Barney Frank rips this girl a new one

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by marmech

The world revolves around the USA, right? Also, it is hilarious.

The American health care system, paid for by Americans for Americans.

As far as I'm concerned, it's no one else's business except Americans.

Btw, you realise you posted that comment on an AMERICAN website that you choose to frequent right? Not that the world revolves around us or anything.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

So, because a handful of countries do it, that means it works everywhere? I sure am glad that you have worked out all of the kinks for our health insurance system. Please write down your thoughts and send them to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Anything to get rid of insurance companies is a good thing.

"Here you pay us this much every month and we'll try as hard as we can to not give you the coverage (or as little as possible) that you are paying for."
Some don't see having access to healthcare as a right, I do. (I bet these same people would then be the first to cry about it being a right to drive if that privilege was taken away from them...)

Originally Posted by JeremyH

This shows your lack of understanding of the US health insurance system. It is not the responsibility of the employer....hence the term "benefit" It is the responsibility of the INDIVIDUAL.

Ok, that sounds better.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Then, while you might be a citizen of Germany on paper, you are a Canadian...

No, I am an immigrant living in canada. I have not taken my canadian citizenship yet, although I probably should.
You wouldn't call me American if I lived in america but had a different citizenship would you?

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

Anything to get rid of insurance companies is a good thing.

"Here you pay us this much every month and we'll try as hard as we can to not give you the coverage (or as little as possible) that you are paying for."
Some don't see having access to healthcare as a right, I do. (I bet these same people would then be the first to cry about it being a right to drive if that privilege was taken away from them...)

Ok, that sounds better.

What you don't get is that the American government is dumb,corrupt and inept. The last thing you do is give it more control. Socialized medicine may work where you come from BUT IT DOES NOT WORK HERE IN AMERICA.

I don't care if it's a "right" they(the government) should not be anywhere near the healthcare system because the government will MAKE THINGS WORSE THAN IT ALREADY IS.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by Code454

Sounds like MR Slave is saying our healthcare system is good.....WRONG, i health care sucks balls.

main reason is the waiting list, people are going to the states and paying 10's of thousands of dollars just to have something done because there is a two year wait list..


ive fought with our healthcare system and i can tell you it is no better

No where have I said that.
our healthcare system is far from ideal (I would gladly pay more taxes to fix it) I believe it to be a simpler system than one with insurance companies.

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

No where have I said that.
our healthcare system is far from ideal (I would gladly pay more taxes to fix it) I believe it to be a simpler system than one with insurance companies.

Our? I thought you weren't a Canadian?
I'm confused now...

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

Our? I thought you weren't a Canadian?
I'm confused now...

[marmech]

Originally Posted by dezfan

The American health care system, paid for by Americans for Americans.

As far as I'm concerned, it's no one else's business except Americans.

Btw, you realise you posted that comment on an AMERICAN website that you choose to frequent right? Not that the world revolves around us or anything.

I was being honest, the USA is insanely huge in how the entire modern world works, to say otherwise is to be ignorant.

Keep it in America, by Americans for Americans... DO NOT model it after any other country, that way if it fails you can say I told you so and blame Liberal Nazi Immigrant Media Scorpion Crabs.

This is an American site? I thought it was Peruvian.

[jfraymond]

For me personally I feel Our Medical system is the best on the planet!! the insurance side of it and removing all the current government involvement that currently raises the cost of health care is what is needed to be fixed. Until such time another country can develope a higher level of care, socializing the system will not only hurt our own citizens but a large portion of the global community that relies on our system when they are really sick.

The thing everyone seems to be missing is that staying alive and healthy is the most important thing.....Doesnt matter how much money you save by passing on the cost and responsibility for your healthcare to somebody else if you cant get the highest quality of care you need.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Several points, no particular order...I'll keep them as short as possible.

1. Charitable contributions from the wealthy. Yes, they contribute alot. However, remove the tax deductable status from those contributions and I think you'd see a sharp decline.

2. The USA ranks poorly worldwide for overall healthcare. Yes, we have some kick-ass facilities, but they are sporadic and not within everyones reach. We do, however, rank very high for plastic surgery. Yay fake titties!

3. It is and always has been my impression that we pay taxes so that our government can better serve us. I would put healthcare on the short list here.

4. The problem isn't whether the plan is socialist or not, its how our inept and corrupt government would handle it. I'm sure somebody is going to get a new vacation home out of the deal...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

3. It is and always has been my impression that we pay taxes so that our government can better serve us. I would put healthcare on the short list here.

Healthcare? Healthcare is available to you and everyone else in this country who wants it. It only differs in how you wish to pay for that care. Some of us choose to have insurance for that....some choose to pay for the care out of their own pocket. The decision is yours to make...

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Healthcare? Healthcare is available to you and everyone else in this country who wants it. It only differs in how you wish to pay for that care. Some of us choose to have insurance for that....some choose to pay for the care out of their own pocket. The decision is yours to make...

I would prefer to pay for it with the tax dollars I'm already paying instead of, say, firing a rocket at the moon just to see what happens, or bailing out financial institutions because of thier own greed or auto manufacturers because they can't make a competitive product. Need I mention the bullshyte war we're in the middle of thats costing us untold gajillions of dollars?

[Del Montess]

I haven't read all of the "arguments" in this thread, just wanted to put my opinion out there to be shredded as well.

The US ranks 36th in the world for health care. 36th!! we're just above Slovenia.. ummm.. for one of the "world powers" and a country that has its head up its ass and thinks it's the greatest, that is really pathetic.

and everyone keeps saying that no one can be denied emergency treatment. While that is true, do you know how much cheaper it would be if these people got regular medical treatment that could prevent or decrease the severity of a lot of the emergencies that they are seen for (late stages of cancer, chronic diseases, etc)? A couple dr. visits a year, and a few screening tests are FAR cheaper than the emergency care they receive due to lack of preventative care. this would be way more cost beneficial in the long run.

I have refrained from making any judgements on the healthcare reforms because I haven't done the research yet either, the above are just facts.

this is getting to be a stupid crapstorm of media hype, with people talking out of their asses because "what's on the news must be true!"
just like the ridiculous swine flu bullshit. I hate the fawking media (all of it, left wing, right wing, it is all ridiculous)

[BJoe]

Well said!

[jfraymond]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Several points, no particular order...I'll keep them as short as possible.

1. Charitable contributions from the wealthy. Yes, they contribute alot. However, remove the tax deductable status from those contributions and I think you'd see a sharp decline.

Not as much as you would think. Tax deductible only means you save the % that you would otherwise give to the government...kinda like a bonus to your gift. If donations were for financial reasons none would be given in the first place. Though I will admit it does give me a certain satisfaction to know I put as large chunk of money as I am legally allowed to into the hands of of the truly needy rather than the governments greedy pockets.

2. The USA ranks poorly worldwide for overall healthcare. Yes, we have some kick-ass facilities, but they are sporadic and not within everyones reach. We do, however, rank very high for plastic surgery. Yay fake titties!

Can't argue about the quality of our fake titties, But all those worldwide rankings lists are based primarily on factors other than how good the actual medical treatment you recieve is.

3. It is and always has been my impression that we pay taxes so that our government can better serve us. I would put healthcare on the short list here.

You would think so...you dont pay much in taxes do you? Cause if you did you would be uber pissed at the money that goes to special interests, waste, and entitlements. Unfortunately the lions share of Taxes are used to serve one segment of the population that doesnt contribute at the sole expense of the half that does. In the case of healthcare WE (and by we i mean only half the american population) is being asked to pay for a whole huge universal program that historically has been shown to be a failure everywhere it has been tried and that 86% of the population doesn't want or need AND is already provided free of charge to the remaining 14% via medicare and medicaid.

4. The problem isn't whether the plan is socialist or not, its how our inept and corrupt government would handle it. I'm sure somebody is going to get a new vacation home out of the deal...

Cant argue with this point either....though it is the perfect example of why we DONT need the government in charge of our health and well-being.

....

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by jfraymond

Not as much as you would think. Tax deductible only means you save the % that you would otherwise give to the government...kinda like a bonus to your gift. If donations were for financial reasons none would be given in the first place. Though I will admit it does give me a certain satisfaction to know I put as large chunk of money as I am legally allowed to into the hands of of the truly needy rather than the governments greedy pockets.

Can't argue about the quality of our fake titties, But all those worldwide rankings lists are based primarily on factors other than how good the actual medical treatment you recieve is.


You would think so...you dont pay much in taxes do you? Cause if you did you would be uber pissed at the money that goes to special interests, waste, and entitlements. Unfortunately the lions share of Taxes are used to serve one segment of the population that doesnt contribute at the sole expense of the half that does.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for donating...I've just heard "Oh! We can write that off as a donation!" a few too many times...

We do have great treatment, but too much of it is focused on fixing something that has progressed to a dangerous stage. We need better preventative measures...and find some way to make people listen.

Believe me, I ain't happy about where my tax dollars are going. Somebody needs to hardball these welfare baby machines and system suckers. I get calls all the time from people living on SS, disability, or DV benifits and needing help. When they ask if they can make payments to me for my services, and I look around and see thier new vehicles and flat screen tv's, they get a big fat "no".

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I would prefer to pay for it with the tax dollars I'm already paying instead of, say, firing a rocket at the moon just to see what happens, or bailing out financial institutions because of thier own greed or auto manufacturers because they can't make a competitive product. Need I mention the bullshyte war we're in the middle of thats costing us untold gajillions of dollars?

Maybe it was cheaper for the government to give the companies the bailouts than it would have been to not get involved, let them fail and have to deal with that shitstorm once they did.. (kinda like voting. stepping around a puddle of puke only to step into a giant turd.)
I think it was mostly risk assessment that necessitated the bailouts.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

Maybe it was cheaper for the government to give the companies the bailouts than it would have been to not get involved, let them fail and have to deal with that shitstorm once they did.. (kinda like voting. stepping around a puddle of puke only to step into a giant turd.)
I think it was mostly risk assessment that necessitated the bailouts.

I'm sure it was, but I still say that it would have been better to hand every tax paying citizen a big fat check to buy cars, make house payments, get health insurance, and do what we do best; consume. But who in thier right mind would give the power to the people?

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm sure it was, but I still say that it would have been better to hand every tax paying citizen a big fat check to buy cars, make house payments, get health insurance, and do what we do best; consume. But who in thier right mind would give the power to the people?

I'm not sure that what you suggest would have been cheaper though.. (?)

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

Maybe it was cheaper for the government to give the companies the bailouts than it would have been to not get involved, let them fail and have to deal with that shitstorm once they did.. (kinda like voting. stepping around a puddle of puke only to step into a giant turd.)
I think it was mostly risk assessment that necessitated the bailouts.

That maybe one possibility.
Either the companies go belly up and get bought out by foreign companies or the government gets them. The government probably jumped at the chance to get a controlling position in the free market.

Or these billion dollar companies have friends in washington and saw an opportunity for free cash for their bonuses.

Both sound plausible to me.

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

I'm not sure that what you suggest would have been cheaper though.. (?)

When has the government ever been conscious of spending?