch, and if so it is still a centrifugal clutch. I have heard of someone makeing a magnetic clutch, that would allow for smooth power delivery(that would probably ruin the electronic gear). But even if you did come up with some ingenious clutch system, you would have to come up with an extremely low crawl ratio, probably like 400:1. And a fuel system that can run at any angle, meaning a mgt tank or a alirplane tank (which are hard to refill quickly). I could keep going, but you get the idea....

01-02-2005, 04:14 PM	#5
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... i want a truck that can crawl as well as bash, and the x-factor just seems to fit also i just sold all my electric stuff (batts, charger, etc) as well as my custom Stampede with dual batteries, 13T, masher 2ks, new shocks etc..... i stopped RCing for a few months cuz i got into paintball, but then i decided to buy a nitro stadium truck, i got a Maximum ST.....i romped it like hell and loved it, then i blew the motor so i swapped in a .21, a few steel spurs later i sold the truck as a rolling chassis. now i have a Nitro TC3 on road car that i'm going to try and race. i was reading RC Car Action and saw a review of the X-Factor, i loved it. so i started reading up on crawling and it looks like a ton of fun. the main reason i don't want electric is the run time problem. i could take my ST to a track, or some other place with nothing but a gallon of gas and a few C batteries for the igniter. and i'd spend the whole day romping. with my stampede even with dual batts in parallel i could never get more than 15 mins out of them before a recharge. and i could never recharge "in the field" so that limits me to either a) a bunch of batteries or b) bashing in my yard (in the middle of suburbia) on top of that you can run a nitro engine non-stop for several hours, an electric motor has to cool down and can burn up easy, as well as the batteries 1 good battery is $40, 1 gallon of nitro is $20 good charger is $70, a starter box is $40 (ebay what what!) ESCand motor are easily over $100, the x-factor comes with a motor (and a good one at that) besides, once you go nitro, you don't go back. it'd take a lot to make me go back to electric, like sex with Lindsay Lohan.... besides, i like challenges, there aren't many good nitro crawlers, and i've been drawing up a lot of design ideas for the X-F.

01-02-2005, 04:51 PM	#7
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... oh yeah, my starter box runs of my car battery.... but anyway, i never knew that you guys got such good battery life! an hour, thats crazy! but for some reason i just feel more comfortable with nitro. both have been around for awhile so both power sources have been refined very much. i guess it comes down to what's best for this particular type of RCing. while electric's make great crawlers, i want to make a great nitro crawler, and if i don't then i'll switch to electric, how about that? i just want to try it. besides, others can learn from my mistakes EDIT: i made a new thread with one of my ideas

01-02-2005, 06:21 PM	#9
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... you can only run at 3am if you remember to turn on the charger at 2am

01-02-2005, 06:38 PM	#11
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... ^^ i've got one gallon of 20% nitro, $17.99.....days of bashing my TC3

01-02-2005, 06:47 PM	#13
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... thx, if it doesn't work i'll let ya know. but if it does work i'm definately gonna tell you. it should at least be a lot of fun. i'll keep ya updated

01-02-2005, 06:51 PM	#14
sambmx Pebble Pounder Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: orange county n.y. , building the hydro crawler Posts: 195	Re: new here, clutch question..... Ive run nitro and have gone back to electric, thers nothing like the torque of an electric motor and reduction crawling insane things and just not stoping until something breaks .If your still hell bent on nitro, (we just trying to help you not just being assholes because electrics the way to go and allways will be) look into building a manual clutch that you can operate from the controler. Its fairly easy to do with a nitro stadium truck tranny, some aluminum stock, and a few gears for a decent clutch and reduction. If i have the free time ill do a wright up on this for you if you would like. pm me.

01-02-2005, 07:30 PM	#15
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... check pm box

01-03-2005, 04:07 PM	#16
sambmx Pebble Pounder Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: orange county n.y. , building the hydro crawler Posts: 195	Re: new here, clutch question..... Im making one out of a maxx diff because everyone has a few and they seem plenty strong. Do you have any 1:1 wheeling/crawling experience? What the basic design is to build a pinion brake. The diff is used in a way that the imput power from the motor goes in one outdrive and power to the gear reduction/tranny comes out the other. When the pinion brake is locked power is directed through the internal diff spider gears and to the tranny. (clutch engaged) When the brake on the pinnion shaft is relesed it allows power to insted rotate the diff housing and pinnion.(clutch disengaged) It is a rather simple concept once you understand what in talking about.Pick up a diff and mess around with it and youll see what i mean. The pinnion brake would be operated like any other nitro brake with a servo. A must have would be lots of gear reduction because as the power flows through the spider gears the ratio is doubled. I would install 3 gd600s inline or custom make a gearbox is what id do to make up for the high revs of a nitro and doubling of ratio.

01-03-2005, 05:52 PM	#17
cman_1500w Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2004 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 662	Re: new here, clutch question..... I don't think anyone answered your original question about the sliding clutch. Here's a link. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149596.asp You can see that it's just 2 big clutch shoes that slide the opposite way from each other. With more surface area they grab better than most 3shoe clutches I've seen and is an excellent upgrade from the stock shoes the xfactor comes with. It has lasted a long time as well. Over a gallon run and it's still strong. This is the best r/c clutch to buy for the xfactor IMO. For rock crawling purposes you will need something better however.

01-03-2005, 06:29 PM	#18
Vitamin_J Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 388	Re: new here, clutch question..... yeah, i've seen those b4, just never knew what they were called. sambmx told me about making a clutch out of a differential. that sounds like it would work great. i'm just worried about mounting, hopefully i can find room

01-25-2005, 11:46 AM	#19
Junior Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4	X-Factor Manual Clutch I dont know if this sounds stupid but, here is an idea I have on the manual clutch idea. Use a bearing on a lever which is activated by a servo on its own channel. It could roll on the slipper clutch and when you engage the servo the slipper is then engaged like a real clutch. I will try this if any of you think it could work. I have an XF-2 with 8 shock set-up, diffs locked, modified savage tires and wheels, helicopter header tank, computer case fan for motor, JR 7 channel heli radio, independent 4WS, and 25% racing fuel. Still looking to drop the gear ration. Any advice or imput is appreciated.

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01-26-2005, 05:59 AM	#20
mremax Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tucson,Arizona Posts: 6	Hey Junior I would be interested in the out come of that!!! Let me know how it turns out .

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