Let's Talk Motors and ESCs

[ajsmcs]

Alright, so I'm trying to decide which motor/ESC combo I'd like to use. In almost all cases I prefer brushless motors for things for obvious reasons HOWEVER I understand that brushed motors are generally prefered for crawlers because they have better low-end control /don't cog like brushless motors do.
However, I recently learned about sensored brushless motors which apparently don't have the cogging issue i.e. best of both worlds, and the Tekin ROC412 seems like the go-to high-end brushless crawler motor.

However, I can't really work a ~$300 motor/ESC combo into my hobby budget at the moment, so I'm going to stick with something a bit cheaper for the time being.

GOALS: This will be a trail truck. It want it to crawl well, but I would like a little bit of top end speed. Not go-fast car territory, I just don't want it to only crawl. I'm going to run it off a 3S battery.

Note: I WILL be running this in water! Yes, I'm aware of the precautions I will need to take. I live in an area heavy with wetlands, and those make up by far the best terrain in the area.

My current plan is to just get an OEM Axial ESC and 35T motor off ebay, but before I do so I wanted to know if there are any other/better options out there.

What all your guys thoughts on the OEM brushed motor/ESC? Are there comparable alternatives better?

How about the ROC 412/Tekin ESC? Are there any motor/ESC combos out there that are just as good but cheaper?

 

[Di_Spencer]

Look into holmes hobbies for both better rebuildable brushed motors and nice brushless motors. Also team brood is known for good brushed motors and they just recently released a line of brushless crawling motors that may fit your budget better.

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[ajsmcs]

I'd heard good things about Holmes Hobbies, but Team Brood is a new name.

UPDATE: Holy crap their motors are affordable. What about ESCs, though?

 

[Di_Spencer]

Look at holmes, tekin, and castle for brushless escs. I have not personally run either brand but have heard great things about both and am planning on picking up the new Brood Vigor motor around christmas time.

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[ajsmcs]

Also: what kind of top-end speed could I expect to get out of the SCX10 on a 3S battery with - lets say - a Holmes Trailmaster brushed motor?

 

[ajsmcs]

I have the Castle Sidewinder combo in my Rustler, and its been great but I do find it's not that smooth at low speeds. Like I said in my OP, I've been led to believe that being equipped with a sensor wire mitigates that. Is that in fact true?

 

[1967Typhoon]

I have the Castle Sidewinder combo in my Rustler, and its been great but I do find it's not that smooth at low speeds. Like I said in my OP, I've been led to believe that being equipped with a sensor wire mitigates that. Is that in fact true?

Yup, sensored motors are a must for crawling and low speed situations.

The cons are that they are more expensive, and require waterproofing. Some of the HH sensored motors are waterproof, but you need to make sure your sensored ESC is as well. It takes a bit of extra work (or money) to get sensored brushless setups ready to submerge. I don't think I would have the balls to dunk a pricey brushless setup into water. For now I'm sticking with brushed. I will sacrifice some wheel speed for tried and true waterproofing.

 

[ajsmcs]

Yup, sensored motors are a must for crawling and low speed situations.

The cons are that they are more expensive, and require waterproofing. Some of the HH sensored motors are waterproof, but you need to make sure your sensored ESC is as well. It takes a bit of extra work (or money) to get sensored brushless setups ready to submerge. I don't think I would have the balls to dunk a pricey brushless setup into water. For now I'm sticking with brushed. I will sacrifice some wheel speed for tried and true waterproofing.

That reminds me of a forum post I read somewhere where a guy trashed a top-dollar Tekin ESC trying to DIY conformal coat it, said "**** it," and bought another one. I'm just thinking "man, it must be nice to be able to throw $450 out the window and not even care..."

I think for the time being I'm gonna stick with a brushed motor and the Axial OEM ESC (which is actually a rebranded Castle ESC) until I can justify throwing $200-$300 into hobby stuff again.

Which motor are you using?

 

[allanon1965]

the ae-2 is castle rebrand, the ae-5 is not...the ae-2 is not rated for 3s the ae-5 is..the ae-2 is not waterproof..the ae-5 is... you can run the ae-2 on 3s with a BEC and it might last. Some have had good luck with it, some have not.

Personally I run the AE-5 in 90% of my brushed crawlers and have had no issues. There are reports of the ae-5 smokiing for no apparent reason but that has happened to many brands of esc's.

the ae-5 uses 2 jumpers..onefor the 2s/3s option and one for drag brake 50%/100%. I have found for me that those options are fine and I dont need anything else. I can change those settings on the trail without anything other than my fingers.

Motors I would run would be either holmes hobbies or team brood..both are great motors and the customer service is top notch. look for a 30t or 35t motor..I have a couple 27t motors and they are good but the 30t and 35t seem to have just a bit more low end resolution..

buying ultra cheap can motors under 20 bucks often leads to shortlived fun...sure they are cheap but who wants to be changing motors every few weeks... not me.

I run both the torquemaster and crawlmaster motors from holmes hobbies..the crawlmaster motors are 5 slot rotors vs the 3 slot rotors on the torquemaster series...so a 27t torquemaster is roughly equal to a 13t crawlmaster...

 

[ajsmcs]

...so you're basically telling me I shouldn't even bother with the $20 Trailmaster motor, then?

What are the performance differences between the Torquemaster and Crawlmaster?

If I'm going to end up spending >$100 on a brushed setup anyway, I'm thinking I may as well just suck it up and go brushless from the get go. Then again, I just can't justify a $200 setup right now...

What kind of top end speed are you getting from those brushed motors? Do you ever run in water?

I've got an old Traxxas 27T Stinger motor left over from my Rustler rebuild. I wonder how well that would do with a new ESC? (lol the original was a Mechanical Speed Control...)

 

[FordFixer]

ill just add one for Holmes stuff...i have both of my rigs with holmes escs and brushless power...i cant say enough about them. i had a 13t brushed from holmes in there before and when i say it was smooth...thats an understatement...omg was it smooth for low crawl and start up...i only went to brushless for ease of maint and i dont cralw in water...evewn though, they are all waterproofed lol...

 

[1967Typhoon]

If you are after cheap, I got you covered. The Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 ESC is commonly found for $20-25 shipped, and is an updated version of the Axial AE-5. It flat out works great, is small in size, and is waterproof.

If you want an ESC with more tuning options, I would lean toward a Castle SV3 and castle link. You can poke around and find both for about $80 if you look around.

For motors, I am using the Yeah Racing Hackmoto 35T. It is a rebuildable motor that you can find for under $25 shipped. It's very smooth and has a good amount of torque. It doesn't have the wheel speed of the Holmes Hobbies motors, but for a budget motor it crawls and climbs GREAT. It may not be the best for sand and mud though, as the wheel speed isn't the greatest. A 27T would be a better option if you were wanting more wheel speed.

 

[allanon1965]

the ae-5 can be had for sub 30.00 new and the crawlmaster expert is 49.00... there are other esc options that are slightly cheaper, the dynamite esc that is found in the ascender is also a nice esc for cheap.. for 49 bucks its very hard to beat a holmes hobbies crawlmaster 13t for the bang for the buck...

buy it once, buy it right...

 

[SCREAMER]

Castle Sidewinder 3 and Holmes Crawlmaster 13t. Factory waterproof ESC for less than $60 shipped on eBay. That motor is 27t 3 slot equivalent for wheelspeed but is a 5 slot for amazing low speed control and smoothness. I run 3 of these motors and after a year on each of them I have no issues or feel the need for anything else.

 

[ajsmcs]

the ae-5 can be had for sub 30.00 new and the crawlmaster expert is 49.00... there are other esc options that are slightly cheaper, the dynamite esc that is found in the ascender is also a nice esc for cheap.. for 49 bucks its very hard to beat a holmes hobbies crawlmaster 13t for the bang for the buck...

buy it once, buy it right...

Believe me, I'm with you. But my problem is that "Buy it right" for my tastes (a nice waterproof sensored brushless system) means spending more than I can afford to right now, and I'd hate to spend $80 on something that will end up sitting in a box 3 or 4 months down the line.
To me, its acceptable to spend $40-$50 for something that will hold me over until I get what I really want. Then again, this is my first 1/10 Crawler and I'm still working according to go-fast car rules.

What is the top end speed for those 35T brushed motors on 3S?

 

[ajsmcs]

Once I have the truck built I kinda want to try running it with the Sidewinder 3 3800KV motor/ESC out of my Rustler just to see how it does.

 

[svt923]

But my problem is that "Buy it right" for my tastes (a nice waterproof sensored brushless system) means spending more than I can afford to right now, and I'd hate to spend $80 on something that will end up sitting in a box 3 or 4 months down the line.
To me, its acceptable to spend $40-$50 for something that will hold me over until I get what I really want. Then again, this is my first 1/10 Crawler and I'm still working according to go-fast car rules.

Start with an ESC that can meet your needs now and in the future. The Holmes BLE is available waterproof and can run brushed motors now and sensored brushless in the future when the budget allows. A $10 sealed can brushed motor will last many months of running while you build funds up for the good stuff (like a Holmes Puller Pro :mrgreen.

 

[allanon1965]

Once I have the truck built I kinda want to try running it with the Sidewinder 3 3800KV motor/ESC out of my Rustler just to see how it does.

it will have some speed but will suck at crawling...been there done that...terrible combination..


top speed on a 35t brushed motor is dependent on your gearing but mostly I would guess around 5-8mph

 

[allanon1965]

Believe me, I'm with you. But my problem is that "Buy it right" for my tastes (a nice waterproof sensored brushless system) means spending more than I can afford to right now, and I'd hate to spend $80 on something that will end up sitting in a box 3 or 4 months down the line.
To me, its acceptable to spend $40-$50 for something that will hold me over until I get what I really want. Then again, this is my first 1/10 Crawler and I'm still working according to go-fast car rules.

What is the top end speed for those 35T brushed motors on 3S?

I have brushless in my scx10II right now, a mamba max pro with a tekin roc 412 3100kv. While its very good and has nice low end and very good wheel speed, it is not as good as my ae-5 esc and holmes hobblies 13t crawlmaster pro... the HH combo will absolutely do better in slow intricate climbs where slow, gentle movements are needed...the HH combo also will hill climb nearly as well as the mmp/roc combo..both combos run 3s lipo..."thumbsup"

 

[triggerhapy]

Arent HH esc rebranded Castle esc?