Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
The scale Michelins didn't have the potential to be a dominant tire in scale comps.
Someone mentioned they thought banning Flashpoints was not a good decision. I simply explained why that MAY have been done.
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why does everybody hate on PitBulls on Scalers?
- Thread starter EvilTwin v2
- Start date
The scale Michelins didn't have the potential to be a dominant tire in scale comps.
Someone mentioned they thought banning Flashpoints was not a good decision. I simply explained why that MAY have been done.
War Pig
I wanna be Dave
this turned hot quick.
I knew this would go downhill fast.
justinart24
I wanna be Dave
Offroader5
Picky Fab'r/Acetal Junky
I'm not saying the "scale" Michelins we have for our RC rigs were dominant.
You said:
"Someone mentioned Flashpoints earlier. They are modeled after a heavy duty tire designed for multi-axle truck use. I think they should be legal on those types of rigs only, not on more conventional 4x4's. But rather than make specifications like that, it's easier to simply remove it from competition. That's what our club did."
The 53" Michelins are a heavy duty tire meant for multi-axle trucks in the 1:1 world....my point was that in the real world, there are plenty of people out there running them on a trail rigs they were never meant to run on.
I'm wondering why a "potential dominent tire" would be banned in a comp? Wouldn't that mean that everyone should also then ban the more dominent tires in the 2.2 class?
I'm not trying to be difficult, so maybe I should be putting more smilies...but I'm just wondering where the line gets drawn.
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
I'm not saying the "scale" Michelins we have for our RC rigs were dominant.
You said:
"Someone mentioned Flashpoints earlier. They are modeled after a heavy duty tire designed for multi-axle truck use. I think they should be legal on those types of rigs only, not on more conventional 4x4's. But rather than make specifications like that, it's easier to simply remove it from competition. That's what our club did."
The 53" Michelins are a heavy duty tire meant for multi-axle trucks in the 1:1 world....my point was that in the real world, there are plenty of people out there running them on a trail rigs they were never meant to run on.
I'm wondering why a "potential dominent tire" would be banned in a comp? Wouldn't that mean that everyone should also then ban the more dominent tires in the 2.2 class?
I'm not trying to be difficult, so maybe I should be putting more smilies...but I'm just wondering where the line gets drawn.
Honestly, at this point, I'm hesitant to even reply to any more discussion in this thread. What I can share is what we discussed as officers in our own club.
We saw more people around the country using the Flashpoints on smaller rigs and they didn't really look scale to us....such as on Toyotas and Jeeps scaled to be running ~36" tires. The problem is that this tire is a realistic option for huge military/trials trucks. But it was a great performer so guys with regular 1.9 4x4s were using them anyway. If we left the Flashpoints legal, we believed that eventually people will choose this less scale option for their 4x4 than a more scale alternative that perhaps didn't perform as well. Maybe this would've happened, maybe not.
The scale Michelins were left alone simply because their performance wasn't dominant so regular 4x4 guys weren't tempted to run them so it was a non-issue. Anyway, it's what our club did. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not saying it couldn't be done better. It's just what we, as a club, did.
I'm not sure that makes any sense 'cause right now my brain feels like mush so I'm sure I'm not making my point very eloquently.....but it made sense at the time.
if you need them.
I dont think you are biased. I know you even if you didnt know anyone you would still like those tires.
Just joking man. I'll get them to you with the axles.
Pitbulls generaly are wide tires. Just saying.
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
Very true and in all honesty, I'm still in shock when I see the "big" Pit Bulls in person because they almost seem disproportionately wide! So I probably just need to "re-tune" my eyes when I see them.
Scale is so hard to define and thats what makes deciding rules so hard. I mean really, what is scale? You can get a picture of just about any 1:1 in any configuration you want on the internet. Does this mean it looks right or good. My answer is no. There seems to be 2 maybe 3 type of scale builders.
1. The guy/girl that wants the most realistic scaler possible, this person will compromise performance for a more scale look.
2. The guy that doesnt really care how scale it looks as long as it crawls almost or as good as a comp crawler, this person will compromise scale appearance for better performance.
3. The somewhere in between guy that will compromise a little scale appearance and a little in performance to create a very capable scaler.
The Rules will never be able to please every one.
I think it sucks that there is so much conflict over scale tires, we have more choices now than ever and it seems like the more we have the more we complain.
I think it is awesome that pit bull made these tires, Do I think they are scale? No I don't, but probally half the scalers I see aren't scale.
Flame ON.
1. The guy/girl that wants the most realistic scaler possible, this person will compromise performance for a more scale look.
2. The guy that doesnt really care how scale it looks as long as it crawls almost or as good as a comp crawler, this person will compromise scale appearance for better performance.
3. The somewhere in between guy that will compromise a little scale appearance and a little in performance to create a very capable scaler.
The Rules will never be able to please every one.
I think it sucks that there is so much conflict over scale tires, we have more choices now than ever and it seems like the more we have the more we complain.
I think it is awesome that pit bull made these tires, Do I think they are scale? No I don't, but probally half the scalers I see aren't scale.
Flame ON.
A good reason why 3 classes is something to seriously consider. "thumbsup"
It is unfortunate, but such is the nature of taking something done for fun and turning it into an organized competition.
Not many people spend the time to build a true scale rig. I think the Rock Beasts have their place in the scale world, in a Top Truck Challenge type class where a balance between performance and looks is encouraged..:twisted: and crap like shovels and firewood are penalized. :mrgreen:
BBCorvette18
Pebble Pounder
Hopefully Pitbull will get this feedback If they built a closed lug 4.5" tall 1.7"-2" wide 1.9 tire I'd buy them in a heartbeat. If they stick to open lug I will not. I don't think any open lug tire should be allowed in scale for the simple fact there are no 1:1 tires that are open lug.
Flashpoints being banned is ridiculous but it's their club and their rules so they can do whatever they want.
As far as a national banned tire list yes you update it frequently. When a new tire comes out that is border line the national rules committee discusses it and goes from there.
Flashpoints being banned is ridiculous but it's their club and their rules so they can do whatever they want.
As far as a national banned tire list yes you update it frequently. When a new tire comes out that is border line the national rules committee discusses it and goes from there.
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dezfan
I wanna be Dave
All this from a question about the Pit Bulls.:ror:
I would love to see scale rules established, but this kind of proves my suspicion that it is going to be very "interesting" to watch it play out.
I just can't see "the strict rule Nazis" and the "let it fly" factions finding much in the way of a middle ground.
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EvilTwin v2
I wanna be Dave
Dezfan, I couldn't agree more.
I'm curious to see how such topics will be handled.
My concern is that they won't easily come to a reasonable agreement and the project will end up ditched before it's ever finished.
I'm curious to see how such topics will be handled.
My concern is that they won't easily come to a reasonable agreement and the project will end up ditched before it's ever finished.
It'll be no different than making USRCCA 2.2 class rules or 1.9 class rules. Eventually it comes to a vote and majority wins.
:lmao:Hahaha, oh my...sorry about that. :ror:Grizz...I resemble that remark... :mrgreen:
And this is why I took the rules for Utah and tweaked them to where they are at today. To many personal opinions to make everyone happy. No right or wrong, just to expansive to find a solution that works for everyone.
I banned them as well as all comp based tires and our club has been for the most part, happy about it.
Lets face it, tires are so good now, that the Trail rigs we have today are as good or better than the 2.2 comp rigs that we had 3 years ago. I wanted to stay as far away from that phenominon as possible, so we buttoned up the rules in many areas, one being the tire ban list.
8)
I banned them as well as all comp based tires and our club has been for the most part, happy about it.
Lets face it, tires are so good now, that the Trail rigs we have today are as good or better than the 2.2 comp rigs that we had 3 years ago. I wanted to stay as far away from that phenominon as possible, so we buttoned up the rules in many areas, one being the tire ban list.
8)
bsn
Quarry Creeper
I'm building my new rig off of them. 1.9 rox lox looked like 33's under it!
Will be on narrower rims and better foams.
Show me a rig that is running a tire that is as wide as half the truck and sticks out that far? Then we may consider it looking scale.
Oh and thats probably the best classification. Does it look scale? Stop the math or it was models after a scale rig. Take one look at the picture from Scale Nationals and you will know what scale is. Yea, you have the extremes at each end but the people that want to run scale will fall in the middle.
Call it personal integrety. If you have to sit down and come up with all the reasons it should be considered scale, it probably isn't. Same as if you have to come up with all the reasons you are right, you were probably wrong. (I learned this after I got married.)
C*H*U*D
No idea what I'm doing
That's two posts tonight where I have read about you bashing shovels and firewood...
I think you are anti-shovel and firewood.
:mrgreen:
bsn
Quarry Creeper
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