Why go brushless?

[Bobtail74]

I hear scale/trail rig guys talk about water, I am in the same boat. (no pun intended) I want to build a TTC rig and wonder what those guys run. I also wanted to know what anyone knows about the Slash 4x4 motor since it claims waterproof. I can appreciate all that brushless has to offer and will go that way if need be. I just can't afford to run off half-cocked and experiment on my own. The lipo setup I feel will be necessary either way is going to be a big enough learning curve and wallet hit.

 

[MSH]

I'd say my Xerun and 17.5 LRP is smooth as butter on the low end.

many say brushless doesn't deliver but have they tested?

 

[BEELZEBOB]

No never.:roll:

None of the hundreds maybe thousands of individuals who have commented on this topic have NEVER used a BL motor in a crawler.

LOL

you ever had a $60 hand wound with a castle ESC?

 

[tedo]

I also agree that brushless is only getting better and cheaper, and brushed is kinda a dieing breed. BUT....

I am curious about trail scale rigs and brushless. I just built a 2.2 scaler with every intention of getting it wet and muddy. I am also new to the "slow" scene.

I run the Tekin RX8 2000 combo on 4s in my truggy and it is soooo smoooth (even at low speeds). Such an efficient motor and esc.

Has anyone here run a bl system in a TTC build or trail scaler (mud, water, etc..)?

 

[Grizzly4x4]

I'd be willing to bet 90% or more of the people saying that have never drove a sensored brushless system, or at least not one that was programmed right. You can read yhe HB logo's on my tires as they turn and break as many parts as you want to.

I agree, saying that brushless is no good for crawling is just wrong.

The Novak sensored brushless system is every bit as smooth at low speeds as a 10T Cobalt Puller and a Sidewinder ESC. Plus it's got great punch.

I hear scale/trail rig guys talk about water, I am in the same boat. (no pun intended) I want to build a TTC rig and wonder what those guys run. I also wanted to know what anyone knows about the Slash 4x4 motor since it claims waterproof. I can appreciate all that brushless has to offer and will go that way if need be. I just can't afford to run off half-cocked and experiment on my own. The lipo setup I feel will be necessary either way is going to be a big enough learning curve and wallet hit.

I run Holmes Hobbies 10 and 7 turn cobalt Puller motors and CC Sidewinder or Holmes Hobbies TorqueMaster ESCs.

 

[drawsdonkeys]

most 2.2 guys run brushed. Its easier to hook up and efficiency isnt as big of issue. I ve seen some bl systems run great seen some older or cheaper version have cogging issues. Do whatever your budget can afford or your rig can fit.

 

[BEELZEBOB]

if i ever build a scaler ill be stickin a BL in that fo shure.

a scaler is no fun unless it goes 30mph! LOL

 

[wanantrdsc]

I run a WK crawler I built, with the stock HPI Saturn 27t motor, 22t pinion, 90t spur, gear reduction unit, and Traxxas xl-5 esc I had laying around. I have been playing around with 23t, 26t, and 28t pinions. Truck moves pretty good on the 28t. Thing is, the gear reduction unit gives me my drag brake, the motors cheap, and nearly any esc can run a brushed motor. I run with a 4500mah 7.2v. The longest I have run is an hour and a half, and thats cause I get bored. One hour is typical. I have no idea how long the batt lasts, cause it never has run down. When I go to charge the batt, it takes less than 10mins, at 3.0 amps - cant remember the other settings.

With all that said, and given Im having a lot of fun, why would I spend a minimum of $100, but realistically, at least $150 for a BL setup. I dont see how its worth the money, and how its going to provide more fun.

 

[MSH]

I like brushless tech, brushed for me is history...:mrgreen:

 

[stewbaru]

Sorry if I skipped over it, but surely the LiPo part of the brushless set up has its advantages?

Mass per Amp for one and the physical size of the packs is a win over 6/7 cell stick or saddles?

 

[MSH]

Lipo can be used with brushed just aswell.

i've done that for years in my basher's and drifters.

But with lipo you can use 3s 1800 orso and you have like 120Gr battery that still delivers ~50amp continued."thumbsup"

 

[EvilTwin v2]

Even the best brushless setup, tuned correctly, will occaisionally have problems with stalling if you get it into a bind in which you need to play with the digs to free it. They still aren't perfect. Though, they really do seem to be the answer for the LCC.

I'm really wondering, though, if the people who are ripping on brushed motors have ever tried a good handwound. I personally would not swap my blue can Tekin 35t handwounds on dual FXR's for any brushless system on my T1e Bully.

 

[kineteks]

My experience...
I have brushed motors in all but one of my crawlers, MOA & shaftys. Handwound 35T to 55T and Texkin FXR ESC. They are all super-smooth and with free running drivelines get plenty of run time and give plenty of speed. As has been mentioned, maintenance is minimal....they just don't get the same abuse they would in speed based competition. After torching a couple of brushed motors in my LCC I got a Novak Goat 3S/18.5 Ballistic combo and though it runs cool it is nowhere near as smooth on start-up & at a creep as my brushed set-ups. The Ballistic motors have the bigger 14 mm rotors and mine cogs pretty noticeably. I've contacted Novak tech service about it and they don't have a solution. I've read a bunch of threads here about this issue and tried all of the suggestions brought up... don't get me wrong, it works OK, but not like my brushed motors. I just picked up a 13 mm rotor and will try a 12.3 if that doesn't work... I'm not giving up on it, but I'll be spending $40-80 (with shipping) to hopefully get some results. Compared to the Tekin FXR anyway, BL ESCs are much bigger and have a bunch more wiring. The sensor cable uses very delicate plugs and is relatively stiff, I run 2 ESCs in my MOA, no way I'd want to try to fit two BL ESCs and the attendant wiring in a 2.2 crawler. So, I look at it like this... for crawling I would use brushed unless there was a specific reason not to. The LCC, because of it's unique driveline, requires the extra efficency and better ability to deal with stall/near stall, without generating destructive levels of heat, that a brushless system provides, ...but until I find a BL system that runs absolutely as smoothly as my brushed motors I won't be running them in anything other than the LCC."thumbsup"

 

[Stormin2u]

It seems to me that the out runners and sensored brushless motors I've run have had less dynamic breaking for trucks with standard geared axles. But this is not a problem on the Losi 2.2 due to the friction of it's worm gear axles and the extra efficiency of the sensored brushless motor improves battery run time. It appears the development and use of both motors depends on the application and vehicle design.

 

[subyman]

I run a WK crawler I built, with the stock HPI Saturn 27t motor, 22t pinion, 90t spur, gear reduction unit, and Traxxas xl-5 esc I had laying around. I have been playing around with 23t, 26t, and 28t pinions. Truck moves pretty good on the 28t. Thing is, the gear reduction unit gives me my drag brake, the motors cheap, and nearly any esc can run a brushed motor. I run with a 4500mah 7.2v. The longest I have run is an hour and a half, and thats cause I get bored. One hour is typical. I have no idea how long the batt lasts, cause it never has run down. When I go to charge the batt, it takes less than 10mins, at 3.0 amps - cant remember the other settings.

With all that said, and given Im having a lot of fun, why would I spend a minimum of $100, but realistically, at least $150 for a BL setup. I dont see how its worth the money, and how its going to provide more fun.

You run for over 1 hour on 500ma?

 

[K.O.M.]

I was reading and watching this topic for a while. Finally bought the cheapest brushless sytem available--the Integy Prospeed Crawler system.

I commented in another thread, but you need to order the programming card otherwise it's fairly mediocre--just a bit better than the Axial ESC and 27T sealed endbell motor that was stock in my SCX10 TR. I also have used an older Tekin 4-11 with a custom hand-wound 30 turn motor in my SCX10 as well, and is used a basis for comparison. With the proper programming, even the lowly Integy setup works well. Even the 30 turn brushed motor stutters a bit with enough load, as does the Integy, but for $90 for the motor, esc, programming card and zero maintenance, I think I'll pick up another for my rock-racer project.

I'm relatively new to crawling (less than a few months), but have been with the hobby for over 15 years. I've owned quite a few hand-wound mods back when I was competitively racing touring cars so I am quite aware of the differences that a hand-wound brushed motor can offer. Howerver, I'm more or less sold on brushless and will be looking at the higher end Novaks in the near future.

 

[BEELZEBOB]

you cannot compare the use of a brushed vs BL in racing applications, to crawling applications.

this isnt a Brushed vs BL pros and cons.

its about crawling. wedge thatrig into a tight spot where its all bound up, likley the integy BL will be a glitchy stop and go , where my Warrior can will move the rock or break the truck trying.

you may have been in the hobby for 15 years, but 15 years ago guys were putting drill morors in their crawlers that were scratch built.

in a crawler like a berg, bully, axial etc. hand wond, brushed motors in conjunction w/ an excellent ESC like a CC or HH TourqueMaster, will give you an unrivialed smoothness, throttle control, and tourque.

I would challenge anyone running BL w/ a decent ESC to simply try a handwound. i'd bet you'd never go back

 

[EddieO]

Everyone I have ever sent a motor to who was brushless has always said they liked the feel and such of the brushed....I myself have never tried a brushless in a crawler.

I've never liked the feel of brushless.....always just felt like an on/off switch to me....with no drag brake....I have not ran anything since the new speedo wars happened in racing....I will be soon.

And as for brushed becoming a dieing breed......well, not if I have anything to say about it....watch the next 90 days.....3 new motors coming......full new cans and endbells. I am doing crawling ones first, but a race motor will debut not long after. I just can't let a passion die so easily......so don't sell your lathes just yet:ror:


Later EddieO

 

[EGRESSor]

i like the brushless more
i use a Tekin rs and a 13.5t w. 14mm rotor at 3s lipo
starts smooth , drag brake is killer , feels like 50% more runtime compared to a brushed

 

[oldhippie]

i like the brushless more
i use a Tekin rs and a 13.5t w. 14mm rotor at 3s lipo
starts smooth , drag brake is killer , feels like 50% more runtime compared to a brushed

I would love to try the rs. But $300 for the combo and another $50 for a rotor X2 for front and rear? I just can't justify $700+ to fix a problem I don't really have with two fxr combos at $100 each.:???: Now if Tekin would like to hook me up, I'm all in!:mrgreen:
But, I do have a RSpro/6.5 combo coming for my slash 4x4!"thumbsup"