2 stupid newbie questions needs answer

[Mysterious]

1) Going to buy DH Comp II wheels for my XR10, set of 4.... for the spacers...

axial, losi, berg, rc4wd, traxxas, rock crawling, tamiya,

I'd need a pair of 335s for the front and 585s for the rear to put it close to stock, correct?

2) Traxxas 2660 big bore shocks are going on it.... what shock oil weight do I use? 30wt?

[Volture'Z]

im not much help what so ever. but i see people running 30wt oil in there rear shocks then lower wt in there front so from like 15-25 or somthing..

[HarleyRider]

Mysterious.

I run Vp DH comp II wheels in the front on my xr. 335 spacers will run the front wheels into the steering knuckles. I tried 460's on the front and was knicking the knuckle on the servo side. I would run the 585's on the front.

Question. Why DH's on front and rear? The DH wheel is heavy itself and you commonly don't need that much weight in the rear. If you like the DH wheel profile get them for the front and something like the SLW V4 in a 1.35 width for the rear. Save ya a little $$$.

I run the DH's in front with a 585 spacer and SLW V1's in the rear with a 600 spacer in the rear. Is close to stock tracking width.

For the shocks. I also run the Traxxas big bore shocks. Would start with 30wt oil and tune from there. Also pick you up a couple sets of losi mini T front springs and try the red or pink depending on the surface your running on.

Hope this helps. Ask away if any more questions. Haven't posted much here on RCC but have been messing with this stuff for a while.

[Mysterious]

How heavy is a DH Comp II compared to a SLW V4? I did like them for the look and the ability to easily add/remove the bullet weights. How closely do the rims look alike? I kinda wanted continuity across my crawler.

[asian195]

Performance wise SLWs in the rear and DH in front would be better.
Maybe think about SLWs all the way around and knuckle weights would be the Preferred method

[sacdrums]

I run dh2's all the way around, 3 weights in the fronts and none in the rear. 460 hubs front and 585 rear, this does work. The wheels were from my ax10 where it worked really well. When I have the extra dough I'll be switching to slw's all the way around with knuck weights on the front. If yer about to buy wheels go with the slw's it's so much better for the xr... Food for thought

[HarleyRider]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

How heavy is a DH Comp II compared to a SLW V4? I did like them for the look and the ability to easily add/remove the bullet weights. How closely do the rims look alike? I kinda wanted continuity across my crawler.

DH's at 1.035 width size are 4.30 oz each, while the SLW V4's at 1.35 width size are 2.0 oz each. Save a little over 2 oz per wheel. As far as continuity in looks the V4's use the same beadlock ring and wheel can be ordered in same color. Just cant add the slug weight in the V4 wheel.

Asian195 is right as far as the perferred set-up would be to run SLW's on all four and have the knuckle weights up front. This takes alot of the stress off the gear train of having alot of weight spinning around on the end of the axle. Plus if you have more than one set of tires mounted to different wheels you just change the wheel and don't have to worry about the weight.

Knuckle weights will run you around $80 a set, while the slugs for the DH's will set you back around $28 for one set. One set of the slugs is about all you will need if you run the DH's. Most people will load the wheels with 3 or 4 slugs. More than 4 and you start deflecting the tire much depending on the foams your running.

[slowride1]

if you do not have any wheels yet do youself a fav an look at the delux wheels . its cheeper an liter an then get the nuck weights . this seems to be what everyone is going to an it dose work

i have a set of dhs an slws an i have a set of the delux wheels woth nuck weights an i would rather run the delux wheels an weights for the truck just works better .

as far as the weight system blue monkey rc sells a great system as well an will work with about any nuck. out there or is your running vp nucks then you can one stop shop at delux

[Mysterious]

Originally Posted by HarleyRider

DH's at 1.035 width size are 4.30 oz each, while the SLW V4's at 1.35 width size are 2.0 oz each. Save a little over 2 oz per wheel. As far as continuity in looks the V4's use the same beadlock ring and wheel can be ordered in same color. Just cant add the slug weight in the V4 wheel.

Asian195 is right as far as the perferred set-up would be to run SLW's on all four and have the knuckle weights up front. This takes alot of the stress off the gear train of having alot of weight spinning around on the end of the axle. Plus if you have more than one set of tires mounted to different wheels you just change the wheel and don't have to worry about the weight.

Knuckle weights will run you around $80 a set, while the slugs for the DH's will set you back around $28 for one set. One set of the slugs is about all you will need if you run the DH's. Most people will load the wheels with 3 or 4 slugs. More than 4 and you start deflecting the tire much depending on the foams your running.

Continuity is big for me looks wise... I'm new to crawling though... I take it this extra 4oz in the rear and just the overall weight diff of DHii vs slw is very huge on performance?

I'm not really familar with knuckle weights... if I did 4 SLWs... what do I buy? Just that $80 start knuckle? Sould I buy a few extra add-ons or...? I guess my initial lean towards eighting was the slugs because you bought the pack then could just adjust within those... but I understand your talk about stresses on gearing.

Does the effect of knuckles work the same as slugs? I inda assumed the extra wheel weight roll helped with slugs by creating a puling momentum. Am I wrong?

If I bought all SLWs and knuckles, what spacers would I get? What sizes for front & rear?

[ax10tn]

i am running vp knuckle weight with slw's and running 475's on the front with 600's on the rear and this setup is working great for me. i know $80 is quite a bit for weight but like said above it does take alot of stress off the gears and axle shafts. i suggest DLux or vp wheels and vp or DLux knuckle weight..good luck sir

[HarleyRider]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

Continuity is big for me looks wise... I'm new to crawling though... I take it this extra 4oz in the rear and just the overall weight diff of DHii vs slw is very huge on performance? ?

Most people running the comp rigs Mysterious if adding weight prefer adding the weight over the front axle. You will see that some will use knuckle weights, some use slugs in the wheels, and even move battries out to the front axle. This is done to get weight as low as possible and the weight being over the front axle helps the dig set-up when climbing, allowing the rig to pull itself which you have more control over rather than pushing with the rear.

Also one of the points with the DH II's is the internal venting. Depending on the foams you run (Ex- CI's closed cell foams) the closed cell just about eliminates the venting aspect of the wheel unless you butcher up the inner foam. So you end up doing the venting through the tire.

Originally Posted by Mysterious

I'm not really familar with knuckle weights... if I did 4 SLWs... what do I buy? Just that $80 start knuckle? Sould I buy a few extra add-ons or...? I guess my initial lean towards eighting was the slugs because you bought the pack then could just adjust within those... but I understand your talk about stresses on gearing.?

Would start with wheels. Vanquish offers the SLW's in three sizes, .700, 1.0, and 1.35. I prefer the wider wheels. I run Sedonas and Boss Claws for tires and the wider wheels I think gives the tire a better foot print without rounding out the contact area on the tire.

Spacers for wheels and base knuckle weight. 475's for the front and 600's for the rears is common. Depending on the spacer your running depends on how much weight you can add. Here is the Knuckle weight guide off the Vanquish site:

WHEEL GUIDE
SLW Wheel with 225 hubs can add 2ea. 1/8 rings = 4.74oz. 114g
SLW Wheel with 350 hubs can add 3ea. 1/8 rings = 5.45oz. 154g
SLW Wheel with 475 hubs can add 4ea. 1/8 rings = 6.17 oz. 175g
SLW Wheel with 600 hubs can add 5ea. 1/8 rings = 6.87oz. 195g
SLW Wheel with 725 hubs can add 6ea. 1/8 rings = 7.59oz. 215g
SLW Wheel with 850 hubs can add 7ea. 1/8 rings

DH Procomp Wheel with 335 hubs can not add rings
DH Procomp Wheel with 460 hubs can add 1ea. 1/8 rings. = 4.04 oz. 114g
DH Procomp Wheel with 585 hubs can add 2ea. 1/8 rings. = 474oz. 134g
DH Procomp Wheel with 710 hubs can add 3ea. 1/8 rings. = 545oz. 154g
DH Procomp Wheel with 835 hubs can add 4ea. 1/8 rings. = 6.17oz. 175g

DH ProCOmp II with 335 Does not fit.
DH ProCOmp II with 460 Does not Fit.
DH ProCOmp II with 585 Does Fit. But no extra rings.
DH ProCOmp II with 710 hubs can add 1ea. 1/8 rings. = 4.04oz. 114g
DH ProCOmp II with 835 hubs can add 2ea. 1/8 rings. = 4.74oz. 134g

You can add weight rings to fine turn your set-up.

While your looking into it, if your putting on knuckle weights now would be the time to look at replacing the stock plastic chubs and knuckles. Know this add $$ but is well worth it in the long run.

Originally Posted by Mysterious

Does the effect of knuckles work the same as slugs? I inda assumed the extra wheel weight roll helped with slugs by creating a puling momentum. Am I wrong? ?

Adding weight where it be on the front axle or in the wheel does about the same. It gives you more weight down low which helps with balance, and being upfront it helps the front tires with grip when using dig to climb. Adding too much can take you in the other direction, as said before, so saying to add this much weight is the answer is not. It still takes going out and experimenting with your set-up factoring in what tires, foams, total weight of the rig, exc.. just takes time.

Keeping the weight out of the wheels is better for the trans gears and bearings by keeping the rotating mass down. Ex: In a comp situation when the rig is flipped over it is common to to apply forward then reverse throttle to attempt to flip the rig back over without taking a rollover penalty. With alot of weight in the wheels thats alot of stress on the geartrain. Doesn't take hearing but one pop out of the trans and the comp is over for the day.

And of course having the knuckle weights allows you to change wheels and tires if you opt for another set later on without having to move the weights.

Hope this helps you out. Know it's all $$$ when talking about a crawler and doing upgrades.

[Mysterious]

The price isn't really a stop point... my rig despite that I'll likely only ever recreationally crawl willl likely make some comp guys jealous.... VP'd up the wazoo, 4pk radio, switch chassis, ti links, etc... I'm admittedly going overboard... but in the past 4-5 years I've really gravitated to RC as a hobby & got hooked... I really liked the XR10 by far above other option (excluding maybe a Berg) so I set out to build a crazy extreme crawler...... more than I'll ever need but sometimes you gotta treat yourself.

Thanks for the explanation... I was going to get a Rowdy front axle battery holder which will put weight upfront........I guess knuckles make the most sense........ maybe I'll get that $80 starter + 1 extra ring set for options... my chub/knuckled will be VP'd. The comments on rim weight have set in that despite dh comps being nice looking they are really heavy compared to SLWs... I think I may just go all SLWs and the cost difference put on the knuckle weight system

You talked rim width... I bought Hot Bodies Rovers..... so if u like wide you're using the 1.35 width. My thoughts would agree a wider surface should allow more contact area. 1.00 is stock width though, right? (like the stock rims?)

For your axles, did you stick stock, do brass inserts, or pony up for VP axle halves?

[ax10tn]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

The price isn't really a stop point... my rig despite that I'll likely only ever recreationally crawl willl likely make some comp guys jealous.... VP'd up the wazoo, 4pk radio, switch chassis, ti links, etc... I'm admittedly going overboard... but in the past 4-5 years I've really gravitated to RC as a hobby & got hooked... I really liked the XR10 by far above other option (excluding maybe a Berg) so I set out to build a crazy extreme crawler...... more than I'll ever need but sometimes you gotta treat yourself.

Thanks for the explanation... I was going to get a Rowdy front axle battery holder which will put weight upfront........I guess knuckles make the most sense........ maybe I'll get that $80 starter + 1 extra ring set for options... my chub/knuckled will be VP'd. The comments on rim weight have set in that despite dh comps being nice looking they are really heavy compared to SLWs... I think I may just go all SLWs and the cost difference put on the knuckle weight system

You talked rim width... I bought Hot Bodies Rovers..... so if u like wide you're using the 1.35 width. My thoughts would agree a wider surface should allow more contact area. 1.00 is stock width though, right? (like the stock rims?)

For your axles, did you stick stock, do brass inserts, or pony up for VP axle halves?

i am running knuckle weight with a extra ring cut in half and mounted on the bottom of the knuckle weight to keep the weight down low. with 1.00 slw's. as far as the axle topper the vp's are in the future plans i have every other vp part they offer for the xr except the toppers and i dont not have brass inserts havent had any problems with stripped holes yet.

[HarleyRider]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

You talked rim width... I bought Hot Bodies Rovers..... so if u like wide you're using the 1.35 width. My thoughts would agree a wider surface should allow more contact area. 1.00 is stock width though, right? (like the stock rims?)

Have never ran the HB Rovers have heard that they are a good all around tire. My tire set-ups are HB Sedonas running A forward, Vp 1.35 SLW V2's, CI 5.5 closed cell inners (wide size) and soft outers front medium outers rear. Second set and Boss Claws staggered cut pins every other row on Vp 1.35 SWL V2's with CI 5.25 closed cell inners (wide size)and soft outers up front and medium outers rear.

Am not sure what axials stock width on their wheels were they didn't stick around too long with my kit, along with just about everything else except for the axle housings. IMAO I just wouldn't go smaller that the 1.0 size. I think it just rounds out the tread pattern too much with the .700 size. The more contact area the tire has with the rock the more chance to get traction.

Originally Posted by Mysterious

For your axles, did you stick stock, do brass inserts, or pony up for VP axle halves?

Right now my axle housing is stock. Have a set of the brass inserts here but haven't run into any stripping problems yet on the plastic so I haven't installed them. Have heard from people in our local group that run the Vp axle halves say their nice. Say they give more support to the final drive gear which can help avoid stripping gears. If you do go with them you need to also add the upper link mounts.

[Charlie-III]

I need to add to a thread regarding wheel weight vs. axle weight.

I will ABSOLUTELY agree that rotating mass is hard on the drivetrain (AKA, wheel weight), but it is ALSO useful to help flip you back over (yes, I have had waaaaayyyyyy too much practice here.......).

There is a balance between CG (where does the rig balance when no wheels are driven) as well as rotating weight. You NEED some rotating weight to help in some situations.

I run Sedonas which are on the heavy side, but, work with my typical rock.

I tend to make my own weights, but they're lead which is a bit denser (meaning they weigh more for the same volume) than the "nice looking brass" most vendors sell.

Not saying what they sell is bad, I just go my own route.

Then again, I "financially support" multiple rigs, thus a "bit here & there" money wise can add up quick.

[Mysterious]

Originally Posted by HarleyRider

475's for the front and 600's for the rears is common.

Would that provide the "stock" XR10 widths more or less? In that it's "most common" as you say?

[Krawler23]

The stock rims are 1.35" in by the way.

[HARDKNOCKZ]

Just my .02...a 1.35" wheel is pretty large. Not many comp guys run em anymore. Theres mixed opinions about a wider footprint vs psi. If you figure your rig weighs the average 6lbs...placing that weight on 4 1.35" wheels improves your overall footprint, putting more lugs & surface area to the rock. But it also displaces that weight over a greater area.

Take that same weight & put it down with a 1" or even a .7" & you have less actual tire to rock BUT your pounds...or ounces in many case per square inch is greater. I run 1" wheels & find em to be a great balance of footprint & psi.

As far as weight...running slugs WILL cause a little wear on your drive train but really not enough to concern yourself with. Again...my opinion. I chose to go SLWs with knuck weights to keep the rotating mass down for better overall control. Wheel speed & low end is just smoother & quicker.

That being said...I still run an oz in each wheel in the way of lead rope for a little easier rollover recovery & better digs. The further the weight is out on your axle...the harder it'll turn n burn.

For any of this to matter...you need to make sure you keep a decent bias. Guys like Jake Wright get away with sub 4lb rigs because they have a ton of foward bias. Your balance point should ideally be where the front links meet the skid or further forward.

I run a little wider rig than most because I like the control & stability it gives me. My advice is always to get a good selection of hubs & play with em...find what works for you & your rig.

J.D.

[HARDKNOCKZ]

Ok...so it's more like my .08 cents...

As far as .7" wheels go...a lot of the top guys run em. Depending on the tire...they work really well. I would stick to a 1" wheel with Rovs or Donas tho.

Brass inserts aren't necessarily for stripping only. They hold the case halves tighter together...allowing a little more stress on the gears. If you're comping the rig on any serious level...you'll DEFINITELY run into a situation that'll have you bound hard. Gear popping hard. Without inserts or VP halves, you can push the rig & likely pop some teeth or take a repo. With the brass inserts or VP halves...it's still possible to break teeth but less likely.

I started with inserts & went to toppers later & since doing so...have never broken teeth & have had the thing bound so hard...ya couldn't pull it out by hand. I HAVE snapped 2 shafts tho. Gives you an idea of the strength they add. Takes some force to spiral fracture an RC4WD gear shaft & a titanium transfer gear shaft before breaking teeth.

Mesh is everything & thats what the inserts or toppers do for you. They give you that tight gear mesh between the transfer & final gears & preventing the plastic halves from flexing away from each other under load. I don't remember what the inserts cost but it was cheap & came in a bag of 50. Total mod took MAYBE an extra ½ hour above & beyond my normal gear & axle maintenance.

If ya say the dough's not an issue...go VP toppers. Just be careful not to strip em out. I maintain my rig fairly regularly so there's a LOT of turning goin on in those screw holes. Without the proper care...you can strip or wallow em out & they'll be pretty paperweights. A dab of BLUE loctite & just snug. Dont wrench your screws down. The toppers are aluminum & use fine threaded screws. Again...not hard to strip if ya get nutty on em.

Definitely make the upper link mounts a purchase as well if you want more integrity throughout. They're not necessary if you do the insert mod but I'd still recommend em.

As far as shock oil...it's really gonna depend on the weight of your rig & which springs you choose. The oils main function is to control the rebound of the spring on it's return & dampen the shock travel.

When I ran Big Bores...my rig went from 6.25 lbs to 5.23 lbs. At the heavier side I ran Losi Mini-T red springs out back & silvers up front. My oil was 40 wt front & 45 back.

On the lighter side I changed out the rear springs to MRC RTR silvers & changed oil to 30 front & 35 rear.

Like the hubs...I recommend grabbing a selection. My personal collection ranges from 10 wt to 100 wt. I'd say for the average crawler...25 wt thru 50 wt would be a good jumpin off point. Some shops sell variety packs & I think Losi packages em.

Again...these are the things that I've tried & that've worked for me.

J.D.

[Mysterious]

Originally Posted by Krawler23

The stock rims are 1.35" in by the way.

Really? I would have assumed 1.00. Thanks for that info!