Questions for Gun Control Advocates

[The Violator]

To fuel the fire and for my own personal enjoyment.. from the homeland security pamphlet on how to respond with an active shooter: "• As a last resort, attempt to take the active shooter down. When the shooter is at close range and you cannot flee, your chance of survival is much greater if you try to incapacitate him/her."

So basically, you can't have any firearms but you must act as a sacrificial soft target with a handful of rocks "thumbsup"

No you are supposed to show the shooter the gun free zone sign. They will then realize the mistake they are making and leave.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

It's interesting that everyone assumes I'm anti-gun.

It is a purposely misleading phrase. Buying from a private seller at a gun show is no different from buying from a private seller outside of a gun show. There aren't tables and table of privately sold guns at gun shows. There is no gun show loophole. Buying and selling private property isn't a loophole.


At any rate, privately sold guns account for pretty much zero mass murders. These guys buy guns from dealers and pass background checks, almost without fail.

Firearms used at Columbine were private purchases from a gun show, so...

 

[rnpnick]

It's interesting that everyone assumes I'm anti-gun.




Firearms used at Columbine were private purchases from a gun show, so...

Not "everyone" I have always assumed you were an asshole.

 

[HahnsB2]

Firearms used at Columbine were private purchases from a gun show, so...

Congrats, you found one, and straw purchases at that, by minors, something that was already illegal :roll:

 

[dezfan]

Congrats, you found one, and straw purchases at that, by minors, something that was already illegal :roll:

But if they had to pass a background check...oh wait never mind.

There is no compromise that will ever satisfy the antis other than the total repeal of the Second Amendment.

As this point, they can all go to hell!

It has been discussed ad nauseam that these ridiculous background checks, "assault weapon" bans, gun free zones, bans on standard capacity magazines, bullet buttons, waiting periods, bans on certain gun features like pistol grips, collapsible stocks, or barrel shrouds, etc... do absolutely NOTHING to stop these attacks.

Why you ask?

Because the perpetrators are criminals that don't follow the law to begin with!!!

Why is that so frigging difficult to comprehend?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Not "everyone" I have always assumed you were an asshole.

I do what I can. "thumbsup"


Guns are cool, I have no problem with them, but I'm not a fanatic. I don't fawn over accessories or play with them like they were Barbie Dolls for middle aged men. Nor am I the least bit concerned that the gubberment is going to come and take them away from me. I'm also not so deluded to proclaim that they are purely for sport or self/home defense. Military based or inspired weaponry were not designed to be defensive, or sporty. Their sole design is to take down people, not deer or birds or clay pigeons or paper targets. Sometimes in defense, usually in offense.

I realize that like drugs and abortions, banning them won't stop them from being available.

Gun Free Zones are only good for making the people that proclaim such things have warm fuzzy feelings and false senses of security.

But if we're going to say that we need to look at certain things (mental health being one) we need to do the best we can to ensure that people that fall into certain categories (those with mental health issues for instance) cannot easily access firearms. Registration and background checks at point of transfer is a way to do that. It gives accountability and severe penalties to the parties that circumvent the system, and protects those that don't. You can keep your scary Nazi stories to yourselves...there are many countries that have had such laws in place for a long time, and the instances of confiscation are rare.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

It has been discussed ad nauseam that these ridiculous background checks, "assault weapon" bans, gun free zones, bans on standard capacity magazines, bullet buttons, waiting periods, bans on certain gun features like pistol grips, collapsible stocks, or barrel shrouds, etc... do absolutely NOTHING to stop these attacks.

Why you ask?

Because the perpetrators are criminals that don't follow the law to begin with!!!

Why is that so frigging difficult to comprehend?

So the answer is to do nothing? Is that how we should approach everything that has the inevitable margin of negative impact?

 

[dezfan]

So the answer is to do nothing? Is that how we should approach everything that has the inevitable margin of negative impact?

The answer is for the government to do what it is legally bound to do.

Not infringe apon the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

You don't want a gun, awesome that's your right and I will happily respect it.

But don't force your neighbor to be a victim because of your fear.

Gun free zones are nothing but soft targets waiting to be turned into killing fields.

Allow the citizens who wish to be armed to exercise their Constitutional right to arm and defend themselves!

At least give them a fighting chance.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

The answer is for the government to do what it is legally bound to do.

Not infringe apon the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

You don't want a gun, awesome that's your right and I will happily respect it.

But don't force your neighbor to be a victim because of your fear.

Gun free zones are nothing but soft targets waiting to be turned into killing fields.

Allow the citizens who wish to be armed to exercise their Constitutional right to arm and defend themselves!

At least give them a fighting chance.

Chicago is the perfect example of that. Ban all guns and they'll just come in from somewhere else. We can't do what Australia did, mainly because they live on a freaking island and are somewhat isolated. That, and they have a completely different attitude towards firearms. They still have guns, they just don't get all horny about them.

I agree with what you say, but a line has to be drawn somewhere concerning who gets them and how to enforce it. Like all rights, you have them until it's been proven that you can't use them responsibly.

 

[dezfan]

So let's play devils advocate, follow the anti's logic and punish the law abiding citizens who already obey the laws and ban guns.

Then only the criminals (and the government which isn't much different) have guns.

Do you see an issue with that?

 

[beachbum]

Jesus, you people are stuck on the "Gun Shows" thing, that's for sure. Gun shows have been the target of the left and their propaganda via nonstop media coverage for so long now low information, nonattending gun haters think the devil himself has a Mass Shooter booth set up at each one handing out guns for free with pamphlets on how to terrorize their local school or town, and how to hate the government, with free Tannerite for the kiddies. Well in the past now. There was a time many moons ago when naferious buyers where able to pick up a gun at a gun show with little trouble or some form of background check, many moons ago. It's not exactly the place to go and try to illegally buy a firearm these days. There are checks and are legitimately run, these are not one tooth camo clad nut job sellers handing just anybody a full auto SAW saying "This will shoot up dem commi bastards reeeeal good, and I'll meet ya out back with a truck load of grenades and explosive ammo". Do you know how many under cover cops troll these things, whom also pose as buyers from any suspicious seller? I live in the south and it's not even like that. You do have some gung ho types there, but that's really no different then the really into it gung ho people at other shows. Ever seen the people at the craft shows, lol? Now for the brain dead sheeple I'm not comparing weapons to crafts mearlly the enthusiasm some have for a hobby they really enjoy.

The nonstop propaganda the antigun groups have flooded the media outlets with for so long now has imbedded the nonknowing minds with at the mere mention of the term "Gun Show", instant mental images of government hating hillbilly, Nam Vet dressed, scarey crazy people selling automatic weapons to anybody and everybody. You tell someone something no matter if it's the truth or not over and over and over and eventually they believe what they hear without further thought.

Gun show loopholes are a term made up by the antigun groups from a time in the past because it makes people think anyone can skirt the law there and easily. If you break down the factual numbers out there the majority of guns in illegal hands come from the black market of stolen guns. There are however a few that make it into illegal hands by straw purchasers at these shows (who buy them legally there passing a background check just like they could at a gun shop/dealer). Straw purchases also occur through gun shops as well.

The majority of guns used in crimes though are from stolen sources. There was a man (Pageland SC) recently arrested an hour or two from my location a few months ago as an example, with between 7,000-10,000 stolen guns on his property and in a warehouse. Where do you think they where going, black market. Last I checked straw purchases are mostly illegal now, gun show "loopholes" are now a myth and corrected in the past. Private sales to straw purchasers (which can happen in a private sale with an unknown buyer and uncaring seller) and theft account for the vast majority of guns used illegally and in crimes.

If those of you stuck on gun shows want to actually complain about a legitimate source of easily non background checked weapon sales then bitch about online sales (and as mentioned above the mentally ill issue). I've purchased quite a few guns in the past from the gun classifieds online sites. I always require a Bill of Sale for ass coverage and prefer to deal only with CWP holders. South Carolina however requires no Bill of Sale or form of ID other than for age (which is at the discretion of the seller/buyer) or background check with these private sales at the time being as well as many other states. Some do require a Bill of Sale, it varies state to state.

I personally like it the way it is but also have to accept the times we live in now and would have no issue with background checks being required with these types of sales. BUT private or private online sales not being banned or the passing down of collectable/modern guns from a dying/deceased parent/grandparent type, generational transfer. Some want to ban both together as being similar types of transfers. My reason for liking it here as it is, is mearlly monetary, as checks cost money which has to be transferred to the sales/purchase price and you basically might as well become a FFL dealer card holder then. As I said above I would accept a change in this venue because of the current times. It is however, too easy for a bad person to purchase a gun this way. Example, I purchased a nice Mini30 with an equally nice looking Spartan stock (used by some hunters but with aftermarket stock LOOKS "Assult" type) from a local police officer a few years back, talked for a bit about trucks (he was restoring a Bronco), exchanged $ for gun and off we went. As he was leaving I asked if he wanted to do a BOS but he asked if he could snap a cell pic of my DL instead. He wasn't even going to do this until I asked when leaving. We did not know each other but through our conversation we both knew fellow coworkers at each other's jobs and I assume he assumed by studying my appearance/ demeanor etc. I was legit. No this wasn't a sting or surlvailance thing. I already knew SC gun sale laws but asked anyway just in case I had missed something recently passed and he affirmed that no BOS or transfer or check of any type is required in SC with private/online sales. There are other states with similar laws or lack of as well.

As mentioned previously, more laws (how about enforce the laws we already have as a starter), restrictions, confiscation etc. will only be adhered to by the law abiding not the criminals. Also how about a discussion geared toward the direction our society as a whole has taken over the past 30 years. Away from praise of the family unit, wholesome values etc, instead of the "Hip Hop" thug life praising culture where "heroes" held high by the media etc. are Transvestites that come out in public or publically dope smoking ex drug dealer music stars, etc. I can't even leave my kids in front of the TV these days without having to monitor what they watch....even some freaking commercials. Heck, people on the freakin Weather Channel curse left and right on some of their programming. All of this perpetuating and indoctrinating young watchers with this lack of morels type of now accepted society we currently live in that breeds the Columbine types.

As for our Aussie friends, enjoy the peace while you can (unless you where at a chocolate shop in Sydney last year). Things might be ok right now but you can't foresee the future. You have an advantage we don't have here in the U.S. that has helped prevent your country from becoming overrun with gangs, extremeists, thug culture......land locked. No adjoining countries directly importing drugs, gangs, cartels, etc. I remember not every Austrailian was enthusiastic about turning in their guns, ask the real Crocodile Dundee, oh you can't the government killed him. Like I said enjoy it while you can and truly hope it remains as it is for you guys. I need to renew my subscription to Austrailian 4X4 by the way, one issue left lol. You guys have some kick ass off-roading down there, hope to go one day.


Just wanted to steer the conversation away from a nonissue to legitimate areas of concern. Think I'll head over to Arms List for the heck of it. Saw a nice Tavor on there the other day.

 

[beachbum]

Forgot to mention above I wouldn't oppose a gun safety/handling class for first time gun buyers either. You have to pass a test to drive a car etc. You would receive a card similar to CWP cards. Also you just can't weed out stupid. A large number of gun death statistics lump in the total of accidental deaths in their numbers. Some people shouldn't be driving a car, some should never have kids, some shouldn't........., you get my drift. Some forget the first rule of guns, ALWAYS handle a gun as if it where loaded. You can't breed out the stupid/lack of common sense gene yet.

 

[Robbob]

So let's play devils advocate, follow the anti's logic and punish the law abiding citizens who already obey the laws and ban guns.

Then only the criminals (and the government which isn't much different) have guns.

Do you see an issue with that?

Im reading something this morning about the whole CA attack and two different people hit the nail on the head.

"You kind of just want to go to work and home, or pick up your kid and go straight home," she said. "You really don't want to go anywhere. You kind of feel like you're violated in a sense of your freedom, in a way. You don't feel safe going anywhere anymore."

and another

"But definitely, I think if I'm in a crowd of people outside where I don't see policemen, I'd kind of be a little bit more fearful," he said.

Now like you said .... lets take our only real level of self defense away. Wheres that leave us law abiding citizens?

 

[The Violator]

 

[johnnyh66]

You kids are silly... all scared of the world clinging to your guns even though they don't make you feel safe enough to let refugees into the country. What a sad, cowardly, tortured life you live.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

So let's play devils advocate, follow the anti's logic and punish the law abiding citizens who already obey the laws and ban guns.

Then only the criminals (and the government which isn't much different) have guns.

Do you see an issue with that?

Yes I do, and I've already said that banning them is not the answer and does not work. If we could magically make all firearms vanish within our borders, they'd just come rolling back in from Mexico and South America.

Universal/point of transfer background checks and mandatory waiting periods are NOT punishment. If you want to go all Veruca Salt about it, go ahead.

Arkansas passed a law stating that federal agencies cannot run sting operations at gun shows to nab people that sell privately to those that would not normally pass a background check. If private sales at gun show were not an issue, then there would not be any reason for the ATF to be there, nor for the state to prevent them from being there.

To Beachbums point about private sales via the web and local papers: yes, that is an issue as well. In AR there are no background checks or ID required. Cash and carry. However, there are steep penalties for selling to a felon, and even steeper if that felon commits a crime with that weapon. That is a good thing, but doesn't work if it has already passed through several peoples hands without a paper trail, or had been stolen but not reported, because determining who the seller was is not always clear.

 

[WHITE-TRASH]

You kids are silly... all scared of the world clinging to your guns even though they don't make you feel safe enough to let refugees into the country. What a sad, cowardly, tortured life you live.

I have zero issue with anyone coming to this country as long as some simple common sense stipulations are met.

No voting rights.
No .gov assistance after one calender year of their arrival date on our shores.
Learn to communicate in English. I don't expect anyone fresh off the boat to be a great speaker in our language but basic communication skills are their best step to making a life here.

 

[dezfan]

You kids are silly... all scared of the world clinging to your guns even though they don't make you feel safe enough to let refugees into the country. What a sad, cowardly, tortured life you live.

Yeah, we're the silly ones. You live in the Liberal wet dream of gun control and yet you ignor and deny the chaos, death, and despair it has created.

Defending our rights has nothing to do with immigration.

This has to do with common sense.

If you grabbed a handful of M&Ms and someone then told you that a few of them are laced with poison, would you still eat them?

After all, only a few of them are going to make you sick.

What's sad is the fact that you have so little regard for the lives of those you endanger everyday with your blind hatred and fear of firearms and those who possess them.

Over 11 million American citizens carry concealed everyday. When was the last tragedy you heard of caused by a law abiding citizen?

Yet in the last month we have seen muslim immigrants carry out 2 separate attacks, on 2 separate continents, causing the death of close to 200 innocent human lives with many many more injured!

And what do you do? Regurgitate the same tired rhetoric about guns and gun owners being to blame.

And you of all people want to talk about being cowardly?

Your empty, blinding, hatred, void of care or concern for the rights of others or the impact it inflicts upon them is evil.

 

[67mustang]

You kids are silly... all scared of the world clinging to your guns even though they don't make you feel safe enough to let refugees into the country. What a sad, cowardly, tortured life you live.

First of all....all of you anti gun and "i am not anti gun but subscribe to it"...from an ex chairperson of the democratic party...THINK FOR YOURSELF.

I dont believe that most gun owners "cling" to their guns due to the world being what it is. If you actually believe that then flat out...your perspective is fairytale. There is no point in discussion. You believe in the gospel that is the anti-gun narrative. Other people tell you what to think. Since reality does not back your led-perceptions...you resort to calling gun owners cowards. Truth is that gun owners dont worry about what they are prepared for.

What is your personal experience with guns? Only reason I ask is because my first post refers to "know nothings". Everyone has a right to their opinion...even people who have never even shot a gun. However, seeing as they are uninformed and misinformed...those opinions hold little weight. Its clear anti gun folks react emotionally because they continue to argue a losing point not based in reality.

Yall should be thankful that the sensible gun owners on this site...kindly engaged in the gun show discussion....even though everyone who understands free will knows that a gun is just a tool and the human using it decides the purpose.

We should outlaw screwdrivers because I have shot myself many times with those things....and many times as a minor.

 

[vonclod]

Forgot to mention above I wouldn't oppose a gun safety/handling class for first time gun buyers either. You have to pass a test to drive a car etc. You would receive a card similar to CWP cards. Also you just can't weed out stupid. A large number of gun death statistics lump in the total of accidental deaths in their numbers. Some people shouldn't be driving a car, some should never have kids, some shouldn't........., you get my drift. Some forget the first rule of guns, ALWAYS handle a gun as if it where loaded. You can't breed out the stupid/lack of common sense gene yet.

Mandatory training for 1st time owners is a good idea..one of the things Canada does well. I think generally 25-30% of people are just plain stunned stupid..those are the people I would worry about.