The diameters were not much different.
Stock Berg large 2nd
Stock HR large 2nd
Stock Berg large 2nd
Stock HR large 2nd
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DLUX super build
- Thread starter Erik D_lux
- Start date
Here is a pic of the large HR 2nd gears installed with the sleeve cut off the large Berg 3rd gear. Actually, it looks like I took a pic of the large HR 3rd with a sleeve cut off. Pretty much the same thing at this point.
I installed the HR 2nd gears along with a 12t pinion, (which is the same tooth count I had on the mod .6 pinion) and went out and drove this thing. My first impressions are really good. I was considering going to 55t motors to just get a touch more torque out of my car. This seems to be perfect right now though. Feels like much better torque and without a doubt MUCH more efficient drag brake. The place where I crawled at didnt have fantastic traction and was smooth rolling rock so it was somewhat hard to tell on the torque. I am going to go out this coming weekend to some great traction and I will report back.
So in that last pic which gears are you running for the following:
Large 2nd:
Small 2nd:
Large 3rd:
Small 3rd:
Are the pin mods required to fit the gears...I'm assuming that was just something extra you've done for some extra BEEF :twisted: Final question just to clear things up...the HR gears use what pitch pinions...standard or metric?
Large 2nd:
Small 2nd:
Large 3rd:
Small 3rd:
Are the pin mods required to fit the gears...I'm assuming that was just something extra you've done for some extra BEEF :twisted: Final question just to clear things up...the HR gears use what pitch pinions...standard or metric?
Added to your post above. There are many different combinations that you can run. Youre most likely like me where you are not willing to run anything besides an upgraded small 2nd and 3rd so therefore, Berg it is. If you went with an HR small 3rd you could save some work.
Pin mods are not required. I just added them in case somebody noticed the larger slot. My 2nd gears already had the large pin so I was forced to do them on the large HR gear. A Berg small 2nd is drop into a HR large 2nd.
HR large 2nd gear is 48p. The rest of the gears in HR are the same as Berg mod .6.
Not only does the HR gear provide more gearing but I believe you will also have more options with a 48p pinion "thumbsup". I am just running 12t because thats what I have in my tool box.
Yeah, if you need more info on what gears transfer over and how to get them to transfer over, I put the link a couple posts back... Specifically post #55 and #58
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/enro...g-gears-please-look-inside-3.html#post3947673
To be honest, I am not sure how to calculate the ratio accurately. You would just take the amount of teeth and start with the ratio of the large 2nd vs the pinion, correct? Then take that ratio in account to the 3rd gear?
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/enro...g-gears-please-look-inside-3.html#post3947673
To be honest, I am not sure how to calculate the ratio accurately. You would just take the amount of teeth and start with the ratio of the large 2nd vs the pinion, correct? Then take that ratio in account to the 3rd gear?
I think youd break it down by the small 2nd gear to the large 3rd then the small 3rd to the 4th...then you'd have to apply the ratio for the pinion and the large 2nd based on your individual rig...there should be a calculator online somewhere...
divide the Large Second gear by the Pinion.
divide the Large Third gear by the Small Second gear.
divide the Fourth gear by the Small Third gear.
multiply all of the previous results to find the Total Reduction.
(LS/P)*(LT/SS)*(F/ST)=TR
The ratio between gears mounted to the same shaft is irrelevant as they both rotate at the same rate.
divide the Large Third gear by the Small Second gear.
divide the Fourth gear by the Small Third gear.
multiply all of the previous results to find the Total Reduction.
(LS/P)*(LT/SS)*(F/ST)=TR
The ratio between gears mounted to the same shaft is irrelevant as they both rotate at the same rate.
Thanks Rob.
I will put the tooth count in here as it might help somebody in the future and also so everybody can double check me.
Pinion = 12
HR large 2nd = 52
Berg large 2nd = 42
HR/Berg small 2nd = 14
HR/Berg large 3rd = 40
HR/Berg small 3rd = 12
HR/Berg 4th = 48
Ratio with HR large 2nd
52/12 = 4.33
40/14 = 2.86
48/12 = 4
4.33*2.86*4 = 49.53
Ratio with Berg large 2nd
42/12 = 3.5
40/14 = 2.86
48/12 = 4
3.5*2.86*4 = 40
Looks like quite a bit. Another way I thought to think about it is since the 2nd gears are 10 teeth apart, it would be like running a 12t pinion in the HR setup vs a 22t pinion on the Berg setup. If you put it that way, its significant.
I will put the tooth count in here as it might help somebody in the future and also so everybody can double check me.
Pinion = 12
HR large 2nd = 52
Berg large 2nd = 42
HR/Berg small 2nd = 14
HR/Berg large 3rd = 40
HR/Berg small 3rd = 12
HR/Berg 4th = 48
Ratio with HR large 2nd
52/12 = 4.33
40/14 = 2.86
48/12 = 4
4.33*2.86*4 = 49.53
Ratio with Berg large 2nd
42/12 = 3.5
40/14 = 2.86
48/12 = 4
3.5*2.86*4 = 40
Looks like quite a bit. Another way I thought to think about it is since the 2nd gears are 10 teeth apart, it would be like running a 12t pinion in the HR setup vs a 22t pinion on the Berg setup. If you put it that way, its significant.
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Nabil
no talent hack
Very interesting, thanks for the numbers.
Your thinking is close but off. You would have to do it in percentages. The hr large second has approx 25% more teeth (or the berg large second has approx 20% less teeth). Therefore a 15 tooth pinion with the hr gear should be close to a 12 tooth pinion with the berg gear. Technically you would need a 14.85 tooth pinion to be exactly equal
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Its pretty hard to argue with the math but it feels much better than a 3 tooth pinion drop.
Just to be clear in my head,... this mod would be the same as dropping to a 9.69 tooth pinion on the full Berg setup. If its that significant dropping 2.3 teeth, now I want to get a 9t pinion just to see how much difference that makes.
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Nabil
no talent hack
Regardless, the overall axle ratio drops considerably 25% more reduction will make a huge difference
TedBull
Rock Crawler
Nice work on figuring out the HR gears Erik. I would realy like to drop my gear ratio and this is something I will try and do for sure. I just don't want to drop $80.00 + for two full sets of HR gears. I need to find someone with a pair of the Large 2nd gears who will sell them. If you know of anyone send them my way please.
If you can find somebody that has a set of HR axles it would actually be really smart of them to trade you straight up. The HR 2nd makes the ratio too low on a 2.2 but perfect on a super. If somebody were smart and traded, then you would both be set.
Even if they are $80 its not a horrible idea. You would have spare 3rds and 4th gears. With Berg gears being desirable, you could probably sell them and make your money back.
Even if they are $80 its not a horrible idea. You would have spare 3rds and 4th gears. With Berg gears being desirable, you could probably sell them and make your money back.
TedBull
Rock Crawler
Hopefully I can find someone to trade me their HR gears. I posted a wanted add but no luck yet.
Maybe you could buy an entire set of HR axles, trade gears out and sell them off? I know a couple people have been PM'ing me wanting to build HR axles but they cant seem to find them.
TCS has the full axle for about $70 ea. I would guess that you could get better than $100 for a pair of new HR axles with Berg gears? Hell, if anything, just build a 2.2 Berg/HR "thumbsup"
TCS has the full axle for about $70 ea. I would guess that you could get better than $100 for a pair of new HR axles with Berg gears? Hell, if anything, just build a 2.2 Berg/HR "thumbsup"
After seeing the serious benefits to having more steering angle and building some shafts for my 2.2, it was obvious to me that I would need to do it to my super also.
Since my motors were over to one side as much as possible, I only ran approx 45* worth of steering so that I would not get into my links. Seeing no way around that, I had to rebuild the entire car, so I made new tubes and got to work.
Since my motors were over to one side as much as possible, I only ran approx 45* worth of steering so that I would not get into my links. Seeing no way around that, I had to rebuild the entire car, so I made new tubes and got to work.
The first order of business was to make some axle shafts capable of 60* degrees.
Just like my 2.2, I used the same shafts but then TIG welded some hardended 4140 to the ears. I only made a set for the front, for now. I dont want to keep making these (very time consuming) if they dont work. I have a couple of back up plans to run to if I have a problem with these.
I made the shaft 5mm. I have always thought a 6mm shaft was overkill. I also wanted a smaller diameter so I could make my tube a smaller I.D.
I thought I would shed more weight going to 5mm than I did. I am not complaining though.
Bully shafts 82g
New shafts 72g
Just like my 2.2, I used the same shafts but then TIG welded some hardended 4140 to the ears. I only made a set for the front, for now. I dont want to keep making these (very time consuming) if they dont work. I have a couple of back up plans to run to if I have a problem with these.
I made the shaft 5mm. I have always thought a 6mm shaft was overkill. I also wanted a smaller diameter so I could make my tube a smaller I.D.
I thought I would shed more weight going to 5mm than I did. I am not complaining though.
Bully shafts 82g
New shafts 72g
