Bomber motor options - brushed or brushless?

[Jim85IROC]

Another motor thread? No way!

I just got a Bomber kit last night that I'm going to start putting together. My intended use for the Bomber is trailing and crawling. I'd like enough speed for the trailing to be fun, and enough low speed torque & control for it to crawl well too.

I've got a few brushless motors hanging around, but not many brushed. My goal is to try not to sink a ton of money into this build, at least initially. I'd like to use one of the brushless motors & ESCs that I've already got, but I'm not opposed to some affordable brushed options either. I'm not buying a $100 brushed motor.

So, right now I've got a 17.5t sensored Turnigy motor, a 13.5t sensored Turnigy motor, and a 10.5t sensored Turnigy motor. These are all 2 pole ROAR approved sensored 540s that I used in stadium trucks and buggies.

For brushed motors, I was looking at the Traxxas 21t 550. How will the Titan 21t compare in torque & wheel speed to one of the 540 brushless motors?

[Brake Weight]

Traxxas 550 and a HobbyWing 1080/Crawler ESC.

[Jim85IROC]

but why? Throwing suggestions at me don't help unless I can understand why that suggestion is better than another one. Better torque than a 17.5? Better drag brake? Better low speed operation? All of the above?

[JatoTheRipper]

If you don't put a powerful, sensored, brushless system in the Bomber you are missing out. A brushed system will allow you to crawl with it. A Castle Mamba X or Mamba Monster X and a Tekin ROC412 will allow you to crawl and still get in fast fun.

[Jim85IROC]

It sounds like a great way to break a bunch of expensive parts too. I've seen some of the high end stuff that you guys keep breaking.

I've got a room full of RCs for when I want fast fun. I'm really focused more on trailing/crawling for this rig.

[calcagno45]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

If you don't put a powerful, sensored, brushless system in the Bomber you are missing out. A brushed system will allow you to crawl with it. A Castle Mamba X or Mamba Monster X and a Tekin ROC412 will allow you to crawl and still get in fast fun.

Agreed. The Bomber is a versatile platform and IMO sensored brushless is the way to utilize the versatility.

A Titan 21T is certainly a good choice for crawling and trailing but will lack in the speed department. Many still run this option. Many have also run the 17.5 and 13.5t motors in the Bomber as well. It's all up to you and what you are expecting to get from the Bomber.

I tried a 17.5 in mine on 3s and thought it was a bit slow. Crawling and resolution was good but speed sucked. I'm guessing 4s would have up helped. I settled on a Puller Pro 3500kv, the a Brood Vigor 540 3600kv.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by calcagno45

Agreed. The Bomber is a versatile platform and IMO sensored brushless is the way to utilize the versatility.

I'm sure I'll get there eventually, but I just bought the kit, and I want to get a 2nd vehicle for my son so that we can do this together. All that will have me pretty much tapped out.

A Titan 21T is certainly a good choice for crawling and trailing but will lack in the speed department. Many still run this option. Many have also run the 17.5 and 13.5t motors in the Bomber as well. It's all up to you and what you are expecting to get from the Bomber.

Trying to establish expectations is what this thread is all about. I'm familiar with how different motors behave in higher speed vehicles, but this game is new to me. I'll end up trying a lot of different stuff in the truck so that I can form my own opinions over time, but at least initially I want to try and start with a reasonable setup that I can use as a baseline. Since I'm coming into this cold, I'm trying to figure out what that baseline should be.

I tried a 17.5 in mine on 3s and thought it was a bit slow. Crawling and resolution was good but speed sucked. I'm guessing 4s would have up helped. I settled on a Puller Pro 3500kv, the a Brood Vigor 540 3600kv.

I've got a 17.5, 13.5 and 10.5 at my disposal, so I have some options. My assumption from my higher speed experiences is that any of those motors will have more torque than the Titan 550, but it's a bit of a mystery to me how much low speed control I'll have. I'm confident that a 550 with a 1080 ESC will give me good control, but the torque & speed are an unknown for me. Neither is perfect, but figuring out which setup lands closer to the "perfect" combination is what I'm hoping to gain some insight on.

[calcagno45]

I'd definitely start with what you already have and try those out. You didn't mention what ESC you have already so if you're in the market, then I'd look at the Mamba X. The newest firmware is silkily smooth and the AUX wire for dragbrake is great with the Bomber. It'll run brushed and brushless and go up to 6s if you need. Pretty much a do all ESC.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by calcagno45

I'd definitely start with what you already have and try those out. You didn't mention what ESC you have already so if you're in the market, then I'd look at the Mamba X. The newest firmware is silkily smooth and the AUX wire for dragbrake is great with the Bomber. It'll run brushed and brushless and go up to 6s if you need. Pretty much a do all ESC.

I've got a few ESCs hanging around, but the one I want to run is one of my X-Car 120A ESCs. I've updated those with the latest Hobbywing firmware, and will have a lot of setup options available to me via the USB interface. Again, it may not be the best choice, but I already have it, so if I go brushless, that's where I'll start.

[Brake Weight]

Well, then you've got all you need to get started. I'd go with the lowest kV you've got and run that 120a ESC. Then go from there. Volt up or up the kV as needed. I find that pulling the roof is a lot easier than dropping the skid to change motors, pinions, and/or spurs.

[CoolRunning]

I've had a 17.5 turn sensored Brushless motor in my Bomber and a 550 21T. This is JMO but I personally liked the brushed motor far more for a number of reasons.

- Brushed suited my personal Bomber better as the truck 'can' go fast-ish but TBBH, it's not a good fast truck. Locked diffs, crawler tyres, high COG, floppy suspension, solid axles etc means it's constantly rolling over and flipping over forwards and it's really not fun to drive quick. You 'can' make it go fast and you can make it go slow but it's never going to do both well.

- Brushed had instant fwd/reverse without any delay

- Brushed had a FAR better drag brake

- Brushed had way better low speed control, precision and resolution and a super slow creep and decent ability

- Brushed can tolerate water without issue and is super affordable to replace.

A 2 speed provides brushed systems with say 24km/h wheel speed and cool crawling potential. Not exactly a rocket but it'll be super reliable.

Brushless is faster but no where near as precise as well as faster. You have to gear down a sensored system to have good low precision and then the high end isn't really much faster than a 2 speed brushed system.

You can do so many things like setup a 2 speed sensored brushless system and have a great all round rig but you are limited by what you want out of it. For example, if I wanted a fast truck, I'd choose something else like a Rock Rey or SCT but for a slow to mid speed all rounder (trail truck/crawler) a brushed 2 speed Bomber is great and seriously reliable.

I personally would not run 540 size motors in a Bomber as they will run hot.

I also would not spend money on a brushed system if I wasn't to go 2 speed as it'll get cooked. 2 speeds etc aren't that expensive and are simple to install and very reliable but they are never going to be brushless quick. They will though provide you with unparalleled drivability and control and cheap replacement.

I would never personally drive a MMX/ROC 412HD setup through water and dirt as $550AUD is a lot of dough to replace. A $30 brushed motor? No worries.

I think it's all ultimately what you want out of the truck. I've never wanted a insanely fast Bomber that I wanted to spend loads of money on. My RR is already far too fast and kind of useless half the time. I've come to love my slower trucks more in fact as they are just more fun more often. There is something to be said for slower stuff but TBH, none of my crawlers are under about 18 km/h which is pretty quick for a crawler.

Nothing is wrong and a demented billet Bomber with insane power would likely be very cool.

A Bomber with a TRX4 front axle in it so you can unlock the diff and then a 2 speed sensored 550 can brushless system would make serious sense. That would be a rather awesome truck!

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

I've had a 17.5 turn sensored Brushless motor in my Bomber and a 550 21T. This is JMO but I personally liked the brushed motor far more for a number of reasons.

- Brushed suited my personal Bomber better as the truck 'can' go fast-ish but TBBH, it's not a good fast truck. Locked diffs, crawler tyres, high COG, floppy suspension, solid axles etc means it's constantly rolling over and flipping over forwards and it's really not fun to drive quick. You 'can' make it go fast and you can make it go slow but it's never going to do both well.

- Brushed had instant fwd/reverse without any delay

- Brushed had a FAR better drag brake

- Brushed had way better low speed control, precision and resolution and a super slow creep and decent ability

- Brushed can tolerate water without issue and is super affordable to replace.

A 2 speed provides brushed systems with say 24km/h wheel speed and cool crawling potential. Not exactly a rocket but it'll be super reliable.

Brushless is faster but no where near as precise as well as faster. You have to gear down a sensored system to have good low precision and then the high end isn't really much faster than a 2 speed brushed system.

You can do so many things like setup a 2 speed sensored brushless system and have a great all round rig but you are limited by what you want out of it. For example, if I wanted a fast truck, I'd choose something else like a Rock Rey or SCT but for a slow to mid speed all rounder (trail truck/crawler) a brushed 2 speed Bomber is great and seriously reliable.

I personally would not run 540 size motors in a Bomber as they will run hot.

I also would not spend money on a brushed system if I wasn't to go 2 speed as it'll get cooked. 2 speeds etc aren't that expensive and are simple to install and very reliable but they are never going to be brushless quick. They will though provide you with unparalleled drivability and control and cheap replacement.

I would never personally drive a MMX/ROC 412HD setup through water and dirt as $550AUD is a lot of dough to replace. A $30 brushed motor? No worries.

I think it's all ultimately what you want out of the truck. I've never wanted a insanely fast Bomber that I wanted to spend loads of money on. My RR is already far too fast and kind of useless half the time. I've come to love my slower trucks more in fact as they are just more fun more often. There is something to be said for slower stuff but TBH, none of my crawlers are under about 18 km/h which is pretty quick for a crawler.

Nothing is wrong and a demented billet Bomber with insane power would likely be very cool.

A Bomber with a TRX4 front axle in it so you can unlock the diff and then a 2 speed sensored 550 can brushless system would make serious sense. That would be a rather awesome truck!

Which brushless systems have you tried?

[DukeMinnix]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

I would never personally drive a MMX/ROC 412HD setup through water and dirt as $550AUD is a lot of dough to replace. A $30 brushed motor? No worries.

this is the only downfall of a bomber with brushless, but unless youre planning to submarine your rig on trail rides, its easy enough to waterproof the mambas and roc motors, videos all over youtube give you step by step.
I don't think I would trust said methods for sustained underwater fun, but creek crossing or heavy rain should be of little to no consequence.

[Brake Weight]

Traxxas has a brushed motor that's a step up from the 550. I think it's a 750 or maybe 775 that goes in one of the boats they sell. So it's at least 3s capable if not 4s. That large of a can on 3-4s should be plenty of power and 'waterproof'.

[Jboucher]

I am building a kit as well and will be going with a Traxxas 21T 550 motor until i can afford a Holmes hobbies Crawlmaster Pro 10T 550 or the 13T 540.

Much less worried about burning the 20$CAN Traxxas 21T then a 100$US 5-slot crawlmaster...

Spend a little less on motor and get a Quickrun 1080 so you can spend more $$ on upgrades from Vanquish

[DukeMinnix]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

I am building a kit as well and will be going with a Traxxas 21T 550 motor until i can afford a Holmes hobbies Crawlmaster Pro 10T 550 or the 13T 540.

Much less worried about burning the 20$CAN Traxxas 21T then a 100$US 5-slot crawlmaster...

Spend a little less on motor and get a Quickrun 1080 so you can spend more $$ on upgrades from Vanquish

that hobbywing 1080 is a good esc for brushed motors. I have one and its been dunked more than once and keeps on truckin... more than I can say for some servos. It has just enough adjustability to be useful for a novice without being overly technical like my mamba with castle link is.

[Brake Weight]

Traxxas makes a 24t 550, too.

https://www.horizonhobby.com/SearchD...ce=Q&pageView=

[Jboucher]

Thats a 5slot armature, interesting...
Looks too big to fit without modifications

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Brake Weight]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

Thats a 5slot armature, interesting...
Looks too big to fit without modifications

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I got a 4068 brushless in mine with no modding.

[Jim85IROC]

I decided that for now I'm going to go with a 13.5t brushless with an x-car 120a esc, since I already have it. I have a 17.5t and a 10.5t too, so I can adjust up and down as needed. If I don’t like any of it, then I'll buy a brushed setup.