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why does everybody hate on PitBulls on Scalers?
- Thread starter EvilTwin v2
- Start date
EvilTwin v2
I wanna be Dave
Yeah well I am putting dig on my next scaler so there..
I'm not even going to get started on dig. I have several buddies running atlas or Stak t-cases in their street-driven Jeeps, yet most people consider dig non-scaler.
JesterSpec
RCC Addict
And 4 wheel steering. Getting way off topic, but trailered rigs do use digs, cutting brakes, and 4 wheel steering.
The more I'm seeing 2.2 the more open I am, I think the open spacing is what does it for me, and the width, but like you say, they are more scale than some others. how wide would the gap be on the tires if they were 1:1? I don't have a set here to measure.
Deep down I feel that they follow the comp trend, sedonas are as wide and tall.
monkeyracer
I wanna be Dave
Pit Bull had to make the tire with wide spacing and lug voids so it would actually work at this size. Look at their ATV Rocker II XOR:
There are voids in the tread, and larger spacing. Now, of course you wouldn't see these on a 1:1 crawler, but if you had the same proportion of lug to space as the 1:1 LT Rocker:
You would have the same issue that plagued the first version of RC4WD's Crushers. The lugs and spacing were scale and when the tire folded, the lugs closed the space, and the tires went nowhere fast.
Pit Bull wasn't going to go through all that hassle of making a mold, to not sell any tires.
I don't think any tire should be banned from scale comps, but they should have scale point penalties like we do in the Colorado Scale Comps. Someone with rovers is maxed at less scale points compared to someone with what the group considers scale tread. The point being to try to make the whole vehicle as scale as possible. A lexan bodied, rover wearing, basically AX10 out of the box with SCX10 frame rig may be very capable, but someone that put the time and effort into building something scale and knows how to drive will still win because of the point system. All of the top 5 vehicles in both categories had "scale" tires, and really only a few people didn't have scale tires at some point in the summer series.
There are voids in the tread, and larger spacing. Now, of course you wouldn't see these on a 1:1 crawler, but if you had the same proportion of lug to space as the 1:1 LT Rocker:
You would have the same issue that plagued the first version of RC4WD's Crushers. The lugs and spacing were scale and when the tire folded, the lugs closed the space, and the tires went nowhere fast.
Pit Bull wasn't going to go through all that hassle of making a mold, to not sell any tires.
I don't think any tire should be banned from scale comps, but they should have scale point penalties like we do in the Colorado Scale Comps. Someone with rovers is maxed at less scale points compared to someone with what the group considers scale tread. The point being to try to make the whole vehicle as scale as possible. A lexan bodied, rover wearing, basically AX10 out of the box with SCX10 frame rig may be very capable, but someone that put the time and effort into building something scale and knows how to drive will still win because of the point system. All of the top 5 vehicles in both categories had "scale" tires, and really only a few people didn't have scale tires at some point in the summer series.
x2....
War Pig
I wanna be Dave
It was a nostalgia thing ....maybe if you came to Montana one of these years, you'd understand a few things. With MSD rules, all banned tires have a 20 point penalty. You can run them if you want, but it'll cost you.
Not sure what to say about that....
All above tires will probably suck in 3 years so then they will be legal for scale???
Maybe give them 4 years, then we'll talk about it
. That is a dumb argument, in 2006 there were two options. Moabs and Mashers, now there are what 20 to 30 different tires? Those were "on the edge" when we discussed them, but both were designed as comp tires and lost out in the end.
Offroader5
Picky Fab'r/Acetal Junky
I just don't like wide tires on a 1:1...so it just carries over to the smaller world. If I lived someplace like Iceland or a place where a wide tire is the way to go for all the mud romping...it may be a different story. I don't like the pizza cutter look either, but somewhere in between. I like a tall tire to look somewhat skinny...like you'd see in many of the way large military tires. I run 35x12.50's on my XJ...on an 8" wheel because on the 10" wheel, the sidewalls bulged out a bit too much for my tastes.
I've looked into Pitbulls for my XJ....but just don't like how wide they are. It all comes down to personal preference.
I've looked into Pitbulls for my XJ....but just don't like how wide they are. It all comes down to personal preference.
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
I disagree quite strongly that banning tires from scale competition is bad. Should we allow Panthers and such, too? If not, why not? Where would you draw the line? And personally, I think Moabs are not scale looking and should be banned, too. Sorry, Tim! :ror:
I truly appreciate that Pit Bull made RC tires. But what about ALL the other tire makers who actually make RC tires that truly look realistic? Now they're out of a lot of business because everyone needs that last performance advantage. That's not encouraging, either. I hear where you're coming from, but I just feel there is a lot more to it.
No offense, but those look way too wide to be scale, IMO. Maybe with narrower wheels and taller foams, but from what I can see it doesn't look scale to me.
We also SHOULD keep the sport reasonably affordable. Let's face it, some concessions need to be made in order to please the majority of the people participating in a sport. If we start allowing every performance enhancing feature that a 1:1 has, the cost of entry for a reasonably competitive rig may skyrocket. Is that good for the sport as a whole? I'm not saying we shouldn't allow dig, 4WS, etc., but those rigs should be in a separate "no holds barred" kind of class. Everyone should not have to add these mods in order to be competitive.
I guess what I'm afraid of is too much focus being put on outright performance instead of SCALE performance. Our rigs are supposed to be modeled after true-to-life, 1:1 rigs from mildly modified daily drivers to all out rock buggy monsters and everything in between. So they should perform like scaled down versions, not like a comp rig. That's why I very strongly feel that scale realism (in looks AND performance!) should be heavily rewarded in order to keep these rigs competitive against someone who shows up with a cut up Honcho on 2.2's, but I guess that's a discussion for another day.
I agree with this one. There are disadvantages to going completely scale. Hard Plastic Body, Chassis Mounted Servo, Scale tread tires, Scale Accessories all add to a rig being "less capable". This is what makes it fun. I would willingly take penalties if I am running an SCX10 Honcho with a shovel glued to the back versus a rig that has the above.
Problem with the Pit Bulls is that it doesn't stop there, next will be rovers, x locks, etc.
Just my opinion...but I just do this for fun...
Yeah well I am putting dig on my next scaler so there..
So I should keep the other set of pitbulls then?
I am a little biased on these tires. Probablly because a friend of mine is who designed the molds for them. And from my understanding these tires were ment to be a scale tire with a little comp influence added to them.
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
That's a shame. I feel for your buddy. Unfortunately, designing a scale tire with comp influence puts it straight into limbo. It may not perform well enough for the comp guys to use it, but it's not quite scale enough for the scale guys. Honestly, the design should've been one or the other and not try to bridge the gap between them.
It stinks for your buddy and for Pit Bull's investment. Molding tools ain't cheap! I hope they continue to support our sport, but next time have a clearer focus on whom they're targeting to buy their tires.
It was a nostalgia thing ....maybe if you came to Montana one of these years, you'd understand a few things. With MSD rules, all banned tires have a 20 point penalty. You can run them if you want, but it'll cost you.
What does coming to Montana have to do with running scale comps every other weekend?? I do understand a few things I run with guys that have full blown cheater rigs. You want national rules? Not everyone using them will goto montana Not everyone using them will have the same terrain or group of people. rules will have to work for everyone. Not just montana. Nostalgia has no place in the rules unless its for some nostalgia class..
Maybe give them 4 years, then we'll talk about it
Its a dumb argument Really?? are you counting all the current scale tires that suck and no one would run ever?? and there were more then just mashers and moabs, geolanders, dirtworks, dirt hawgs, at least five more from Imex.. Now if you say 2 tires that didnt suck or not have enough height then I agree. but really how many "scale" 2.2 tires dont suck right now? Rox lox(billed as a comp tire by the manufacture) and what else?
personal preference some dudes dig wide tires. this is another reason tires should not be banned.. You get enough guys in a room that like fat chicks making rules about banning women. and all the skinny chicks will be banned.. :mrgreen:
I have seen panthers ran on several trucks and other "comp" tires and it never was the tire making the guy win or lose. a perceived advantage. I am not gonna go out and throw rovers on my truck, But I dont want to compete with "less capable".
if you need them.So I should keep the other set of pitbulls then?
I am a little biased on these tires. Probablly because a friend of mine is who designed the molds for them. And from my understanding these tires were ment to be a scale tire with a little comp influence added to them.
I dont think you are biased. I know you even if you didnt know anyone you would still like those tires.
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
I won't argue about perceived vs. actual advantages, but Panthers don't look realistic. At all. Therefore (IMO) they should not be a legal scale tire regardless of how they perform. What would be next? MOA rigs in scale? ;-)
Someone mentioned Flashpoints earlier. They are modeled after a heavy duty tire designed for multi-axle truck use. I think they should be legal on those types of rigs only, not on more conventional 4x4's. But rather than make specifications like that, it's easier to simply remove it from competition. That's what our club did.
I agree with this. The Pitbulls are under discussion because the designer tried to walk the fence between scale and comp.
Yes the Rok Lox are billed as a comp tire by RC4WD but it is quite obvious the tread was designed to be scale.
Who the heck cares if you like fat tires or skinny tires? That has nothing to do with scale rules or what is scale or not. You can't deny that the Rock Beast is scaled near perfectly to their 1:1 tire in height and width.
Personally I dislike the narrow tread of the Rok Lox and prefer a wider tire, just like I do on my 1:1 rig. Similar to what Sloppy said, lets get a bunch of people who dislike Toyotas and have them make the rules.
The rubber compound had plenty to do with that. :ror:
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So your club bans tires based on what truck they go on in stock form on real trucks? Whats next a lug going the wrong direction??
and how exactly would anyone propose to keep up on a banned tire list?? tires come out every other week anymore will there be some nationally kept list of tires people dont like? that gets updated every time a new tire arrives?
Offroader5
Picky Fab'r/Acetal Junky
Yeah, cuz I've never seen 53" Michelin's on a trail truck :roll:
Tommy R
I wanna be Dave
Agreed. If the RC tire in question is modeled after a 1:1 wide tire, it's fine in my book.
At the time the Flashpoint was put on the list, it was looking to be a cheater tire and, of course, it looks like nothing available for 99% of the types of rigs that show up to a scale comp. Rather than have a situation where people bought a less scale tire simply to be competitive, we decided it would be best to eliminate the tire from scale comps. The Flashpoint is the only tire in this particular situation and was a very unique case.
To keep up with a banned tire list, the clubs and members/participants simply have to do the best job they can. But if a national set of rules are put into place, tire manufacturers will acknowledge this and cater to their customers.
JesterSpec
RCC Addict
this turned hot quick.
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