Brushed or brushless for new project?

[garage-boo]

Ok, I’ve got my trx4 sport tuned and dialed to the point I love it. Now I’m wanting to add another rig. My plan is to get the gen8 pack and start from there. In the sport I’m running a HH 550 trail master 21t. I don’t do any mudding, no water runs, and don’t plan on changing where I take my rigs. I’m not a competitor and never will. Purely hobby crawling and trailing. What’s everybody’s thoughts on using a brushed or a brushless set up? My only thought is I’ve got a brushed motor why not try something different and have both?

 

[Greatscott]

It just comes down to what puts a smile on your face.

I am running am Mamba-X/1900 in my TRX4 (3S) love it (also have one in my Bomber). I have the two-speed transmission, but I really don't need it, it really just gives me a bit more top-end if I want a bit more speed. To get the most out of a BL system, you need to run sensored, sensorless cog like a bad dog in low RPM/high torque situations.

 

[Voodoobrew]

Brushed usualy has slightly lower initial startup rpm and less torque. I have a brushless axe 2300kv, puller pro 2200kv on a mamba x and a few 2100kv brushed setups on hw 1080s. I like them all, but only the mamba can handle over 3s, it also has the most power and highest start speed of the bunch. The axe feels like a super torque but low power brushed motor to me. I can't really tell the difference between a $80 hand wound crawlmaster and a $20 trailmaster on the rocks though. Perhaps it's because I gear my rigs down 3x more then most people, maybe I'm just not very sensitive, Idk...

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[garage-boo]

It’s the only one I have, but I really like the HW 1080. So if I go brushless my main bullet point is to get an esc that will run a brushless motor, correct? I really think the ONLY reason I want a brushless is because I don’t have one. That’s not really much of a reason, but hey, variety is the spice of life.

 

[mass-hole]

I can tell you my 2700Kv holmes puller pro bl is a beast in my rock rey. I dont know why you would need that in a TRX4 other than top speed.

 

[garage-boo]

I’m definitely NOT concerned about fast speed. Smooth, steady, controllable wheel speed with lots of torque is what I’m shooting for.

 

[mikemcE]

Great topic, and I'll add a cents worth here.
I started crawling with a GMade R1 running a brushless BLE/ Tekin brushless on 3s. Loved it and crawled great, bounced well also. Onto a 2.2 Wraith, PullerPro 3500 on 3s Bombproof trans, OD HD gears, a stump pulling beast! Enter a VS4, 2700 Trailmaster Pro on 3s.......Perfect wheelspeed, torque and creepability.

See a pattern here, all 3s crawling. So enter my last build an SCX10ii. I wanted something different, but solid and equal to my brushless . I had a leftover Mamba Max Pro sitting here, and a box of 3s, so I bought a 13t Holmes Crawlmaster brushed, as this is a 5 pole, it has gobs of slow speed creep and torque, without any fancy throttle curves in the ESC. I can switch to any of the brushless with this esc, so I have the best of both.

Now I've ordered another truck kit,an Associated Enduro BUT it really is for the wife. So with her in mind a simple Hobbywing 1080 and a 16t 5 pole Radon on 2s for under $75.00, should creep well and still have enough guts, and will drop 3s in down the road.

End thought......More initial $$$ and setup time needed for brushless, more wear and tear maintenance with brushed, but much lower initial costs, even with a handwound motor.

 

[garage-boo]

Arrrrrgh, decisions decisions

 

[garage-boo]

I’m definitely new to this and with that in mind coupled with the fact I’ve only used the HH trail master 550 21t am I REALLY going to blown away by a different set up than the HH motor and HW 1080 set up I’m running? I’m using that combo with OD/UD gearing and enjoying the heck out of it. It’s kinda of like golf clubs and compound bows, there seems to always something bigger and better out there.

 

[Voodoobrew]

Probably Will not be blown away. Brushless realy shines when your mostly after speed. It can do well on the low side too because it has more torque but it's not as smooth. You can gear down more, up the voltage and have a faster motor with brushless that might have lower initial start speeds, but meh. Brushless can really lay down the power but you don't need that crawling.

I should mention all my stuff is geared 80:1 or higher, which is half the speed and twice the torque as most people have. So my experience is not going to be the same with these motors. At this gear ratio brushed motors have plenty of torque and brushless only adds to the upper rpm range I don't use.

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[punkindrublik]

Can 0 worms. Subbed.

 

[brian.brigg]

I’m definitely NOT concerned about fast speed. Smooth, steady, controllable wheel speed with lots of torque is what I’m shooting for.

For lots of torque I would look at the Holmes Hobbies Revolver. It is sensorless but still very smooth with 14 poles and 12 slots. If you are sensitive to noise an ESC with switchable frequencies can help. I run mine off a Mamba X on my TRX-4 since, at 62, the high frequency sound doesn't bother me.

Check out the Holmes Hobbies YouTube channel. There is a good video of the Revolver with the Castle Sidewinder 4 which shows the torque and the drag brake of these motors and another where John Holmes reviews the Hobbywing Axe and compares it with the Revolver set-up as well as a sensored Puller Pro.

https://youtu.be/qzDSnR9UxaM

https://youtu.be/QxIobffjAw0


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[garage-boo]

For lots of torque I would look at the Holmes Hobbies Revolver. It is sensorless but still very smooth with 14 poles and 12 slots. If you are sensitive to noise an ESC with switchable frequencies can help. I run mine off a Mamba X on my TRX-4 since, at 62, the high frequency sound doesn't bother me.

Check out the Holmes Hobbies YouTube channel. There is a good video of the Revolver with the Castle Sidewinder 4 which shows the torque and the drag brake of these motors and another where John Holmes reviews the Hobbywing Axe and compares it with the Revolver set-up as well as a sensored Puller Pro.

https://youtu.be/qzDSnR9UxaM

https://youtu.be/QxIobffjAw0


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Ha! I know what you mean, my ears ring non-stop. Thanks for the info.

 

[brian.brigg]

For me, the Revolver is a little louder but at least I can hear the ESC start-up beeps clearly which wasn't the case with the Traxxas Titan which was barely audible.

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[garage-boo]

I had already watched that second video. The first one with just the revolver and the sidewinder really has just about made my mind up. The torque and drag brake was impressive. The rig really seemed to creep nicely too. Appreciate the links.

 

[Browneye]

BLX is for when you want to go fast.
Brushed for rock crawling. I have both too - the blx in my bomber is a hoot, but would be a joke in a 1.9 crawler. You like rolling and cartwheels? Then get the BLX. ;-)

 

[JatoTheRipper]

It sounds like brushed is perfect for you. You can try brushless if you want to try something different, but otherwise I don't think you need more than brushed.

I have a Revolver controlled by a Castle Mamba X and I'm not impressed with the smoothness. The Revolver cogs. Every other brushed and sensored brushless system that I've had is smoother.

I'd also suggest not getting the Gen8 for your second truck until Redcat fixes the portal gear issues.

 

[TooOldForThis]

the ONLY reason I want a brushless is because I don’t have one. That’s not really much of a reason, but hey, variety is the spice of life.

I think you should go brushless specifically for this reason. Try something new!

 

[brian.brigg]

It sounds like brushed is perfect for you. You can try brushless if you want to try something different, but otherwise I don't think you need more than brushed.

I have a Revolver controlled by a Castle Mamba X and I'm not impressed with the smoothness. The Revolver cogs. Every other brushed and sensored brushless system that I've had is smoother.

I'd also suggest not getting the Gen8 for your second truck until Redcat fixes the portal gear issues.

Can you point out any specific time in the videos where the Revolver is cogging?

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[JatoTheRipper]

Can you point out any specific time in the videos where the Revolver is cogging?

I'm talking about my Revolver. I don't believe I have videos online.