Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

[DavidH]

I’d like to see better proof for the Big Bang theory,

Science does not do proof, but I would recommend that you first get a well-grounded understanding of the theory, and by the time you do that you'll see what evidence supports it. It did take me a fair amount of time to get even a laymen's understanding of it, particularly of inflation theory. An internet forum is not where you are going to get that kind of education.

or even why God is fake,

I don't know if your god is fake, I only know that for every god concept presented to me to date, it has not been demonstrated to be anything but imagined.

and what goes against the evidence.

This varies wildly from religionist to religionist. For example, many Christians accept modern biology, cosmology, physics, etc. while others think (correctly) that if modern biology accurately describes what we know of how living things work, then there was no ride on the ark and no Adam and Eve, and the Earth has to be billions of years old (to allow for the level of diversity we see), and the cosmos even older (to allow for the formation of our solar system). And then there are all the variations in between.

All of this science is testable and falsifiable, so the burden would be on you to show that your interpretation of your religious texts (that I can only guess at) has greater explanatory power for the observed evidence than the scientific theories that have been developed to date.

But, it's so much easier for the religionist to fall back on the 'science is bogus' routine.

 

[StomperCrawler]

“And when you tell this people all these words, and they say to you, ‘Why has the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? What is our iniquity? What is the sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?’ then you shall say to them: ‘Because your fathers have forsaken me, declares the LORD, and have gone after other gods and have served and worshiped them, and have forsaken me and have not kept my law, and because you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, every one of you follows his stubborn, evil will, refusing to listen to me."

 

[DavidH]

“And when you tell this people all these words, and they say to you, ‘Why has the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? What is our iniquity? What is the sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?’ then you shall say to them: ‘Because your fathers have forsaken me, declares the LORD, and have gone after other gods and have served and worshiped them, and have forsaken me and have not kept my law,

So we are being held responsible for things beyond our control. That is morally bankrupt.

If you care about things like that.

and because you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, every one of you follows his stubborn, evil will, refusing to listen to me."

"Refusing" implies intent.

I cannot ever recall refusing to listen to anything other than rap 'music' and Korean K-pop.

Tell me exactly how I am to make the determination that you are "listening" to this god and not simply imagining it, since you are not offering any objective evidence for the existence of gods.

 

[CREEPERBOB]

You should read legit bible scholars such as Bart Ehrman...


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Scholars,,,,,,:roll:, men.

 

[CREEPERBOB]

Bob,
Clearly your definition of good is different from mine.

Hmmm, good, what is good.

 

[CREEPERBOB]

Before either of you respond further in this thread, could you answer this for me:

Hypothetically, if you knew that I had seen a child being raped, and had the ability to interfere, would you hold me responsible for standing by, allowing it to happen, and saying nothing to anyone about it?

Does your morality say that I should have interfered?

Wow, ya got a wild imagination..
How or what has raping a child got to do with faith in my Elohim?

 

[CREEPERBOB]

Those who decline to believe and demand believers "prove" the existence of our Elohim.
I have been commanded (asked) to share my testimony of what I have freely received to those who haven't heard and to not be unequally yoked with unbeliever

Now, I'm going to get a little bit religious.
In John 19:30, probably the most relevant 3 words in the entire Bible concerning the Bible it self and the New Covenant with all men.
"It is finished"
Yashua said these last 3 words to set in motion salvation for everyone who would "belive".
There has been zero prophets since that day, zero new revelations since that day, for on that day "it is finished:.
The Bible, Elohim's instruction to "His people", is enough for me to stand on by faith and choose to try to live my life in line with His teachings.
I believe and no naysayers or unbelievers will in any way detract me from decision.
I don't feel a need to boast or argue about my personal walk with my Father as He has revealed Himself to me continually.

Matthew 22:14 says it best, "Many are called but few are chosen".

 

[spaceman5280]

Scholars,,,,,,:roll:, men.

Why do you fear reality?



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[Teng]

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them.[d] 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell[e] as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the sanctuary is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gold of the sanctuary is bound by the oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the sanctuary that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gift that is on the altar is bound by the oath.’ 19 How blind you are! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; 21 and whoever swears by the sanctuary, swears by it and by the one who dwells in it; 22 and whoever swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by the one who is seated upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!

Matthew 23



25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup,[f] so that the outside also may become clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. 28 So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

[ThatJeeper2017]

Science does not do proof, but I would recommend that you first get a well-grounded understanding of the theory, and by the time you do that you'll see what evidence supports it. It did take me a fair amount of time to get even a laymen's understanding of it, particularly of inflation theory. An internet forum is not where you are going to get that kind of education.



I don't know if your god is fake, I only know that for every god concept presented to me to date, it has not been demonstrated to be anything but imagined.



This varies wildly from religionist to religionist. For example, many Christians accept modern biology, cosmology, physics, etc. while others think (correctly) that if modern biology accurately describes what we know of how living things work, then there was no ride on the ark and no Adam and Eve, and the Earth has to be billions of years old (to allow for the level of diversity we see), and the cosmos even older (to allow for the formation of our solar system). And then there are all the variations in between.



All of this science is testable and falsifiable, so the burden would be on you to show that your interpretation of your religious texts (that I can only guess at) has greater explanatory power for the observed evidence than the scientific theories that have been developed to date.



But, it's so much easier for the religionist to fall back on the 'science is bogus' routine.

I don’t think all science is bogus, I also believe that science contradicts itself. An as for the Big Bang, yep this makes sense- And in the beginning the atom was split and humans were created! Not saying that that is how it was, but what caused it and how did it create humans?


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[ThatJeeper2017]

Only about 2000 years.



What about the Egyptian gods? They are much older than yours.



Does the koran ring any bells? Or Allah? Again older than your god.

Besides Jesus was a prophet of Allah. Atleast according to the muslims.



The Norse sagas are older than the bible. So is the Greek mythology. Even the native american religion is older than your upstart. Not to mention the Australian aboriginals.



All those mentioned, apart from the Australians, have written "proof" of their deities. What makes you so arrogant and selfish to proclaim your flimsy paperback to be in any way better?



Give proof that their gods are false. If you can.



Your bible was written by humans just like everything else on this planet.

Just like the Koran was written by humans and so on. And if Jesus is a prophet of allah, why were there so many holy wars between the Christians/Jews in the Middle East?




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[ThatJeeper2017]

They all appear to be created to me.



When you speak of your experience, was it anything testable, repeatable, presentable? Does it rise above what could be explained by coincidence and confirmation bias? No?

Yes it was.


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[Duuuuuuuude]

Just like the Koran was written by humans and so on. And if Jesus is a prophet of allah, why were there so many holy wars between the Christians/Jews in the Middle East?

Jesus was actually a prophet, and Allah is simply their word for God. The same God as yours. Arabic speaking Jews and Christians also use the word Allah.

Islam has mostly had a peaceful existence with the Jews and the Christians, and would side with them over the pagans and heretics. Yes, the extremists will go to war, but they always do, even within their own ranks.

Overall, the wars have been about control and power. The same things most wars are about. They weren't fighting over who had the better deity.

 

[DavidH]

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them.[d] 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell[e] as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the sanctuary is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gold of the sanctuary is bound by the oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the sanctuary that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gift that is on the altar is bound by the oath.’ 19 How blind you are! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; 21 and whoever swears by the sanctuary, swears by it and by the one who dwells in it; 22 and whoever swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by the one who is seated upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!

Matthew 23



25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup,[f] so that the outside also may become clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. 28 So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

[Bbknucks]

Wow

 

[DavidH]

Wow, ya got a wild imagination..
How or what has raping a child got to do with faith in my Elohim?

If you had read and answered the question, its purpose would have become apparent.

It depends on whether you are here to listen and discuss, or to blindly preach.

I have never been religious, but I gather that one's theology is very much like a house of cards, and must be kept safely tucked away lest a small gust of reason knock it down.

 

[DavidH]

Those who decline to believe

"Decline" implies intent. Belief is not a conscious choice.

and demand believers "prove" the existence of our Elohim.

I never ask for proof; I do ask for something, anything, something small but testable, to demonstrate that this talk of gods is anything other than talk of the imaginary.

I have been commanded (asked) to share my testimony of what I have freely received to those who haven't heard and to not be unequally yoked with unbeliever

Now, I'm going to get a little bit religious.
In John 19:30, probably the most relevant 3 words in the entire Bible concerning the Bible it self and the New Covenant with all men.
"It is finished"
Yashua said these last 3 words to set in motion salvation for everyone who would "belive".
There has been zero prophets since that day, zero new revelations since that day, for on that day "it is finished:.
The Bible, Elohim's instruction to "His people", is enough for me to stand on by faith and choose to try to live my life in line with His teachings.
I believe and no naysayers or unbelievers will in any way detract me from decision.

Your mind is closed tight. Got it."thumbsup"

I don't feel a need to boast or argue about my personal walk with my Father as He has revealed Himself to me continually.

Matthew 22:14 says it best, "Many are called but few are chosen".

No need to boast about having an imaginary friend, but it does beg the question:

Why would you expect others to believe when they don't have the evidence that you do?

Does your conviction blind you to this dilemma?

 

[DavidH]

Why do you fear reality?

I'm guessing that it's because reality does not offer a 'live forever' option, and that would make him sad.

 

[DavidH]

I don’t think all science is bogus,

From what I have gathered about your beliefs so far, it certainly looks like most of science would need to be wildly inaccurate in order to accommodate them.

I also believe that science contradicts itself.

Did someone in your past promise you that science should be straightforward and easy to understand? They were wrong.

An as for the Big Bang, yep this makes sense- And in the beginning the atom was split and humans were created! Not saying that that is how it was,

That does not sound at all familiar.

but what caused it and how did it create humans?

In a scientific context, your questions are incoherent.

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[DavidH]

Just like the Koran was written by humans and so on. And if Jesus is a prophet of allah, why were there so many holy wars between the Christians/Jews in the Middle East?

Tribalism honed by zealots using religion. IMO.