i need alternative heat in my garage. need advise.

[warren]

right now I'm using a ready heater to heat my garage which does the job just fine, but the cost of kerosene is starting to add up and the heater is starting to make fumes in the garage. so I have been trying to read up online how to heat with wood in my garage.

my dad has a double 55 gallon drum wood burner in his garage and it works awesome. the problem with this is I don't really have the room to dedicate to an indoor and also I can't afford to have my insurance drop my garage or my policy all together. so my option is to move the burner outside and pipe the heat in through the wall. so I have been trying to wrap my mind around the best and cheapest option. I know there's companies that make outdoor heating units for buildings but they are very expensive. I can't afford that option.

so I'm thinking of building a burner out of a recycled propane tank and putting an air duct in the top of it to pull hot air from the fire box into the garage. the duct would be recessed into the fire box and would be blocked off from smoke and fire but would have vent areas open above the fire box to pull in outside fresh air. which would be heated and then pumped into the garage via a fan in the duct work.

here's some VERY crude paint drawings of what I'm looking at building.






my other option is a boiler setup. I'm more then confident and capable of build a pressure vessel/system to hold up to this task. being that the vessels we build at work test at 350-400 PSI. I would build a water boiler/tank in the fire box and the steam would be pushed through some piping into the garage where I would build a heater coil that would have a fan pushing across it to blow the hot air into the garage. the coil would condense the steam back into water which would run back into the tank to get boiled again. sorry I don't have a sweet paint drawing for this option but I hope I described it well enough.

the hot air duct system would be easier but I'm not above doing the boiler setup if anyone thinks it would be better. also let me know if anyone has any other ideas or questions.

thank you.

[puddin]

Look up something called a mini split. I installed and serviced HVAC. You might find a knock off system to suite your needs without breaking the bank.

[Mike Flea]

Your second idea for the boiler setup, is what I was thinking. A guy I knew in Jacumba, Cal made a similar heating system for his garage, only the heating unit was in the garage, but it easily could have been outside. He used a 110 gal oil drum, they have a kind of circular "I" beam around them. He made a radiator type of piping with 3/4" pipe and fittings snaked and mounted high in the firebox, with pipes entering and exiting through the bulkheads, ( one in and one out) , that connected to pipes that ran through the rest of the garage, with a fan to blow across the heated pipes to circulate the heat. I don't remember where he mounted the pressure relief, but I know it was away from the firebox near the ceiling on the output piping. He had a 3-bay garage, and it would keep it warm. To keep it really warm, he would burn old rubber tires, once they get burning, it would put out some really good heat to the point where the pipes would start creaking and banging.

[littletoyboy]

I have installed several mini split systems in the past. Most were Mitsubishi brand and a few Samsung's. They are all pretty much the same simple design, and work well. The thing I liked about them was ease of install, and they dont require a lot of amps to operate.

[puddin]

I would go with a Mitsubishi over any mini split but they aren't the cheapest. You get what you pay for though.

[yotapower07]

Here is my take. I'm not sure what a mini split is so I won't comment on that. Hows the availability of wood to burn in your area? What's the cost of return going to be? If feasible then I like the boiler idea. My stepdad had radiant floor heating installed before the concrete was poured for his shop. So my thought is using the heated water to heat up something larger that won't flucuate temps rapidly. Also what about a pellet stove?

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by littletoyboy

I have installed several mini split systems in the past. Most were Mitsubishi brand and a few Samsung's. They are all pretty much the same simple design, and work well. The thing I liked about them was ease of install, and they dont require a lot of amps to operate.

Originally Posted by puddin

I would go with a Mitsubishi over any mini split but they aren't the cheapest. You get what you pay for though.

A mini split would be a heat pump, and I am not sure they work well in freezing weather. Otherwise it would have heat strips which would be just as expensive to run as a space heater.

Call me silly, but why not a conventional indoor fireplace or wood stove?

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by The Violator

but why not a conventional indoor fireplace or wood stove?

[warren]

Originally Posted by wings_of_fire

This is the reason my insurance won't allow it. And why conventional heating won't work. Something about fire inside the building they don't like the thought.

I could buy a gas furnace that would use natural gas, but again that would be a costly install. I have oak pallets available to me by the truck load. So fire wood is problem.

I looked at some many split systems and the cheapest I could find was $600 for the system then I would need to get it installed.

Thanks for all the input everyone. Anyone else have any thoughts on either my ideas or anything else.

[wings_of_fire]

I will suggest reading a book on Heat and Mass Transfer. That will help a lot.

I like your second idea. That same idea is used in making milk concentrate since its efficient on a medium scale.

Some simple points I would like to post
1] The heater coil in your garage should be at the floor level of the house since warm air is lighter and rises upwards.
2] You will have to insulate the piping and they should be made of Stainless steel 304 or they should be protective coated from inside if made from other ferrous material.
3] You will have to use a variable speed motor for the blower so that its easy to control the air flow leading to temperature control and it becomes an efficient system overall.
4] You will have to insulate the boiler if you want an efficient system which will save you Dollar in the long run.
5] Or you can simply purchase a used one and modify it according to your needs.

My views are theoretical. You can take a far better decision based on your experience and materials available to you.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by wings_of_fire

Unless he is building a firebox 20 feet away from the house, a fire directly on the outside vs inside does not seem so much different to me. Of course right now on December 12th we are near the coldest part of our year, its 68 (20c for those cavemen who have not changed to the proper temp scale) outside at 8 am. So heating up the house is not so much of an issue.



Back to the OP problem.

With safety issues, it might be wise to just bite the bullet and buy the wood burning system that you want commercially. I would think if you burn your house down with a home made system they would not pay for repairs anyway. In the long term with free wood, the system would pay for itself , and satisfy your insurance company if it has a UL rating.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by The Violator

Unless he is building a firebox 20 feet away from the house, a fire directly on the outside vs inside does not seem so much different to me.

You have a point considering majority of house building material is wood there.

Originally Posted by The Violator

Of course right now on December 12th we are near the coldest part of our year, its 68 (20c for those cavemen who have not changed to the proper temp scale) outside at 8 am. So heating up the house is not so much of an issue.

I like your earlier avatar. It represented you perfectly.

In the United States, the Fahrenheit system continues to be the accepted standard for non-scientific use.

I guess that makes all people related to scientific study cave men including me

[yotapower07]

So if it is to be an outside fire box then you can do both systems you describe at the beginning. Insulate the box to trap warm air and send that inside to get quick heat and use the radiant heat also. Heck maybe it would even be feasible to plumb it into the hot water system in your home reducing that cost as well. Throw in a circ pump and instant hot water anywhere. Some shut off valves for when it isn't needed. Anyways good luck to you on your adventures.

[warren]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I guess I should say again this is just for my garage that I'm in for about 6 hours at a time, on the weekends. So I'm a little concerned that the water will freeze since the fire won't be lit all the time.

I definitely planned to insolate the whole system either way. I also started looking at homemade forced air systems with a outdoor wood burner to provide the heat. Then just recirculate the air around the fire box. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Mike Flea]

Originally Posted by warren

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I guess I should say again this is just for my garage that I'm in for about 6 hours at a time, on the weekends. So I'm a little concerned that the water will freeze since the fire won't be lit all the time.

I definitely planned to insolate the whole system either way. I also started looking at homemade forced air systems with a outdoor wood burner to provide the heat. Then just recirculate the air around the fire box. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

In the boiler type system I described, there's about a gallon of water in the system, with about a quarter of that as antifreeze. once the water/glycol mix, it won't freeze. And even though you say you'll only be in there 6 hrs/day, the water left in the building will stay warm for another 4-6 hrs, the water will continue to circulate with the heat, even as the heat source dies. If you have a good base for the unit to sit on, and 3ft minimum spacing around the heat unit, you can put the burner inside.

[warren]

Originally Posted by Mike Flea

In the boiler type system I described, there's about a gallon of water in the system, with about a quarter of that as antifreeze. once the water/glycol mix, it won't freeze. And even though you say you'll only be in there 6 hrs/day, the water left in the building will stay warm for another 4-6 hrs, the water will continue to circulate with the heat, even as the heat source dies. If you have a good base for the unit to sit on, and 3ft minimum spacing around the heat unit, you can put the burner inside.

For some reason I didn't even think about putting an antifreeze in the water system. With this hot water system would I need a pump or are you talking about the water boiling into steam and the steam pressure pushing through the plumbing?

[mjderstine]

I could advise you but would you rather have advice?

Would that suit your needs for your suite?

[Tossedman]

Got natural gas there? Ever think of something like this? Trane heater furnace LB LP 100000 btu hanging type space heater | Ridgeway | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 36703126
Get it checked out and installed by a gas fitter first.

[Ohioskills]

just put a bunch of talking WOMEN in there for about 15mins that should rise the TEMPS quick

[Sheepdawg23wm]

Seems like a lot of work for pretty much all the options previously mentioned. Being a garage, and I'm sure you have 220v power supply, I'd just put in some simple electic baseboards on a thermostat. Turn em on Friday after work and back off Sunday evening. Easy as can be to install and no chance your insurance should say no far as I'm concerned. You'd just want to double check your local state and municipalities codes on baseboard heat in a garage.