• Welcome to RCCrawler Forums.

    It looks like you're enjoying RCCrawler's Forums but haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members, and much more. Register now!

    Already a member? Login at the top of this page to stop seeing this message.

Alcoholism: Disease or Not?

Duuuuuuuude

Suck it up!
Moderator
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
11,649
Location
Arkansas
First and foremost: let me be clear that I am in no way undermining the struggle, pain, and destruction that alcoholics and their families and friends are faced with. It is serious business, and I treat it as such. While I am fortunate enough to not personally have such a terrible condition, I had a family member who did. After several trips to treatment centers my sis-in-law lost that battle, and her life, 10 years ago at the very young age of 32. The pain of her death is still felt and has caused an everlasting rift in my wifes family. I know what alcoholism is capable of.


On to the topic at hand, is alcoholism a disease? The medical community says so, thousands of treatment centers say so, and billions of dollars paid out to those centers seems to reinforce the idea, but is it really, honestly, and truly a disease?

We'll start with some history. I'll save my opinions until later.

The conception of this yet unnamed condition being a disease was made by a doctor and politician by the name of Dr. Benjamin Rush, who used his theory to bolster his prohibitionist stance in the early 1800's. It is also interesting to note that he also classified dishonesty, political dissension, and being of African American descent as diseases. This train of thought carried through into the 1900's with other like minded politicians and prohibitionists.

In 1849 Magnus Huss, a Swedish physician, coined the term "alcoholism" and determined it to be a disease.

Then in 1946 E. Morton Jelinek published a study to further the concept of this disease into the medical community. The study was funded by two AA members, and the information therein was gathered from people who were also AA members. There was much controversy surrounding the study, and in later years it was determined to be almost completely fraudulent and skewed to reflect the agenda of the funders of the study, one of which was Marty Mann. Jelinek also published a book based on those studies, which is surprisingly still used today to diagnose alcoholism. It was also later determined that he had lied about his educational and medical background to gain acceptance from the medical community, and to further fund his research.

Marty Mann was a wealthy socialite party girl, who became the first female member of AA after a failed suicide attempt. She was instrumental in removing the public notion of alcoholism being a personal choice and placing it into the category of a disease. This resulted in an increase in funding for her own organization, the National Counsel for Alcoholism.

Mrs. Mann is tied to the founder of the National Institute for Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse, who also funded and used the fraudulent finding of Jelineks research to lobby for and procure insurance payments for those admitted to his own treatment centers. The 28 day treatment program was born. Today it is a multi-billion dollar industry.

In 1964 the AMA bumped alcoholism from an "illness" up to a "disease". They then as now use Jelineks fraudulent research as a basis for their decision.

Most recently genetics has come into play, though each time an answer is supposedly found, it is almost immediately refuted. There is still no known genetic link to alcoholism.
 
Last edited:
Apply whatever semantic based word you want to it. It's fawked up any way you break it down.

My dad is an alcoholic, I grew up around it which is one reason I rarely drink, and only have a couple when I do.

I don't really care how it is labeled, disease, addiction, affliction, what have you.... It can destroy lives and families. My best wishes to all who suffer from alcoholism and even more so to those who are affected by the alcoholic.
 
ohh man, my wife works in mental health and we've had some very similar discussions... we generally do not agree on these issues.

Can a disease be something that you have brought on yourself?

M-W.com - Disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms.

I say no, not a disease.
If you could develop alcoholism through no fault of your own, like sitting on a public toilet seat ;-), then yes it would be a disease.

But, since a person makes a choice to drink, I do not see it as a disease.

I do believe that people can be, and many are, predisposed to becoming alcoholics.
I also think that you can contract a disease due to, or connected to alcoholism.
 
Can a disease be something that you have brought on yourself?

I look at it the same way as smoking and lung disease, it is a condition that is avoidable, but obtained by people's actions and not do to genetics or environmental factors.

Because of genetics, some people are more susceptible to lung disease and alcoholism.
 
Last edited:
not a disease

I feel very strongly it is NOT a disease. AIDS and Cancer are diseases, you can't just stop having AIDS, but you can stop drinking alcahol pretty easily. I know peoples bodys become dependant on it, but it isn't a disease, its substance abuse. If alcaholism is a disease, then so is a heroine addiction or cocaine, or smoking pot on a regular basis. I don't have Marijuana'ism, I just like to smoke weed, I have alcaholic friends, but they are not afflicted with a disease, they just drink a LOT.

Alcaholism is hereditary, many people argue that makes it a disease, but it really doesn't. You can't get alcaholism thru fluid transfuson from someone with alcaholism. If an alcaholic sneezes on you, you won't come down with alcaholism for a few days, it isn't even, to me, comparable to a cold, its a habbit.

Someone declaring it a disease in 1849 doesn't hold much weight today, we did a lot of things in the 1800's that were wrong, people back then were not very intelligent. One of the initial reasons marijuana was made illegal is it was found to give people "hommicidal tendancies", I have never experianced this, and I don't know a single person who has, you don't see violent stoned ever, people do you? They tested it on crazy people, that's why they acted crazy.

Got a little off topic but I had to compare tangelo's to tangerines.
 
impressive... you can cut and paste as well as my 11 year old.

tickle goolge a bit more on the D2 receptor and the GABRG3 gene. although they do not cause the alcoholism, they are highly influential. they are close to linking GABA just have not done so yet. they have in other studies linked GABA to other dependencies, just not to alcoholism. so yes there is no direct documentation to reveal alcoholism's relation to genetics. that will not be possible until we scan of the entire human genome and characterize piece by piece, the entire length of DNA and find genes that relate to alcoholism, without proposing candidate genes.

it has been declared a disease no matter how much you try to discredit the AMA.
you got a little cocky with your findings and forgot to add that in 1991, the AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.

so just because you found a bunch of term papers and supporting ideas, you can't displace the fact that it is classified as a disease even though it's not genetics.

here's my cut and paste:

The term disease broadly refers to any condition that impairs normal function. Commonly, this term is used to refer specifically to infectious diseases, which are clinically evident diseases that result from the presence of pathogenic microbial agents, including viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, multicellular organisms, and aberrant proteins known as prions. An infection that does not and will not produce clinically evident impairment of normal functioning, such as the presence of the normal bacteria and yeasts in the gut, is not considered a disease; by contrast, an infection that is asymptomatic during its incubation period, but expected to produce symptoms later, is usually considered a disease. Non-infectious diseases are all other diseases, including most forms of cancer, heart disease, and genetic disease.

disease
- 6 dictionary results
dis·ease
   /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled [dih-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas·ing.
–noun
1.
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2.
any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3.
any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
EXPAND
4.
decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
COLLAPSE
–verb (used with object)
5.
to affect with disease; make ill.
Use disease in a Sentence
See images of disease
Search disease on the Web
Origin:
1300–50; Middle English disese < Anglo-French dese(a)se, disaise; see dis-1, ease

—Related forms
dis·eas·ed·ly, adverb
dis·eas·ed·ness, noun

—Synonyms
1. morbidity, complaint, derangement, distemper, indisposition, infirmity, disorder, malady.

—Antonyms
1. health. 5. cure.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.
Cite This Source
|
Link To disease
World English Dictionary
disease (dɪˈziːz) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

—n
1. any impairment of normal physiological function affecting all or part of an organism, esp a specific pathological change caused by infection, stress, etc, producing characteristic symptoms; illness or sickness in general
2. a corresponding condition in plants
3. any situation or condition likened to this: the disease of materialism

Related: pathological

[C14: from Old French desaise; see dis-1, ease]

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Cite This Source
Word Origin & History

disease
early 14c., "discomfort," from O.Fr. desaise, from des- "without, away" (see dis-) + aise "ease" (see ease). Sense of "sickness, illness" first recorded late 14c.; the word still sometimes was used in its lit. sense early 17c. Related: Diseased.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source
Medical Dictionary

dis·ease definition
Pronunciation: /diz-ˈēz/
Function: n
: an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors : SICKNESS ILLNESS called also morbus compare HEALTH 1,
dis·easedPronunciation: /-ˈēzd/
Function: adj
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source

disease dis·ease (dĭ-zēz')
n.
A pathological condition of a body part, an organ, or a system resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source
Encyclopedia

disease

a harmful deviation from the normal structural or functional state of an organism. A diseased organism commonly exhibits signs or symptoms indicative of its abnormal state. Thus, the normal condition of an organism must be understood in order to recognize the hallmarks of disease. Nevertheless, a sharp demarcation between disease and health is not always apparent
 
Can a disease be something that you have brought on yourself?
Yes. There are quite a few cancers that are not genetic and are "caused" by actions of the person.

As for alcoholism being a disease.....no more so than smoking cigarettes. Some folks might have a "genetic predisposition" for drinking, but I believe that to be more of a "predisposition" for addiction, they just happen to see family members consume alcohol frequently and focus their predisposition on that.
 
I install breathalyzers in DUI offender's vehicles. I consider "alcoholism" a poor management in personal responsibility. Enjoyed in moderation and recreation, I have no problem with it. I love my micro brews and odd concoctions of homemade hooch. When someone enjoys them to the point that their consumption consumes them, its a problem. The body then requires the alcohol to maintain "normalcy" and next thing ya know, its a 12 pack to face the day. I have no sympathy for people that get like that, only those around them that have to deal with it.

I have yet to meet another fellow beer snob that is "addicted" to alcohol. We merely prefer quality over quantity. I wouldn't drink beer in cans if they were free.:flipoff:
 
impressive... you can cut and paste as well as my 11 year old.

When I copy and paste I will either put it in quotations or provide a link to the source. The info I provided was typed in, and a bit of research of all parties involved was done. Admittedly it is an incomplete history, but I was focused more on the origins of its classification.

you got a little cocky with your findings and forgot to add that in 1991, the AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.

And both of those groups profit greatly from their endorsements. Seeing the how's and why's of alcoholism being classified as a disease should allow you to understand how I would come to that conclusion.

so just because you found a bunch of term papers and supporting ideas, you can't displace the fact that it is classified as a disease even though it's not genetics.

Saying something is doesn't make it so. I could start a worldwide movement and successfully change the name of corn to 'potato', but that won't change the fact that its still corn.
 
I have no sympathy for people that get like that, only those around them that have to deal with it.

Then you have never met or dealt with an addict. Some people for whatever reason simply have a loss of control when it comes to certain substances. It may be physiological, it may be psychological, but it happens. To say it is their fault is not entirely untrue, they have that choice, but it is not always an easy or clear choice to make. Addiction is not a cut and dry condition, there are many variables that bring it into force.
 
Yes. There are quite a few cancers that are not genetic and are "caused" by actions of the person.

As for alcoholism being a disease.....no more so than smoking cigarettes. Some folks might have a "genetic predisposition" for drinking, but I believe that to be more of a "predisposition" for addiction, they just happen to see family members consume alcohol frequently and focus their predisposition on that.

cause and effect.
Jeremy, I believe we are saying the same thing.
 
ohh man, my wife works in mental health and we've had some very similar discussions... we generally do not agree on these issues.

Can a disease be something that you have brought on yourself?

M-W.com - Disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms.

I say no, not a disease.
If you could develop alcoholism through no fault of your own, like sitting on a public toilet seat ;-), then yes it would be a disease.

But, since a person makes a choice to drink, I do not see it as a disease.

I do believe that people can be, and many are, predisposed to becoming alcoholics.
I also think that you can contract a disease due to, or connected to alcoholism.

I feel very strongly it is NOT a disease. AIDS and Cancer are diseases, you can't just stop having AIDS, but you can stop drinking alcahol pretty easily. I know peoples bodys become dependant on it, but it isn't a disease, its substance abuse. If alcaholism is a disease, then so is a heroine addiction or cocaine, or smoking pot on a regular basis. I don't have Marijuana'ism, I just like to smoke weed, I have alcaholic friends, but they are not afflicted with a disease, they just drink a LOT.

Alcaholism is hereditary, many people argue that makes it a disease, but it really doesn't. You can't get alcaholism thru fluid transfuson from someone with alcaholism. If an alcaholic sneezes on you, you won't come down with alcaholism for a few days, it isn't even, to me, comparable to a cold, its a habbit.

Someone declaring it a disease in 1849 doesn't hold much weight today, we did a lot of things in the 1800's that were wrong, people back then were not very intelligent. One of the initial reasons marijuana was made illegal is it was found to give people "hommicidal tendancies", I have never experianced this, and I don't know a single person who has, you don't see violent stoned ever, people do you? They tested it on crazy people, that's why they acted crazy.

Got a little off topic but I had to compare tangelo's to tangerines.

Yes. There are quite a few cancers that are not genetic and are "caused" by actions of the person.

As for alcoholism being a disease.....no more so than smoking cigarettes. Some folks might have a "genetic predisposition" for drinking, but I believe that to be more of a "predisposition" for addiction, they just happen to see family members consume alcohol frequently and focus their predisposition on that.

This all pretty much sums it up for me.

An just to be clear, search around and you will find that the medical community as a whole does not all agree that addictions of any sort are diseases. The AMA doesn't represent the beliefs and opinions of all people in the medical community in the entire world much less the US.

People tend to want to classify addictions as a disease to gain something from it be it sympathy or something else. This coming from a former addict.

I actually had a friend who went through AA tell me I wasn't really addicted because I didn't go through AA or a similar type program to beat my addiction. This all based in that "disease" mentality. I think the real issue was something deeper and her not understanding the way in which I dealt with it. She also can't understand how I as an addict can drink and not want to get drunk. I no longer feel the desire for getting loaded in any way due to the fact I dealt with the core issues at hand. I can't even stand the feeling that Vicodin gives me when I have had to take it for medical reasons. Many "former addicts" really haven't dealt with the core issues which caused their addictions which is why you see relapses etc. The addiction itself is nothing but a symptom of a more major issue. If you only treat the symptom of the issue then you will never actually correct the problem.

It's hard to go into my own personal journey deep enough in this type of setting to illustrate my points so I will stop here. I can say though that it was a lengthy process and took much more than 12 steps or even 1 year to get to the core of and correct.

Addictions are hell by all means for many of us but let us by no means mistake them or incorrectly classify them as a "disease".
 
Yes. There are quite a few cancers that are not genetic and are "caused" by actions of the person.

But you cannot ingest cancer like you can other harmful substances. You can certainly expose yourself to things that make it a possibility, but you aren't going to go and whip up a big bowl of cancerous cells for breakfast.
 
It's 'almost' like one of those "what came first, the egg or the chicken"? type questions.
Addiction is a mental disorder, it is classified as a "physical and psychological dependance", so yes, it is a disease.
Any kind of addiction can be bad for your health, and taken to the extreme it can be fatal.
Alcohol, Tobacco an Drugs are the most well known addictions, Tobacco and Illegal Drug use, have been the focus of health advocacy groups who have demonized and criminalized the use and abuse of these substances, while Alcohol, for the most part, has been given a pass and is glorified and promoted in advertisements and is seen as a normal acceptable activity.
We have been conditioned to believe Alcohol use is not a health risk, and if you can't control your intake or you become addicted, it's because your'e weak and a worthless person, but if you smoke or take drugs your'e an evil criminal, bent on destroying society and everything it stands for.
 
I actually had a friend who went through AA tell me I wasn't really addicted because I didn't go through AA or a similar type program to beat my addiction.
That's funny. When I was younger I was certainly addicted to smoking (~1.5 ppd for quite a few years) and I was able to stop on my own, no patches, no medications, cold turkey. The manner in which you quit doesn't define your level of addiction, merely your will power...
 
We have been conditioned to believe Alcohol use is not a health risk, and if you can't control your intake or you become addicted, it's because your'e weak and a worthless person, but if you smoke or take drugs your'e an evil criminal, bent on destroying society and everything it stands for.

Alcohol is not a health risk if used in moderation much like many things.

As for society thinking you are worthless person because of addiction I find that patently false. Some may believe that but using it as a blanket statement is dishonest at best.
 
But you cannot ingest cancer like you can other harmful substances. You can certainly expose yourself to things that make it a possibility, but you aren't going to go and whip up a big bowl of cancerous cells for breakfast.
Directly? No. Indirectly? Yes.
 
Back
Top