Sorry, guess I didnt get your point then.
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2013 Rules
- Thread starter Fishmaxx
- Start date
To be clear, I'm not speaking for WestCoast (though I am a member). When I said "local" I meant hometown. The stuff I posted was just FWIW. But it does seem like most everyone else is of a similar mind.
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Basically it means you can back out once you go in, in the intended direction.
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
just a few items to make sure i watched the video in the right context.
so your gate normal direction is left to right i take it.
your font tires entered and went through the gate. your rear tire entered the gate but did not pass the back plane of the gate so no progress yet?
corect at this point?
then you take a reverse to stadle and therefore reposition on the gate. while doing this you have successfully exited the gate for an additional attemp,
but...
you then enter the gate in the wrong direction to ultimately flip the truck over getting the rear tires to go through the gate in the right direction?
still correct at this point?
i would say you never got progress on the gate so the gate is still live and in that meaning has to be completed in the correct order and direction.
as you reversed and peeled off the gate before "progressing" the gate you effectivly started your second attempt at the gate but you in fact entered in the wrong direction.
as a judge there would be no question in my mind...time stop repo take you points.
wording in rule 1.10 clearly states all four tires must pass completely through the gate during the "SAME" attempt and in the intended course direction.
allthough it is really clever i think your understanding is wrong.
so your gate normal direction is left to right i take it.
your font tires entered and went through the gate. your rear tire entered the gate but did not pass the back plane of the gate so no progress yet?
corect at this point?
then you take a reverse to stadle and therefore reposition on the gate. while doing this you have successfully exited the gate for an additional attemp,
but...
you then enter the gate in the wrong direction to ultimately flip the truck over getting the rear tires to go through the gate in the right direction?
still correct at this point?
i would say you never got progress on the gate so the gate is still live and in that meaning has to be completed in the correct order and direction.
as you reversed and peeled off the gate before "progressing" the gate you effectivly started your second attempt at the gate but you in fact entered in the wrong direction.
as a judge there would be no question in my mind...time stop repo take you points.
wording in rule 1.10 clearly states all four tires must pass completely through the gate during the "SAME" attempt and in the intended course direction.
allthough it is really clever i think your understanding is wrong.
Thats what I did in the video. I went in the intended direction and then went back in. Thats why I asked if you guys would be better off if in the video that I backed in and did the flip rather than pulled in forwards and back flipped.
If you cut out the middle part where I correct the car drive around etc,. etc,. its no different than attempting the line, car flopping around and getting totally offline, you back all the way out and then drive through. And before you say it, there is no rule that I can find that says you cant flop around, reverse the cars direction or anything else from where you enter the gate to the point of progressing a gate.
Correct.
Correct.
It was completed in the correct order (after gate 1) and direction (from left to right).
This is where the whole problem is. There is no definition of "entering" or "exiting" how many times you have to do it or when you have to do it. I just says
"Any part of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction"
however, if I cannot do it in the video, you should not be able to reverse through it unless you have progressed it either.
Obviously I am looking deeper into it, finding a loop hole and going with it. I think people find loop holes in more obvious ways all the time though and we feel that its more acceptable sometimes than others. I think this situation is 100% legal but I think it takes away the spirt of the gate and that is what is making people mad. For the record, I dont think it should be legal, I dont think you should be able to straddle and then reverse the car and then get the tire that was outside, inside and progress/no gate. I think the whole rule needs re written but until then, I cant find anything that says its illegal, period.
This helps me see what I think you guys are seeing which is that you have to enter the gate in the correct direction on each attempt. Which I think is morally true and maybe even assumed, but it is not in the rules.
HARDKNOCKZ
Its a HARDKNOCKZ Life...
As Bill stated...hes not speaking on how we (WCRCC) run comps or interpret the rules. Id like to think we dont interpret the rules at all & run our comps based on those laid down by the USRCCA. Notice I said LIKE TO. ;-)
Ive never seen anyone attempt a progress like you've shown & honestly...cant think of an instance where you'd NEED to. Not that it doesn't exist. Guys like you whos brains are always turning like to find the holes in things so I reckon its good you bring em up.
That being said...Based on what I see in the video...Id stop the clock, repo you & give you your points. Just as Jeremy said...from my point of view, you've now made 2 attempts at progress. The 1st would simply get you a reverse but the 2nd is a direction violation.
JD
It was an actual gate in our comp this last weekend. There was trouble clearing it clean so naturally any decent driver would look at taking it a bit different way.
Where does it say EACH attempt has to be driven in the correct direction without the car getting off line?
"Any part of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction"
If the above is what you say, again..... you cannot reverse once your fronts are past the gates without getting the same penalty. It goes both ways.
There are all different ways to look at this too. I could have made it so my fronts never left the path of the two gates and then done the same thing all without never letting off the throttle. Then what? Its the same attempt but then you're going to say that the rear was off line? So now you cant get your rears out of the gate plains or its going the wrong way?
I just dont understand why its just hunky dory to be able to drive just one axle the wrong direction but you cant do it with two of them. Because its different attempts? Show me where it says it in the rules.
If its not illegal, its legal.
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Reversing once your properly entered is NOT entering in the wrong direction.
What if I would have driven my car in, neither front tire goes between the gates, 1 rear does. I then take a reverse through the gate correcting all 4 tires, back flip and get progress. Its ok then?
EXACTLY!
I had my front and rears properly entered and I am not even 100% that I needed to properly enter my rears. Just any part of the car should have worked.
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
At the same time?
Yeah, front and rears were entered properly at the same time.
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Before the backflip?
Watch the video.
:18 sec, both front progress, 1 rear has entered.
:18 sec, both front progress, 1 rear has entered.
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
but you completely left the "gate" as defined by the picture in the rulebook
or the area in between the gates, front plane to rear plane.
and started your second attempt in the wrong direction.
stop time,repo, take your points"thumbsup"
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Entering the correct way then backing out does not make it ok to then go thru the gate the wrong way, only after a gate is progressed can it be traveled in any direction.
Picture and the description showing "leaving the gate"?
The rules do not say anything about entering it every time.
If you pull up to a gate and get your front tires through and the instant you start reversing is when another attempt would be considered but you still get to go backwards through the gate at that point according to you.... You definitely would not be attempting the same progress while reversing.
Please show me the rule that backs this statement up. I 100% understand this is how you FEEL and understand the rules, but its a loop hole, for sure.
You guys are basically saying that its cool to go the wrong direction with 1 axle but to do both axles is a rule infraction.
This could all be cleared up and swept under the rug if the rules said "To get progress with no gate penalty all 4 tires must enter the gate in the correct direction and go between the gates without touching or floating over them."
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Another attempt begins when all parts of your rig are out of the gate. If you pull your fronts through and reverse out that is all one attempt until the rig is totally clear of the gate. Inside of the gate being front plane, rear plane and between the markers.
Shoot. The answer was already in the thread.
Are you making this up or do you have something in the rules to quote?
I dont understand how you could be attempting to progress a gate when your car is headed in the opposite direction.....?
So, going by what you said above, if I would have dont the exact same move only kept one front tire with in the gates planes, that would have been legit?
