reduce torque twist on new deadbolt

[bugc]

I just picked up a new ax10 deadbolt and it has a lot of torque twist. is this normal for ax10's? seems like a serious problem for a brand new model out of the box.

if this is "normal" how do I fix it?

[Correll]

Flip your lower shock mounts to lower it 1/2". Then thread the right rear spring down for firmer tension. Both those things helped mine alot. Mine will still lift the left front tire on pavement. I am running a 550 motor with LOW gearing tho. I cannot post pics or I would of mine. If you research flipping the lower shock mounts you'll find some articles on it. I also bought the axial frame braces for mine.

[fyrstormer]

Define "a lot of torque twist". My Wraith has the same drivetrain, and while it does lean a bit when driving forward, it's never been enough to actually affect its crawling capabilities. Pretty much anything you do to improve the torque twist is going to make the suspension stiffer, thus reducing its ability to climb over stuff.

Maybe look into getting Dlux Trusses for your axles. Supposedly raising the upper link mount connection points reduces torque twist without affecting overall suspension compliance.

[bugc]

I am not sure if everyone would agree with my definition, but on 35+ degree inclines with a lot of traction, the left front will hang up in the air about 2-3 inches above the surface.

If that is normal, I guess I'll get used to it. I was just surprised that a rock crawler like the ax10 would have this issue. I was expecting the chassis to be designed to keep all four wheels in contact with the ground during climbs.

[fyrstormer]

Ah, that's not the kind of torque-twist I was thinking of. Yes, climbing up steep inclines requires some modification to keep the wheels on the ground. Let me show you how I fixed that problem:



That's a half-pound of lead ballast on top of the servo. (it might seem like a dangerous place to put so much weight, but the tires are so squishy that the weight doesn't actually get jolted around that much. I'm still using the original 3M Command adhesive strips, even after multiple trips through the local creek, and the servo case shows no signs of denting.) You can also buy steel "Beef Tubes" that fit inside the axles to strengthen them, and they add a few ounces more weight too.

Also, the electronics on the AX10 and Wraith can be reversed so the battery tray is in the front. I decided I didn't want to do that on my Wraith, because I wanted the electronics hidden and the battery easily-accessible, but the AX10 has a fully removable body shell so there's no reason not to move the battery tray to the front.

[fyrstormer]

Oh, also, if you haven't put an overdrive gear in the front diff yet, do it. It helps immensely with turning and climbing. Axial offers three ratios: 14/36, 13/38 (stock), and 13/43. Hot Racing also offers those same ratios and their gears are less expensive but plenty good enough. I've been using Hot Racing's 14/36 in the front and 13/38 in the back since about two weeks after I bought my Wraith a year and a half ago.

[Norton]

Knuckle weights and under-drive gears in the rear, simple as that.

[firstpasstommy]

which direction is your motor facing? if your spur gear is facing towards the back of your rig then you need to turn your motor around! that will take most of the torque twist out..

[fyrstormer]

That depends. Putting the motor on the side of the chassis that gets lifted by torque-twist helps a bit on flat ground, but the kind of torque-twist the OP is describing would happen regardless of how the main chassis behaves. His problem is caused by the front axle being too light to keep both of its tires on the ground when climbing steep inclines.

As for underdrive gears in the rear: underdrive in the rear has the same effect as overdrive in the front. You can also do both, but then you'll get tons of torque-twist on flat ground as the two axles try to pull the chassis in half. (they won't be able to do that, of course, but the buildup of torque will still make the chassis lean a lot.) The choice of overdrive in the front vs. underdrive in the rear is really a matter of preference; I went with overdrive in the front because I want my Wraith to be able to go kinda-fast in 2nd gear (I have the AX2 2-speed gearbox), and the overdrive gear is 13% faster than stock, whereas the underdrive gear is 13% slower than stock -- every little bit helps, depending on what your goal is.

[firstpasstommy]

i agree with and run underdrive/overdrive gears but adding all that weight up high is actually not gonna benefit as much when you can change the geometry and keep the weight low! i would rather add weight down low(low center gravity) with tubes or knuckle weights and have better geometry and less strain on the rig!! less heat-more battery life!

[JohnB]

Not the best option, but you can experiment with a stiffer rear spring opposite the front tire that's lifting. So, if the left front corner is lifting, add a stiffer spring to the right rear shock. If I remember correctly, the OG AX-10 Scorpion RTC was equipped with one blue (stiff) spring in the rear.

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by firstpasstommy

i agree with and run underdrive/overdrive gears but adding all that weight up high is actually not gonna benefit as much when you can change the geometry and keep the weight low! i would rather add weight down low(low center gravity) with tubes or knuckle weights and have better geometry and less strain on the rig!! less heat-more battery life!

If you can get knuckle weights, they're definitely the best way to add weight to the axle. Steel "beef tubes" are also good for several reasons: strength, something solid for the knuckle/lockout screws to thread into, and extra weight down low. BlueMonkeyRC makes knuckle weights that fit the stock knuckles and Vanquish aluminum knuckles. I wanted green knuckles though, to match the overall color scheme, so I had to go with a block of lead ballast instead. The weight is higher than it would be with knuckle weights, but it's attached directly to the axle so it doesn't lean when the main chassis leans, and it's centrally located so the axle has to lean at a pretty steep angle before the lead ballast's center of gravity falls outside the wheelbase. My setup is more stable than it looks.

Here's a lean-test I did after increasing the weight of the lead ballast to a full 8 ounces:



I thought I had a picture of my Wraith climbing a steep incline like what the OP described, but apparently I haven't uploaded it yet. So in the meantime, here's a picture of it climbing up a small waterfall instead:

[jaymann]

I mirrored the Trans that helped a lot, as well as the other free mods.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Phatz]

Hi Folks, if you look @ your 2nd gen ax10 chassis, you will see on the frame side that you can raise the upper link mounting for both the front or the rear, its just something free to try, your can also make your own tubes for the axles outta brass that adds weight in a nice low place, since going to 3S and a 21.5 turn brushless motor mine will flip on pavement and lift the left front almost everytime I NAIL the gas, but thats just the power that my setup puts out. I also plan on getting DLux's axle braces, that looks to be a NICE system.

[Creepcreep]

As a thought, my cure to this problem was cutting down on articulation. Many of the comp guys will do that first thing oddly enough, and I did it recently and it actually made a dramatic difference in torque roll and general crawling performance. Seems counterintuitive, but it works!

[Duuuuuuuude]

Adding weight and stiffening shocks are bandaids. You aren't fixing anything, just covering it up.

Proper tuning and a handful of parts will take care of most of it (you can't remove it entirely) and won't leave you with a suspension that is too stiff to work and 3 lbs of unsightly lead stuck on your axles.

Another 4 Link Thread

[fyrstormer]

Adding weight isn't a bandaid. It's a tuning option. It's just not a tuning option you prefer.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

Adding weight isn't a bandaid. It's a tuning option. It's just not a tuning option you prefer.

Yes, it's a tuning option, but it's used for balance, not for masking other issues. Plopping several ounces or more on an axle just to keep a tire from lifting is a bandaid.

I haven't added weight to my rigs in years...haven't needed to.

[fyrstormer]

So, where/how do you draw the line between "band-aids" and legitimate tuning options? As far as I'm concerned, if doing something accomplishes what you want, it doesn't matter if it's "against the rules" as defined by other people who do the same thing a different way. (unless you're competing in a regulated class, of course.)

I put ballast on my front axle of my Wraith because it allows me to run the battery in the rear, where it's easily accessible. Also, the ballast on the front axle is lower than the battery would be if the stock battery tray were simply installed under the hood, and I didn't have to hack up the interior to make room for the battery to sit lower in the front than the stock battery tray would allow. I also didn't have to mount the hood on hinges and pins so it could be opened to allow access to a front-mounted battery, and having both the ballast *and* the battery in the vehicle increases the overall weight of the vehicle so the tires are pressed into the ground harder. It handles about 95% how I want it to, the other 5% consisting of being unable to climb muddy tree roots immediately after the wheels have been dunked in water. Everything else I want it to do, it does.

[Duuuuuuuude]

A "bandaid" is something that is quick, easy, and doesn't really solve the problem, it just masks it, and usually causes issues elsewhere. It basically moves the issue somewhere else or creates an entire new problem.

A "legitimate tuning option" is something that has very little (if any) negative impact, and if there is a downside, it is easily corrected without adding more problems to chase down.

Think of tuning like a litter box. Covering the turds with scented litter is the quick and easy bandaid, but the turds are still there even though you can't see or smell them. At some point you're just going to end up with a box full of turds. The proper way to deal with the turds is to deal with them directly and remove them. Not as quick, not as easy, but better in the long run.

Saying your rig goes almost everywhere you want it to is not a measure of performance. Everyone says that until they meet someone that can go where they can't.

If you need me to explain why throwing on gobs of weight is an bandaid that causes other issues, I can do it.