Chassis welding questions and thoughts.

[Bob-Stormer]

I've been poking around a bit, and I guess I'm having a bit of trouble with all the folks that are using brake line and galvanized tubing, and taking a bit to lightly the dangers of "fume poisoning" from the zinc.

Firstly, brake line is flimsy. I haven't built enough of these to know if that's important yet or not. But I've been around enough galvanized to know better. Somebody really should post a tutorial on how to remove it, safely.

I did find this while scrounging around for a tutorial with some handy tips and some safety concerns.
http://aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=8089

Tonight I was piddling around thought I'd try some brazing on 1/8" spring steel wire. As I was getting out the oxy/acetylene I looked over at my TIG and thought what the heck. So I used my TIG torch to braze with. The 1/8 spring steel is TOUGH stuff, but I feel the brass is a bit flimsy. Never been a fan of brazing. But it does make a clean joint for a chassis.

So I thought I'd just try and TIG the 1/8" music wire together. That worked good, I may do that some more. kind of tricky, that's some small stuff.

I TIG'd another cage out of 1/4" aluminum solid stock, and that thing is rock hard as well. but the 1/4" looks a bit out of scale.

I've done a LOT of silver soldering with various scale stock car cages, and 1/24 slot car road race chassis and dragsters. And I like the look of silver solder, and it's good and strong. Makes a good looking joint.

I haven't tried to MIG anything yet, but I think it's the wrong tool for the job on this small stuff.

I read a bunch of the threads, but didn't really find a consensus. And as I don't really know who's a pro, and who isn't, what are the pro guys doing? Given that I can do any of the common methods, what methods are making the strongest frames with the best looking joints?

I just know I want to stay away from zinc coatings, for now.

Thanks for reading, and your thoughts.
-Bob

 

[grapegoat]

Most people here use brakeline. When braced right, I have seen 200 pound guys jump on there chassis with all there might. No problem. Hell, I built a chassis out of hot glue and plastic coat hangers once and I could stand on it. brakeline is easy to work with, cheap and easy to find. And it is mentioned In all of the "how to braze" threads I have seen on here that you need to remove the coating and braze in a well ventilated area. Thats day one, metal shop class stuff.

Thats a cool write up you did man. Sharing what different materials you experimented with, what method of welding and the results. Nice "thumbsup"

 

[Racer4Life]

Bob-Stormer...another convert. ;-) Nice to see you posting over here.

Liked you write up about your Eco freindly car on RCTECH.:lol:

There are several guys on here that can help you out. Check out the Vendor section to see what those guys are using. I know that Mr.Pink, Zorlac and K9popo / dezfan all have done some nice chassis.

Good luck."thumbsup"

Tom

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Hi guys, thanks for the replys.

I don't know that I'm a convert, per se. I've been lurking here for a long time, just decided to post. In our business, I get to dabble a bit with everything. Just seems that our dabbling maybe gets a bit overboard...

The scratch building and fabrication is what attracts me personally. It's what attracted me to RC truck pulling in the 80's. Also fighting robots, etc. But that got to be about who was the best fabricator, kind of like this, BUT, you get "wheel time" here. HOURS of it. Which makes crawling fun.

And unlike a fighting 'bots, the best vehicle doesn't destroy the lesser vehicle. I disliked that part of it (mercifully our bots were the destroyers), and kept building bots but didn't fight them anymore. Just for relaxation.

The brake tubing thing just worries me, even though there are people that feel that looking out for "fume poising" is like welding 101, there are a lot of rookies on here, that look up to the good fabricators. And some are whipping stuff up in their basements, bedrooms, etc. Not everybody knows about fume safety.

I wish I could find the link to it. Ian, from xtreme4x4 TV did a quick article on how to "soak" stuff, like washers and bolts in something that removed the zinc and made galvanized easily weldable without the fumes. Anybody aware of that link?

I'd maybe like to try brake lines again, it is easy to bend, and looks scale. But I want to be safe about it. I try'd to TIG it without much prep, and the surface is just to contaminated for TIG welding. I have a fume extractor, but still don't like to do it.

Anybody seen that link?

 

[ky_18b]

Here is a good read on this subject:
http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/articles/WeldingGalvanized.pdf

CLR will remove the zinc from galvanized steel
http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm

I believe a number of 'Rust Removers' will as well.

 

[SnoopMaxx]

The brake tubing thing just worries me, even though there are people that feel that looking out for "fume poising" is like welding 101, there are a lot of rookies on here, that look up to the good fabricators. And some are whipping stuff up in their basements, bedrooms, etc. Not everybody knows about fume safety.

"thumbsup"

I am a mashinist, fabricator and welder
I can honesty say that I have first hand knowligh of what i´s like to weld on zink plated / galvanized parts :sad:

In europeian cars they use mostly cobber tubing for brake line

I use 5mm 6mm and 8mm hydrolic steel tubing insted of galvanized brake line it´s stronger easier to finde in Europe and more fume friendly

"thumbsup"

 

[Grizzly4x4]

I weld my brakeline chassis' with a MIG welder. It takes a while to get good at it but once you do you can make some nice joints. The pics below show one of mine. I don't grind my joints either, those are raw welds. Not to say I don't grind if I really screw up though. :lol:
I really like my Century 110V welder with Argon and 0.024" wire for welding brakeline. It works really well with the heat turned way up.

I agree, the dangers are very important to understand. When using Galvanized brake line, I use a fan and only weld with the garage door or a window open. I also hold my breath until I finish a weld and pull my head away from the smoke.
I have found that Advance Auto Parts sells brake line that is painted (could be powder coated) and is much better to use once you sand the paint off.

 

[noRCal]

Im a welder at a fabrication/Iron work shop im i do weld galvi from time to time besides the spittin and spattering it aint to bad. There also was a study done i read that there i no long to affect from zink, all it does is make you feel shitty for a day or so ive never had anything more then a light headache from it.

 

[Stormin2u]

Is this the Bob Stormer of Stormer Hobbies?

 

[F250]

Hi Bob. I am a welder in an auto resto shop. I try to stay away from galvinized. Gives me heartburn something awful. I weld my tubers up with 3/16 solid rod with a mig running .024 wire. Works pretty good. Just a a little clean up with the dremel and your good to go. I can weld the brakeline, but it seems to flimsy to me. I would rather have a couple of hundred dollars of electronics protected by solid steel.

 

[mrpink]

I wish I could find the link to it. Ian, from xtreme4x4 TV did a quick article on how to "soak" stuff, like washers and bolts in something that removed the zinc and made galvanized easily weldable without the fumes. Anybody aware of that link?

he used muriatic acid.

p!nK

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Grizzly, you're making me want to try and MIG one now, very cool! I'm still old schooling it with Co2 on the MIG. Lot of guys here doing like a 35/65 mix of argon co2. They say it's a bit nicer. I've been going to add some Argon to my Mig stuff, I should try it. How much flow?

Snoop, good idea on the hydraulic tubing, I'm gonna look around a bit. Although, that's what break line is, but I suspect there are different versions of it. I did find some non-DOM stainless in about a .049 wall 3/16 that was only about $3 a foot. That might be cool, I might order up 10 feet of it and give it a shot. Stainless looks great TIG'd. Gets that rosey iridescent coloring thing going on.

Pink, have you tried muratic? I have no idea how it works. I remember the metal on the show coming out almost a black color, or very dark grey color. I wish I had paid more attention to that episode.

Stormin2U, Yep, same guy.

F250, I've got a welder we leave with just .024 in it. I should give that a try. You and you alone might get a kick out our Miller 175. I made a cord rack for it. I believe this welder has .030 in it. Bit of an F250 fan myself.

Lot of you guys are fabricators for a living and enjoy RC stuff for a hobby. I'm in the hobby business, my whole life at this point, and I fabricate for a hobby, I love metal.

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Here's my first attempt at 1/4" diameter aluminum. Just a "piddle" project. Didn't want to run the lexan body on my Axial.

I didn't want the little nerf bars, but they are out of necessity to protect my wiring. When a guy goes turtle around here, the other guys tend to make it their goal in life to pile on top for entertainment. You roll, you're gonna get driven on...

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Here's some silver solder work on really small cages for 1/24 scale slot drag cars. The quarter is for perspective.

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Here's an example of standard TIG with steel, and with a brazing rod. Little contamination, but useable. I think the contamination on the braze is the melted flux. That might chip off. TIG on 1/8" wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be. tough to get the torch in there though. I can see where the oxy/acetylene would be easier on certain wire and tubing.

Some of this is pretty crude, but it's just a test scrap. I'm trying to learn on this thin and small stuff. The miniature cage is just a gizmo to try welding procedures on. It's not anything in particular. Some rough stuff on there, but I learned a few important things about that size of material.

Gotta try a few things before you build the neat stuff.

2 braze joints on 1/8" music wire, or spring steel. Used TIG torch.

1 Steel joint one braze joint, both done with TIG. Bit of contamination, but will work. Braze is a little stronger than I remember it. Seems to be tough enough.

 

[F250]

Nice rack. I want a tig welder sooo bad so I could build aluminum frames! That 1/24 scale stuff is super nice work. To small for me.

 

[noRCal]

find a stick wleder and get a bottle of argon and a tig torch and start practicing for aluminum your gonna have to get a high frequincy box though. Not much tig in our show mostly mig and flux core, Tig is a blast to fawk around with.

 

[Bob-Stormer]

I really enjoy building little cages, hence my interest in what folks are trying, and this thread. I found this picture of cage I was working on for something like an IMCA modified. This is 1/8" spring steel, silver soldered.

 

[Stormin2u]

I really enjoy building little cages, hence my interest in what folks are trying, and this thread. I found this picture of cage I was working on for something like an IMCA modified. This is 1/8" spring steel, silver soldered.

Hey Stormer, Norm Mead from Minneapolis we raced 1/12th scale about a billion years ago. We crossed paths often threw the Minot gang.
I see your still producing some real trick stuff.
I'm doing RC again after a bunch of years doing 1:1 stuff.
Good to see you on RCC.......Norm

 

[Bob-Stormer]

Hey Stormer, Norm Mead from Minneapolis we raced 1/12th scale about a billion years ago. We crossed paths often threw the Minot gang.
I see your still producing some real trick stuff.
I'm doing RC again after a bunch of years doing 1:1 stuff.
Good to see you on RCC.......Norm

NORM !!! "thumbsup"

1988-1989 wasn't that long ago... was it? 8)

Minot, still going strong. They had a little 24x70 club track for the last 3 years, now moved on to 36x90. Lucky dogs.

Good to hear from you.
-Bob