Winching a truck down during your run

[rockwerks]

Save your attitude for someone else. :roll:

I never said that a adjustable WB rig that can adjust past 12.5" was ok.

LOL Just Fawkin with ya.

actually if it stays under 12.5 who cares

 

[badger]

actually if it stays under 12.5 who cares

I agree. I have seen one in action and was not impressed at all. But if someone wants to get beat while crawling with transformer, more power to them.

 

[freetimecrawler]

I wasn't even gonna chime in on this One, (and I probably shouldn't)
But.......... It seems to me if people spent as much time honing their driving skills as they do trying to skirt the rules. It might help them more ;-)

 

[rockwerks]

I wasn't even gonna chime in on this One, (and I probably shouldn't)
But.......... It seems to me if people spent as much time honing their driving skills as they do trying to skirt the rules. It might help them more ;-)

I resemble that remark!:lol:

 

[Grizzly4x4]

I've competed with a rig that could winch down the front suspension in the UTRCRC comps before.

Just like having dig, it did not make up for mediocre driver skills. :lol:

 

[Fishmaxx]

In the original Rules Commitee forum Pinchflat proposed this as a rule on 04-12-2005.

Vehicle adjustment, parts change or vehicle exchange.

While attempting a section you may not change your vehicle in any way. You must finish a section with the same vehicle, in the same configuration, that you started that section with. You cannot swap tires or adjust the vehicles physical parameters in any way during your attempt at a section.

In posts following Grizzly4x4, KevinLongisland, Badger, rbgerrish, and myself agreed. That was 6 of 7 Committee members in 2005.


Are things like winching down, adjusting wheelbase, and ride hieght specifically mentioned.........NO.

IMO.......it says its illegal, but I have been wrong before:shock:

Originally we were trying to keep the Rule as simple as possible because alot of people where complaining about some loooonger versions that had been put out. That was probably a mistake.

If Pinchflat's original wording was used would we be having this discussion right now :?:

 

[JasonInAugusta]

Fish, like I said at Green River...there should be no gray area in the rules.

They need to be written so that everything is cut and dried and not open to interpretation.

When a competitor feels that the rules mean one thing and the guy judging feels they mean another...that's where problems occur.

Fact is: Unless you have absolute perfect 4 link geometry your rigs wheelbase will change as the axle articulates. It's called articulation steer, or "flex steer". One side will have a longer wheelbase, the other will be shorter.

The easiest way to go about it is to outlaw adjustable wheelbase rigs. If you want to winch down the front - fine. That's cycling the suspension.

To enforce the 12.5" wheelbase rule: set the truck down, work the suspension up and down then let it settle. Where it sits when supporting RTR weight is the wheelbase. Jason Teched trucks like this at Moab and it worked just fine.

 

[todd1803]

Combine this with the discussion on digs and radio channels, and it get's even more interesting. If you add a 3 channel limit, do you use the third channel to run a servo to winch down the front on climbs, or for a dig? It would force people to choose which way they want to go.

Reading the rules as published, I see nothing prohibiting a winch-down, provided it is returned to starting height before the finish gate. As for wheelbase, same thing. Move it around all you want during the course of the run, provided the vehicle never exceeds 12.5" at any point in it's range of suspension motion. Rules that were proposed but not added to the final copy really aren't applicable in my mind.

 

[S-Dog]

My turn to chime in "thumbsup".... If I read Pinchflats rule correctly... a wheelbase extender/retractor would change the physical parameters of your rig(making it physically longer/shorter), however winching down the fron does not change the physical parameters..it just using the existing suspension.

In short.... I agree with JIA's last post.

 

[Fishmaxx]

Fish, like I said at Green River...there should be no gray area in the rules.

They need to be written so that everything is cut and dried and not open to interpretation.

When a competitor feels that the rules mean one thing and the guy judging feels they mean another...that's where problems occur.

I understand what you are saying and I really don't disagree "thumbsup"

The trouble is how far do you go? Should the rules be 10 pages? 20? 30?
How many pages before "This is suppose to be fun, so why are you making it so complicated? People complained when this version came out it was to complicated.

Hey if everyone wants iron clad bulletproof rules be ready for something that looks similar to a Rules of Golf book

http://www.randa.org/flash/rules/PDF/RoG2004.pdf

So be careful what you wish for cause you may get it ;-)

 

[rockwerks]

I understand what you are saying and I really don't disagree "thumbsup"

The trouble is how far do you go? Should the rules be 10 pages? 20? 30?
How many pages before "This is suppose to be fun, so why are you making it so complicated? People complained when this version came out it was to complicated.

Hey if everyone wants iron clad bulletproof rules be ready for something that looks similar to a Rules of Golf book

http://www.randa.org/flash/rules/PDF/RoG2004.pdf

So be careful what you wish for cause you may get it ;-)

its to complicated because it doe not say enough. things need to be spelled out.

 

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

Are we talking 2.2 or super here?

2.2 don't need anymore "gadgets". 1 servo & 1 ESC, nuff.

Supers are limited to 4 wheels, that's all. Put your "gadgets" there.


Fish, we need ironclad rules, no loopholes. Too much whiners.

 

[TwistedCreations]

no matter what, your gonna get people working around the rules. I don't care how iron clad you make them. Unless you make it a complete spec class where everyone has to have the same stuff, then they will work around it. you will always get people griping about it, because so and so has more advantage then me and i don't want to build what he has although he kicks my butt all the time because I can't drive to start with..

yes if you write out a 14 page rulebook, you are taking the fun out of this. This is supposed to be a hobby and for fun. Also, it is about advancing our trucks more and more. If you guys write out every single freaggin thing, then we might as well make it a spec class to where no one can do anything different, because then your gonna have another guy griping again :roll:

 

[TwistedCreations]

Fish, we need ironclad rules, no loopholes. Too much whiners.

No, you just need to make it a complete spec class and be done with it... You have to have either this chassis or this or this. Then you can only run moabs or mashers, etc.etc... That way no one can fawkin complain anymore. I swear, grown men crying over a fawkin hobby :roll:

 

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

no matter what, you will always get people griping about it, because so and so has more advantage then me and i don't want to build what he has although he kicks my butt all the time because I can't drive to start with..:roll:

That pretty much says it all.

I don't think we should stiffle inovation, but I also like the simplicity of 2.2's as they are now. Spec the parameters, run anything within those & nothing else.

 

[rockwerks]

Are we talking 2.2 or super here?

2.2 don't need anymore "gadgets". 1 servo & 1 ESC, nuff.

Supers are limited to 4 wheels, that's all. Put your "gadgets" there.


Fish, we need ironclad rules, no loopholes. Too much whiners.

what about clods? they cant run 2 esc's

 

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

What about 'em?

Would that be level playing field?

1 servo for steering & 1 ESC no matter how many motors you run, for 2.2's of course.

 

[TwistedCreations]

no, sheldon said 1 esc..... If they ran 2 esc's, you would be hammering about the dig system again. So it's a no win situation at all. The way I see it, your picking every rule apart completely.

 

[NaZ-T]

Are we talking 2.2 or super here?

2.2 don't need anymore "gadgets". 1 servo & 1 ESC, nuff.

Supers are limited to 4 wheels, that's all. Put your "gadgets" there.

I like this one "thumbsup"

You can still be inovative (supers)
A class more about driving (2.2)

 

[NaZ-T]

At the UTRCRC comps we don't allow you to change anything on the rig while running a course, but you can change B4 and between courses.

So you can winch down or extend your wheelbase B4 you start a course but not during a course.

We haven't had any issues yet and I don't think we will in the future.