Yet Another Rock Force Build

[vonclod]

well i was bored so i threw a brand new orion v2 10t dbl in with the stock gearing @ zero timeing and..wow what a difference, ran it a bit in the house and the motor didnt get warm at all, this might work tekin fxr was a bit warm but it was like that with the 27 with mega timeing..its rated for a 10 so we,ll see

 

[stampedeproject]

Well guys I am back at it again on the RF.

RC Car review article in and now I can get down to doing some serious modification. Been killer just sitting there waiting for it to come back.

One of my grips came through is demonstration-able terms, yep, didn't lock tight the wheels nuts and the unit came back missing one from the photo shoot. ARRGGGHH

Weeelllllll, I sent over my design of the new SPV2 version for the Rock Force to FLM - the SPK1 (Stampede Project Kyosho). We will have to wait and see if they like it and want to start producing them. The RF will definately have a smaller sales base than the AX10, but might be worth at least doing a limited run of them. Hopefully, if they bite, we will have a full production version ready by the 2.2 Midwest Indoor Crawler Challange (3-14-08) since FLM is a Gold sponsor with a display at the event. This is a completely different look than the original SPV2 design so don't be shocked. For now... sorry no peeking until I get an answer.

With that done, I have turned my attention to moving everything DOWN LOW. Stay tuned.

 

[sally1800]

FastLane Rocks I have a Brushless Savage I love it.
I really hope they Cory will make this Rock Force frame. (I was going to buy a Axial just because I like the FLM rig.)

 

[concepts]

Nice write up! With the links, when it says to tighten the one end firm and the other one slightly loosened, what does that mean? 1/8 turn, 1/4 turn.....1/16 turn? Just kinda curious.

Thanks

Jimmy

 

[stampedeproject]

I think they are telling you to make sure the links can screw and unscrew as the articulation works.

But your guess is as good as mine.

 

[goobs]

I think they are telling you to make sure the links can screw and unscrew as the articulation works.

But your guess is as good as mine.

thats what i did tightend them down and then broke one end loose so it would flex easier.

 

[stampedeproject]

OK I will admit it... The RF is starting to piss me off now with just one thing after another. :-(

[BEGIN RANT]

My plan was to do an article in RC Car about how to set up the Dig on the RF, but that story is history becuase honestly I can't reccomend the upgrade becuase it sucks.

The dig engagement is far from an upgrade on the RF, it's an adventure and a long one at that. Even with a High torque servo handling shifting and I have my doubts that the plastic shifting fork will handle that kind of torque and long-term stress. Bind it up with dig engaged and you usually need to shift into reverse before it will re-engage. Coming from Kyosho... this should be plug and play for the masses and it's far far form that. Sure most of the guys on this forum will take the time to tinker with it to get it working properly, but I have over 2 hours of tinkering into the dig setup and it still only works right about 10% of the time... if it's bound in any way forget about it. Kyosho REALLY should have done some testing before they threw this out there.

I was really hopeful with the RF and with high-speed gears added and a brushless sensored Tekin 21.T system on 3S it's everything you could hope for. Damn I wish I had this much smooth low power and top end speed in my Axial. It is so freaking smooth.

The more I work with the RF the more frustrated I get working around some seriously poor engineering and design issues. Why the heck did Kyosho make the axles so wide... the origianl design was going to be a Super?, Someone had thier thumb firmly planted in a bio rich area? I don't know. But that in turn makes steering suck along with steering knuckles which hit the Panbar link mount less than full lock.

Then there are the too short axle outputs and stock aluminum wheel nuts that won't even seat fully with stock wheels. WTF was this an after though? I can hear it now... "oh crap we need to hold the wheels on with something?" The aluminum nuts are in the trash and replaced with real 6mm locking nuts as they should have been in the first place.

And then...I believe EVERYTHING on the bottom of the RF was designed specifically to catch on rocks. Geez could they hang more crap down there. It's like they designed the mold with Legos and then cast that shape... have they heard of rounded corners? :roll:

Out of the box the thing is impressive. Fairly low CG and pretty well tuned, however there is really not much further you can go with the RF after that without SERIOUS surgery.

Then I look across the table at my DNA dig equiped Axial rigs and they just work. In fact my Slingshot SE is running a pretty much stock ARTR drivetrain with MIP Axles and my SPV2 just put me in the finals at our last local event. Link watching a ping pong game I start glancing pack and forth at the RF and my Axial rigs and have to start asking myself "Why am I putting all this time into a seemingly lost cause when I could be crawling?"

I think my RF project is getting shelved until I can complete a MOA conversion... and maybe then it will be a Super.

 

[sally1800]

Look the dig is the dig it sticks. I was at a comp last week and all the Axial dig's were sticking too.

That is why I comp a BERG.

But I have found the RF to be fun to tinker with. I have a SWX chassis on mine now and it is like night and day. Also I run a Tekin 21.5 RS combo with 3s lipo. geared at 18/84 and it is pretty good. Not a BERG but ok.

I would never recomend this to any one look for a comp rig.

I do think this rig was a bomb for Kyosho but I really think the losi will be the same a worm gear is a worm gear.

 

[stampedeproject]

Look the dig is the dig it sticks. I was at a comp last week and all the Axial dig's were sticking too.

That is why I comp a BERG.

But I have found the RF to be fun to tinker with. I have a SWX chassis on mine now and it is like night and day. Also I run a Tekin 21.5 RS combo with 3s lipo. geared at 18/84 and it is pretty good. Not a BERG but ok.

I would never recomend this to any one look for a comp rig.

I do think this rig was a bomb for Kyosho but I really think the losi will be the same a worm gear is a worm gear.

I have the newest Blue dig from DNA with steel internals and they are Super Smooth over the previous version. Sure it's notchy on rare instances but the notchiness on the RF is just un-usable.

I agree the Tekin 21.5 and HS gears are the perfect speed.. but the other problems.... I don't know what Kyosho was thinging... maybe they weren't.

 

[HiloDB1]

Im working on fixing some of the issues with the dig in my RF. Seems the dig plate is where most of my issues are. I will be redesigning it and having it made in a high grade steel. Then the next step is to come up with a totally redesigned dig fork.

 

[stampedeproject]

Im working on fixing some of the issues with the dig in my RF. Seems the dig plate is where most of my issues are. I will be redesigning it and having it made in a high grade steel. Then the next step is to come up with a totally redesigned dig fork.

Looking back at some of the posts around on this forum and on others, my problem is that as a factory solution this should work...PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts. Install dig parts, install servo, and set EPAs and it should work. This is not some bolt on piece of trash from Integy that may or may not work, this is a factory developed dig. I would rather it work reliably and only have two positions than see something like this come out of a manufacturer's factory. With the level of tweaking that is required here, they simply should not have offered it as a solution. I am half temped to rip it out and rig up something with a typical Axial style Dig or R2 style transmission... but then you loose neutral.

Man, it just seems that we are chasing our tales here on the RF and I AM REALLY dissapointed. The engineering ideas in this are really very cool and the durability is like a brick, but the solution as a whole...mmmmm not working.

It's kind of like owning the world coolest .308 sniper rifle, but not matter what you do it allways shoot low and to the left. So you end up carrying the old Remington 777, then you get home and think that you really wish you could get that cool sniper rifle to actually work.

... just really really disappointing for a factory solution. :-(

 

[HiloDB1]

Thats just how it goes some times. Like a lot of thinkgs in the high performance world its not that simple. And if you think this is bad your lucky you dont tech on airsoft guns. Talk about poor QC and engineering. For me its not so bad as Im used to this sort of stuff. Yea it would be great if it just bolts on and works.

 

[stampedeproject]

Thats just how it goes some times. Like a lot of thinkgs in the high performance world its not that simple. And if you think this is bad your lucky you dont tech on airsoft guns. Talk about poor QC and engineering. For me its not so bad as Im used to this sort of stuff. Yea it would be great if it just bolts on and works.

Thanks. I guess it just ticks me off the time and money I dedicated to an article and now, well not something I am going to be a Magazine drone and tell everyone how great it is when it simply doesn't work as advertised. I gotta be honest... and Timmy (the inexperienced) who hasn't discovered this forum yet will think it should work perfect.

I don't mean to bag on Kyosho, but the brain energy was just a bit misdirected kind of like Traxxas comming out with the out in left field Summit. Where the hell does that fit in the crawling scene... it really doesn't unless we push it into a limited Super class? Kinda the way I am thinking about my RF. Out of the box, it's fun and for me performed better than a stock Axial kit. but throw about $50 worth of tuning at the Axial and it will stomp the RF. The Traxxas Summit is a great effort with some interesting thought and engineering also, but why not use the Slayer arms and shorten the wheelbase .2" for a 2.2 USRCCA comp legal rig?

The execution was just off... I guess.

 

[HiloDB1]

Yea I see where your coming from. No point in misleading the ill informed. Tell it how it is and let them make the decision for them self.

 

[JOOTZ]

i got sucked in by all the RF hype too, my main beef is the dig unit, its been off the rig and it was not cheap too, i have my RF for sale but everytime i enter my den it stares back at me like a old dog who had been there. i got an axial and it seems flimsy "FOR ME", what with needing to change the shafts and leaking shocks,,, no crawler put out there was sent out perfect, dont know bout the berg since i dont got one but at least i know the RF can take being thrown at a brick wall.
seems like there was small sales on the RF judging from the number of threads we have on here so there is no person expert enough could monday night quarterback on it, instead of blowing out were doomed puffs, instead come up with a solution rather than "my berg is better than your RF drone", or "this rig is a pain"- sell it, burn it whatever- move on it gets boring.
since Tad sent me a 4 link plate for it (thanks Tad "thumbsup") i may just do the scaler route on it, i mean half scaler/crawler since there is no chassis to do it with and im not comping in the near future. if the losi dig unit works it may have a chance.
im keeping the RF

 

[sally1800]

i got sucked in by all the RF hype too, my main beef is the dig unit, its been off the rig and it was not cheap too, i have my RF for sale but everytime i enter my den it stares back at me like a old dog who had been there. i got an axial and it seems flimsy "FOR ME", what with needing to change the shafts and leaking shocks,,, no crawler put out there was sent out perfect, dont know bout the berg since i dont got one but at least i know the RF can take being thrown at a brick wall.
seems like there was small sales on the RF judging from the number of threads we have on here so there is no person expert enough could monday night quarterback on it, instead of blowing out were doomed puffs, instead come up with a solution instead of "my berg is better than your RF drone", or "this rig is a pain"- sell it, burn it whatever- move on it gets boring.
since Tad sent me a 4 link plate for it (thanks Tad "thumbsup") i may just do the scaler route on it, i mean half scaler/crawler since there is no chassis to do it with and im not comping in the near future. if the losi dig unit works it may have a chance.
im keeping the RF


Glad to here your keeping the rock take a look at tad new chassis it looks pretty good. This thing has been really fun to screw with.

The way I got it set now is like a new truck all you need now is a new chassis and some new shock and links.

$400 axles

 

[Reflection]

Thats all because you guys have been building them wrong from the git go.....

 

[stampedeproject]

Thats all because you guys have been building them wrong from the git go.....

Well please... Tells more.

I do have that same old dog feeling... Some parts are so good others... Well bite my hand

 

[JOOTZ]

Thats all because you guys have been building them wrong from the git go.....

Well please... Tells more.

I do have that same old dog feeling... Some parts are so good others... Well bite my hand

+11tymillion on that, who let the dogs out 8)8)8)

 

[Reflection]

:lol:
I'm just razzin you guys. The Kysho rig is nice and the parts are typical Kyosho quality. They just dropped the ball on several aspects of the truck. Granted,it was designed in Japan and chances are,it was geared around the style of crawling they have over there. I feel if a few things are done differently,it could be a kickass little truck. I'm waiting on a few parts to show up before I start my build. I've also gotta build me a few parts at work to use. Mine will be a super class build,but it could be done in a 2.2 version as well.