Its just a loop here... just like a lot of the other rules I will just chalk it up to being incomplete and act like West Coast and make my own rules up to follow.
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2013 Rules
- Thread starter Fishmaxx
- Start date
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
i dont see the loop hole here.... no one that i know of in rules committee agrees with you on this topic.
HARDKNOCKZ
Its a HARDKNOCKZ Life...
Gatdamn Erik...Turn that brain of yours off. I get what youre sayin & I get your point. You're simply saying it SHOULD be a rule. Problem is...if every person sat down & hunted for every loophole or rule that can be misinterpreted...the rule book would be 87" thick.
At some point...common sense comes into play. Common sense tells me that if I enter a gate in the correct, intended direction with 2 or 3 wheels, back out, circle around & enter it from the opposite UNintended direction....its a penalty. I dont need a rule telling me that it is just as Jeremy so eloquently put it...I dont need a rule that tells me not to drop a deuce in my hand. :shock:
There are plenty of loopholes in the rules & I understand that many dont like the INTENT rule because it IS a vague blanket at best but if you couple the INTENT rule with COMMON SENSE...these things get simplified fairly quick.
JD
At some point...common sense comes into play. Common sense tells me that if I enter a gate in the correct, intended direction with 2 or 3 wheels, back out, circle around & enter it from the opposite UNintended direction....its a penalty. I dont need a rule telling me that it is just as Jeremy so eloquently put it...I dont need a rule that tells me not to drop a deuce in my hand. :shock:
There are plenty of loopholes in the rules & I understand that many dont like the INTENT rule because it IS a vague blanket at best but if you couple the INTENT rule with COMMON SENSE...these things get simplified fairly quick.
JD
Nabil
no talent hack
I have nothing to back up the following statement, i would view Erik's video as a repo aswell.
however, it did make me realize a way this could be exploited. if you drive the gate as Erik did up until the reverse, then proceed to maneuver the rear axle to the right of the gate, would it then be possible to drive right to left with no penalty (assuming a gate was never touched) and continue on with the backflip? there would always be a part of the truck in between the gates, so therefore it would have to be considered the same attempt correct?
however, it did make me realize a way this could be exploited. if you drive the gate as Erik did up until the reverse, then proceed to maneuver the rear axle to the right of the gate, would it then be possible to drive right to left with no penalty (assuming a gate was never touched) and continue on with the backflip? there would always be a part of the truck in between the gates, so therefore it would have to be considered the same attempt correct?
Basically what you just said is that you agree and you also think its within the rules but we need to use feeling to judge this one.
What competitive sport/hobby do you know of where there are loop holes and nobody even cares to address them? If you have been paying attention during this entire conversation, you will see that I am not the only one lacking common sense, its been noted that we all make up little rules here and there to fill the voids.
I like this hobby because it is not just one aspect that makes a person good, unless they are really, really good at that aspect. You need to be a good driver, good mechanic, have some sense when it comes to physics and most importantly, if youre smart, you can add that to all those I just listed and do even better.
Why would we ever want to encourage people to stop thinking and just follow along with what everybody else is thinking (I will drop the word SHEEPLE for Rowdy)? On this same obstacle people were first trying it forwards, that didnt work so somebody tried it in reverse and had much better luck. Maybe I should have told them I dont allow it because its not the way it was intended? I also made a sick technical downhill and neglected to put a boundary at the bottom to stop them from jumping it. Maybe I should have just called a boundary on them anyway because I intended it to be super technical and not just a jump. Wanna know why I didnt? BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING IN THE FAWKING RULES THAT SAYS YOU CANT JUMP!!!!!!
Like I said earlier, it reminds me of the gate at the BOTW. Dude figured out that he could go below. IMO, its not against the rules, it should be allowed. A lot of people cried because they "felt" it was against the rules. Guess many of us didnt have common sense then either.
If youre smarter than everybody else on a line and you can do it because you took it smarter, you should be rewarded. This happens all the time on less controversial rules/lines and can even win a comp just because they saw it differently.
Acting like there are so many rules that we dont have dialed in is a joke. There are not that many loop holes and its not like passing a bill in Congress. You could seriously fix this one and firm everything up with some simple sentence.
Thats pretty much the point I have been trying to make. Dont take the video too literal, there are a couple other ways you could manipulate the rule.
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josh6575
RCC Addict
Rule 1.10 seems pretty clear that you cannot go through the gate backward until the gate has been progressed by at least 2 wheels on the same side of the crawler. Looks like a repo to the last gate.
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
^^^^you are a genius^^^^:lmao:
maybe we simplified the rules too much...
your question has been answered here before!
different question slightly but the same answer"thumbsup"
maybe we simplified the rules too much...
your question has been answered here before!
different question slightly but the same answer"thumbsup"
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Agreed. Hell, I said that like 10 pages ago....and Erik even agreed then...:ror:
HARDKNOCKZ
Its a HARDKNOCKZ Life...
Yeah but you have mutton chops, wear plaid shorts & ankle socks.....
Nobody listens to YOU!
Oh but it has been decided that you CAN go through the gate backwards before progress....
The catch is (according to some) that it has to be during an "attempt", your car has to be in the gate and only with the front axle. However, none of this is documented anywhere, you just need to have common sense.
Even basing it off that, I could drive my car in reverse, plant a rear tire between the gates, front dig reverse until my car is "in the gate", reverse the whole car until my front axle is between the gates and then progress cleanly.
For some reason in an instance as such, you could take 3 tires/wheels backwards and then it is not going the wrong direction.
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ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
You are totally twisting and misconstruing everything said in here to your favor. Chill out they are toy cars and we are grown men playing with them.
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
this can be discussed untill the end of time but here is a simple and straight forward layout and explination of the rule.
just in case you missed it"thumbsup"
The Violator
RCC Addict
What bugs me here is that nowhere in the rules does it say that you can make multiple "attempts" on a gate.
The word attempt is always (exception: 6.5 Legal Rollover) used in conjunction with "of the course", so it applies to attempt per course, not per gate.
As I see it the "attempt" of a gate starts as soon as you leave the previous gate (or starting point) and ends when you clear the gate (or point out).
If you can't "exit" a gate because it's not expressed in the rules then you can't have more than one "attempt" per gate either, since the rules don't mention any other way to end an "attempt" than to clear the gate or point out.
HARDKNOCKZ
Its a HARDKNOCKZ Life...
I dont think I agreed at all. I said that I get what you're saying. And yes...I DO believe that we need to view something like this in a simpler way than youre choosing to. Just because something isnt written in the rules doesnt mean that its OK to do. It doesnt say we cant leave the gate after half progressed, turn around, enter it from the wrong direction to get the other half of progress because MOST people KNOW thats not how the rules were intended. MOST people understand that when we lay down gates with the arrows pointed in a certain direction that THATS the direction you must take to earn progress. I dont think that we need a revision in the rules saying otherwise. That doesnt make us sheep simply because we choose to accept that.
Those are silly examples & comparing them to what youre addressing is absolutely apples & oranges. By laying the gates down with the arrows facing a certain direction...you have made your intent clear. Follow the direction that the arrows are facing. Theres no trickery there. We've all laid a cool gate that we were excited to drive only to have someone find an easier out. Jumping thru a gate following the intended direction is not in the same ballpark as again...leaving the gates mid progress to enter from the wrong direction.
If you remember...both Jeremy & I agreed that it was legal. Why? Because he made a clean progress in the INTENDED direction. What you do in the video isnt the same. I dont understand how you're comparing the two. IMO we DID have common sense & thats why it was ruled as legal.
Agreed & thats why I supported Mikes finding & Jeremys ruling at BOTW. BUT...it was much simpler than what you're asking. The problem in Wendover that I had was people were arguing that line even tho they agreed that JUMPING thru a similar situation WOULD be legal. How can you jump OVER a pair of gates legally but not crawl UNDER a pair legally?
You ARE a smart cat Erik. We all realize that but sometimes that big ol brain of yours gets going & you look for the holes in the rules...which is fine but claiming that because there's no specific rule outlining what is or isnt a legal attempt, what is or isnt defined as the end of said attempt etc is reaching IMO. I say common sense because MOST people understand & will agree without a written rule that if you enter a gate then back out...thats your 1st attempt. Once you enter the gates again from ANY direction...thats attempt 2.
I also agree with this BUT smart guys like you CAN find the holes & grey areas in MANY of the rules. I dont doubt that for a second.
Yup...it CAN be fixed with a simple sentence & it likely will be now. Between myself, Jeremy Toney & Chris...Im sure 1 if not all 3 will bring it to the Rules Committee for review.
Everything aside Erik...most cases, I appreciate rules questions or questionable rules being brought up so that we CAN have a more uniformed comp series nation wide. That being said...I dont think that EVERYTHING needs a revision in the rules. We all take this somewhat seriously & we're all obviously passionate about it otherwise we wouldn't spend the money, travel & argue over it all. With this kind of passion...we WILL have disagreements & many WILL look for that edge to bring home the win. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with any of that & thats not what we're trying to do here. Nobody wants to squash those thinking outside of the box. But we DO need to try to understand the INTENT of the written rules in question & accept em for what they are. If theres an obvious hole in said rules then by all means, lets hash it out, come together & fix it.
Nabils example would be MUCH more questionable in my mind since he never left the gates...which makes it...say it with me class...THE SAME ATTEMPT, NOT 2. "thumbsup"
JD
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Are you saying to drive the fronts in, then push the rears up on the wall and force it to flip through the gates? If so, I dont see anything wrong with that. "thumbsup"
He said "right to left"
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Ahh....so spin the truck around the gate while the from axle stays planted?
