.....$$$$ Droop ?? .....

[m&mkrawler]

Originally Posted by NeXt559

not just putting the spring in the shock body, making sure to put it in the shock body around the shock shaft under the piston.

i know it sounds weird and doesnt make much sense when ur trying to picture it your mind. i know when i was first experimenting w/ droop the whole time i was taking apart my shocks i thought "the shock fully compressed while at rest? this is never gonna work"

but it's one of those things that you have to try out for yourself and like many have said its all about preferance, and the time you're willing to invest into tuning your suspension

so if I understand it right....I can't just unscrew the top and drop it in..? I found a shock that drops right in and goes around the shaft....but your saying I need to make sure its under the....? I'm sorry I'm confused

[Offroader5]

If you're using a "standard" sized shock body, you could also use Mini-T springs. The outer coil springs on the Mini-T shocks fit inside many of the shock bodies. This gives you all the spring rate options available for the Mini-T shocks without having to guess what the rate of a spring is from a hardware store. This makes it easier to play with the setup and make adjustments easier.

[5150bronco]

m&m...., pull the shaft out than put the spring in and put the piston in.....

thanks off for the suggestion. i am going to go ahead and search for those mini-t's instead of going to ace/depot.

[m&mkrawler]

Originally Posted by 5150bronco

m&m...., pull the shaft out than put the spring in and put the piston in.....

thanks off for the suggestion. i am going to go ahead and search for those mini-t's instead of going to ace/depot.

RIGHT ON....THANKYOU to all have posted so far but another question for you guys...

How does the shock extend once on the rig...? The shock is fully compressed..right? Is it the weight of the wheels...? SORRY help :-)))

[Dirtnappaul]

mini t springs from team losi work great. I used the rear springs form it and
had good luck running it that way.

[FireWire79]

Alright, so I'm a smart guy, a genius if you will, ;) but this does boggle the mind. Compressed while at rest, how/why does that work better than regular shocks? Do they decompress when they come off the ground? How does that work?

Thanks for the clarity so that I can get ahead of the game plan.

[rckjeep]

M&M

I was the Judge on course 1 today and think you'd be better suited to run some short shocks. What i've found with droop is the uncontrolled down travel makes the rig less stable. I run MINI LST shocks, but some buggy front shocks may work out better for you. Try some HPI's They have a ball joint at both ends and usually don't leak much. Give it a try and have some patience, setting up a comp level rig can take some time. Just enjoy the learning process. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.

[m&mkrawler]

Originally Posted by rckjeep

M&M

I was the Judge on course 1 today and think you'd be better suited to run some short shocks. What i've found with droop is the uncontrolled down travel makes the rig less stable. I run MINI LST shocks, but some buggy front shocks may work out better for you. Try some HPI's They have a ball joint at both ends and usually don't leak much. Give it a try and have some patience, setting up a comp level rig can take some time. Just enjoy the learning process. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Right on....THANKYOU so much for yesterday...I realy apreciate the help and info you just gave me now. I did learn some new things and you're right...comp rig will take a little time.. I had hella fun @ the bean. My only problem was the terrain....not being able to see to well realy made it hard for me but you guys helped alot..
I am totally up in the air about keepng this edge chassis..Do you think the HotBodies 4" shocks I have now should stay....?

[NeXt559]

Originally Posted by FireWire79

Alright, so I'm a smart guy, a genius if you will, ;) but this does boggle the mind. Compressed while at rest, how/why does that work better than regular shocks? Do they decompress when they come off the ground? How does that work?

Thanks for the clarity so that I can get ahead of the game plan.

you have to make sure you have enough weight in the axles and wheels to make the shock decompress

and like i said the idea of a droop suspension sounds really weird
but it's somehitng you have to try, to understand. kinda like sky diving: *why the F**k would somone jump out of a perfectly good airplane?"

imo the main reason for using droop is for a lower cg and more stable rig in off camber situations.

[dkur]

I would like to add to the confusion. Perhaps droop may be for you or not. It depends on your preference as everyone has said.
If you would like a lower CG you might just replace the shock oil with a heavier weight. Axial gives you 30wt. maybe try 60wt. On top of that try a softer spring and shorter spring. Instead of the longer Axial O.E.M. spring try an HPI MT spring or maybe even an E-Maxx spring. On my rig I changed the oil to a thicker weight and replaced the springs with a lighter shorter spring. The CG lowered and when the truck wheel hit a particular deep hole the articulation wasn't affected. On the Edge chassis though you are probably going to run into the problem of high CG no matter what. It is rather heavy.
Another setup you might try is to remove the spring totally from the front and use a shorter lighter spring in the rear. That way when you are up an incline the spring is actually pushing the rear of the truck away from the rock while the front is pulling the weight in. This works well for climbing but when descending it works against you.
Also you need to remember to weight your tires. This will help to compensate for the extra weight of the chassis. Maybe go 8oz. in each front tire and 3oz. in each rear.
Oh, there are so many things you could do. Be inventive and don't be afraid to try different setups. You will come across one that works for you and your style of driving.

[rckjeep]

Originally Posted by m&mkrawler

Right on....THANKYOU so much for yesterday...I realy apreciate the help and info you just gave me now. I did learn some new things and you're right...comp rig will take a little time.. I had hella fun @ the bean. My only problem was the terrain....not being able to see to well realy made it hard for me but you guys helped alot..
I am totally up in the air about keepng this edge chassis..Do you think the HotBodies 4" shocks I have now should stay....?

I haven't seen an Edge chassis perform the way I'd like. Not to say it couldn't be a competitive chassis. Tube chassis do usually have a higher CG. Though I have made my tube chassis "Mugsy" do some amazing things. Some of the Nor-Cal guys can atest to its performance. I use 4" shocks with shorter springs to run a split droop/compression system. I've limited the front shocks down travel a bit by installing some spacers under the shock piston inside the shock body. My center clearence is around 2 1/4", low yes, stable yes. By using a bit of droop and a bit of regular compression susp. I have the best of both worlds.

What's your center clearence currently?

How long are your shocks, eye to eye with the suspension at rest?

Are your lower links level with the ground, at rest?

[5150bronco]

i agree with dkur about the weight. that is what i did and it seems to work.
so the spacer inside the shock.....? What about using the axial shock damper..? How big is the space and it just slides on the shaft inside the shock..., similar to running spring for droop, right?

thanks.

[rckjeep]

Originally Posted by 5150bronco

i agree with dkur about the weight. that is what i did and it seems to work.
so the spacer inside the shock.....? What about using the axial shock damper..? How big is the space and it just slides on the shaft inside the shock..., similar to running spring for droop, right?

thanks.

Not sure what a shock damper is, I'm guessing a small rubber tube. If the piston shaft will slide thru it run it. I am using a plastic piece about 10mm long. You are correct.

Think of it this way. When on flat ground the CG is normally just above & a tad behind your lower link mount. When climbing a hill the CG moves back a bit, because the vertical distance between both front & rear axles is getting shorter. When running a droop set up & climbing a hill it moves back and up because you have the front axle moving down and away from the chassis in effect raising the CG. As the front axle droops the chassis gets higher. Then depending on your rear link geometry & your anti-squat # it could effectively raise the front end more causing a roll-over. When running a droop set up you want anti-squat. During acceleration you want the rear end to rise up a tad putting more force on the front axle. If it's set up with no anti-squat it's going reduce the load on the front axle when accelerating.

Set your rig on a bench or the counter, somewhere you can get down to its level and watch the rig under acceleration. Give it gas and watch the suspension. If running a droop set up and you have proper geometry the rear end of the chassis will rise(increasng front end force). If not set up correctly the front end will rise(decreasing it). Anti-squat can affect normal suspension set up just as much and help with torque roll too.

To find your anti-squat # do a search for "anti-squat calculator" either on google or on pirate4x4.com There is tons of info on Pirate4x4 that can help if you read up.

Hopefully this didn't confuse anyone. I had to re-read it twice before posting.

[5150bronco]

Originally Posted by rckjeep

Not sure what a shock damper is, I'm guessing a small rubber tube. If the piston shaft will slide thru it run it. I am using a plastic piece about 10mm long. You are correct.

Think of it this way. When on flat ground the CG is normally just above & a tad behind your lower link mount. When climbing a hill the CG moves back a bit, because the vertical distance between both front & rear axles is getting shorter. When running a droop set up & climbing a hill it moves back and up because you have the front axle moving down and away from the chassis in effect raising the CG. As the front axle droops the chassis gets higher. Then depending on your rear link geometry & your anti-squat # it could effectively raise the front end more causing a roll-over. When running a droop set up you want anti-squat. During acceleration you want the rear end to rise up a tad putting more force on the front axle. If it's set up with no anti-squat it's going reduce the load on the front axle when accelerating.

Set your rig on a bench or the counter, somewhere you can get down to its level and watch the rig under acceleration. Give it gas and watch the suspension. If running a droop set up and you have proper geometry the rear end of the chassis will rise(increasng front end force). If not set up correctly the front end will rise(decreasing it). Anti-squat can affect normal suspension set up just as much and help with torque roll too.

To find your anti-squat # do a search for "anti-squat calculator" either on google or on pirate4x4.com There is tons of info on Pirate4x4 that can help if you read up.

Hopefully this didn't confuse anyone. I had to re-read it twice before posting.

Hey,

yes it is like a tube. Okay. I will use it.

"When on flat ground the CG is normally just above & a tad behind your lower link mount"..........Is this vertical?

I want anti-squat then??!! k.

Thanks so much!! That actually made a lot of sense compared to others explanations.

Okay....so I will search on pirate. Thanks for the illustration now i can visually see and know what to look for. Really appreciate your help!

[rckjeep]

Originally Posted by 5150bronco

Hey,

yes it is like a tube. Okay. I will use it.

"When on flat ground the CG is normally just above & a tad behind your lower link mount"..........Is this vertical?

I want anti-squat then??!! k.

Thanks so much!! That actually made a lot of sense compared to others explanations.

Okay....so I will search on pirate. Thanks for the illustration now i can visually see and know what to look for. Really appreciate your help!

Not sure what you mean in regards to "Is this vertical". Think of CG as a ball of mass floating in a box on the chassis. As the rig moves around the course the ball rolls around in the box. Moving back when climbing moving to the side when sidehilling and so on.

Oh and your welcome

[5150bronco]

Originally Posted by rckjeep

Not sure what you mean in regards to "Is this vertical". Think of CG as a ball of mass floating in a box on the chassis. As the rig moves around the course the ball rolls around in the box. Moving back when climbing moving to the side when sidehilling and so on.

Oh and your welcome

Okay, i got it. i ment vert like the cg is on vertical plane, moves up and down, but now i understand it moves both ways.

thanks.

[hard rocker]

when i bought my edge chassis from TCS, I also got the edge hardware kit which comes with internal shock springs to convert your stock axial shocks into internal spring shocks (Droop set up) but it still needs addition springs to go into top part of the shock body just under the shock cap. home depot also sells a bag of assorted springs...

try doing a search, I once saw someone posted up pics on how to assemble your shocks for droop set up....

[rckjeep]

Originally Posted by 5150bronco

Okay, i got it. i ment vert like the cg is on vertical plane, moves up and down, but now i understand it moves both ways.

thanks.

It moves in 3 planes, Up & down, side to side & for & aft.

I am really suprised that this hasn't gotten more replies. With the amount of rigs running droop here on RCC & the high # of them that I've seen not working for sh!t, it's suprising.

[Cycleeric]

Just got an AX10 and trying out the droop suspension. Should the shocks be bottomed out while resting? Im running them with 30w oil in the stock Axial shocks now.

[MrNate]

My advice would be to head to your hardware store and buy a few different types of compression springs. I got about a dozen of them for just a little over $5 and was able to play with different lengths and stiffnesses. I settled on a slightly longer and stiffer (dirty) spring in the rear and shorter and softer in the front. Works awesome!