no thread on the shooting in VA this morning?

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

I always wonder if people in other areas had as much gun play as we do... if they'd still be gun fans.

In the past couple day's we've had a couple teens shot (1 dead) and a cop killed... amongst others.
In August, we've had 46 people shot and killed (out of 54 total homicides) and and additional 250 shot and wounded... that's in 31 days (almost 10 people shot per day)!

I used to like guns (grew up with guns/hunting/military)... as I like all mechanical objects, like most here... but after 20 years of seeing what they can truly do... not so much.

2015 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!

Living in NorCal, having Oakland, Stockton, Richmond, just to name a few, I definitely feel you. Fortunately I don't live around those cities, but I certainly get tired of hearing about all the senselessness.

But, while your views on guns I can see, I think they're a bit unjustified. Or...I guess I should say don't let people what you enjoy.

[RANOVRU]

Johnny apparently lives in a bad area. In the national stats of people that die annually, homicide falls in to the 'accidental' catagory, which is about midway down the list. I don't know mow many 'accidental' deaths are homicides committed with a firearm but I'm sure it's not all of them. Johnny's liberal mindset is understandable given where he lives, but it doesn't speak for the overall picture.

If people care about other people so much they should be banning the fast food industry, which can be related to heart disease, which is the #1 killer of people in the US annually. If people actually informed themselves of what actually goes on they'd see that deaths involving guns is a relatively low percentage of what kills folks each year.


"I used to like a knife and fork but once I saw what they could do to a person, not so much."


Weak....

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

In August, we've had 46 people shot and killed (out of 54 total homicides) and and additional 250 shot and wounded... that's in 31 days (almost 10 people shot per day)!

Criminals ( I would like to see the stat on how many of those 46 people have violent criminal records) in Chicago killing each other at a rate of 10 a day does not concern me.

Are you as concerned about the 22 combat veterans a day committing suicide?

Its not a issue of what tool these people are using.

The issue to me is more why so many people are killing each other and themselves a day.

As a parent I don't care what Timmy hit Sally in the head with, I am far more concerned with why Timmy hit Sally in the head.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

But, my main point was how to recognize mental health? I mean...what are the determining factors to make it so a person can't buy a gun? This guy was clearly off his rocker when he went to purchase the gun. Would all those claims he made against co workers that were found false be red flags? I would think so, obviously not though.

I don't think we've evolved to that point yet, of being able to acutely determine the depth of mental illness out there. I do think that the everyday pills that a good portion of society takes everyday is contributing. I think where we are now, trying to weed out possible psycho's would end up like how autism used to be.

I personally don't think that the majority of 'crazy people' out there have mental illness, they're just 'mental'. In most cases there are motives and reasons why nut jobs do what they do.

If they kill other people, kill 'em back.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

As a parent I don't care what Timmy hit Sally in the head with, I am far more concerned with why Timmy hit Sally in the head.

I don't care about either. I'm more concerned with Timmy understanding that you don't do that shit.

He gets hit in the head twice as a repercussion.

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I don't think we've evolved to that point yet, of being able to acutely determine the depth of mental illness out there. I do think that the everyday pills that a good portion of society takes everyday is contributing. I think where we are now, trying weed out possible psycho's would end up like how autism used to be.

I personally don't think that the majority of 'crazy people' out there have mental illness, they're just 'mental'. In most cases there are motives and reasons why nut jobs do what they do.

If they kill other people, kill 'em back.

Yeah, giving people meds & hoping it fixes the problem is crazy. You make a good point too about just being mental, as opposed to attaching illness to it. This guy specifically, said himself he snapped due to the Charleston shooting. Him thinking the appropriate action is to kill innocents defnitely puts him in the nutjob category.

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by b00st3d-vr6

johnny, aren't you around the chicago area?

Yes, north side of Chicago in Rogers Park.
We have a couple shootings a week it seems.

I'm looking into buying a few blocks north of the Chicago border though... in Evanston. Much less shootings... and then sell that in a few years and move to the woods somewhere.

For while, I lived further south on the edge of Humboldt Park... it was pretty bad down there but closer to work.
My building was sprayed with automatic gunfire once, my truck was shot in in the tailgate once while I was driving (musta cut someone off or a stray), my gf's car window was shot out by a group of teens while she was standing next to it, I witnessed a drive-by across the street while walking my dogs... literally shooting at someone right across the street.

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

Living in NorCal, having Oakland, Stockton, Richmond, just to name a few, I definitely feel you. Fortunately I don't live around those cities, but I certainly get tired of hearing about all the senselessness.

But, while your views on guns I can see, I think they're a bit unjustified. Or...I guess I should say don't let people what you enjoy.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Johnny apparently lives in a bad area. In the national stats of people that die annually, homicide falls in to the 'accidental' catagory, which is about midway down the list. I don't know mow many 'accidental' deaths are homicides committed with a firearm but I'm sure it's not all of them. Johnny's liberal mindset is understandable given where he lives, but it doesn't speak for the overall picture.

So I ask the question

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

I always wonder if people in other areas had as much gun play as we do... if they'd still be gun fans.

and the only answers I receive are that my real life actual experiences don't matter and I get called a liberal.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

If people care about other people so much they should be banning the fast food industry, which can be related to heart disease, which is the #1 killer of people in the US annually. If people actually informed themselves of what actually goes on they'd see that deaths involving guns is a relatively low percentage of what kills folks each year.


"I used to like a knife and fork but once I saw what they could do to a person, not so much."


Weak....

Actions are being taken against the fast food industry.
They are now required to have calorie count of all their food offerings posted in clear sight.
Companies are becoming more responsible with ingredients and healthier offerings.
They are becoming more responsible with marketing towards children.
And, in several countries (even here) they are loosing ground and closing up shops.
All progress in a very difficult and long fight against big money by people who care about other people.

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

Criminals ( I would like to see the stat on how many of those 46 people have violent criminal records) in Chicago killing each other at a rate of 10 a day does not concern me.

You are a sad individual.

Criminals killing each other affects everyone around them.
When a bullet misses it's intended target it can (and often does) hit an unintended target such as an innocent bystander... we lose a few children a year for "being in the wrong place at the wrong time".

I was very affected by a shooting last year... a couple moved to Chicago so the woman could work at the company I work for, a dream come true for her.

After 3 months in Chicago, while waiting at crowded bus stop in my neighborhood, her husband was looking for a job... a stray bullet intended for some street rapper hit him and killed him on the spot.

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

Are you as concerned about the 22 combat veterans a day committing suicide?

As a matter of fact, yes.
I donate time and money to adult mental illness and homeless institutions and causes... as well as other causes.

What are you doing?

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

I always wonder if people in other areas had as much gun play as we do... if they'd still be gun fans.

In the past couple day's we've had a couple teens shot (1 dead) and a cop killed... amongst others.
In August, we've had 46 people shot and killed (out of 54 total homicides) and and additional 250 shot and wounded... that's in 31 days (almost 10 people shot per day)!

I used to like guns (grew up with guns/hunting/military)... as I like all mechanical objects, like most here... but after 20 years of seeing what they can truly do... not so much.

2015 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!

You live in an area that has some of the most restrictive gun laws out there. So tell me how well are they working.


I bet if the #blacklivesmatter people would quit shooting each other, then the gun injuries and deaths would drop to nearly nothing.


Here in Arizona if you are allowed to own a gun, you can carry concealed. And we do not have 40 people a weekend killed. Maybe we are on to something.

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by The Violator

You live in an area that has some of the most restrictive gun laws out there. So tell me how well are they working.

I think pretty well... considering it's gang bangers shooting/getting shot... not your average law abiding citizen.
It's the people with guns getting shot... and doing the shooting coincidentally.
We don't have the same type's of shootings that other states with CC have such as husbands shooting wives out of anger, road rage shootings, kids accidentally shooting themselves/friends/parents, accidental discharges, neighborly disputes... none of that.

Originally Posted by The Violator

I bet if the #blacklivesmatter people would quit shooting each other, then the gun injuries and deaths would drop to nearly nothing.

I'm going to assume that's your new clever to you nomenclature for poor inner city black kids in gangs that you have replaced "Obama's son" with?

Well then, you are right... if gang bangers stopped shooting each other our injuries and deaths would drop to nearly nothing... guess the gun restrictions are working.

Originally Posted by The Violator

Here in Arizona if you are allowed to own a gun, you can carry concealed. And we do not have 40 people a weekend killed. Maybe we are on to something.

yeah, that no one wants to live there... considering the population of Chicagoland is almost 10 million and the population of the entire state of AZ is less than 7 million.
My guess is CC laws aren't the reason.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Law abiding gun owners are not the problem. Murder is illegal yet apparently around that big shithole that is Chicago it happens about 10 times a day. You need to make more gun and anti murder laws, that'll fix the issue for sure.


My area doesn't have any real murder problem. We barely have any crime issue at all and the only ones committing the vast majority of the crime are transplants from the big cities or farm workers kids. There is a direct connection between big cities and many of the problems in the world but most don't want to admit it.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Law abiding gun owners are not the problem. Murder is illegal yet apparently around that big shithole that is Chicago it happens about 10 times a day. You need to make more gun and anti murder laws, that'll fix the issue for sure.


My area doesn't have any real murder problem. We barely have any crime issue at all and the only ones committing the vast majority of the crime are transplants from the big cities or farm workers kids. There is a direct connection between big cities and many of the problems in the world but most don't want to admit it.

Yup. There was plenty of gun violence when I lived in Phoenix. Now I'm in bfe Arkansas and there is next to none. Very different worlds, very different mindsets. It took me about a year or so to chill out and live a more relaxed life. People are still murdered here, but not very often and its usually related to drugs.

[johnnyh66]

No argument there... cities are full of poverty & inequality for many residents as well as scarce on opportunities for the same demographic.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

No argument there... cities are full of poverty & inequality for many residents as well as scarce on opportunities for the same demographic.

The whole world is full of poverty, inequality and scarce opportunities but the violence issue is mainly in big cities. Inner city idiots need to look for a new excuse as to why they can't or stop being whining pussies and find a way that they can make their lives better. If these idiots spent 1/4 of the time and effort making their world better as they do protesting or gaming the system they'd have much less to bitch about.

[RANOVRU]

Well it seems's that this thread is finally coming around to the fact the people who commit crimes with guns are the problem, not the guns.

Of course now we're going to debate about defending the 'poor souls' who choose to do this and the reasons why.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

cities are full of poverty & inequality for many residents as well as scarce on opportunities for the same demographic.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Well it seems's that this thread is finally coming around to the fact the people who commit crimes with guns are the problem, not the guns.

Of course now we're going to debate about defending the 'poor souls' who choose to do this and the reasons why.

It's always been the people at the core. People with rocks, people with sticks, people with rocks tied to sticks, people with pointy sticks made of metal, and now people with firearms.

Firearms give people a certain sense of bravado that they wouldn't get with anything else, and if you're a person with bad intent, you're more inclined to do bad things when you're weaponized. And, since firearms can strike at a good distance, you probably won't be very concerned about having to go toe-to-toe with anyone, and makes it that much easier to consider (when was the last time you heard of a drive-by stabbing, or someones house riddled with knife marks).

So yes, guns are still part of the problem because they increase motivation.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It's always been the people at the core. People with rocks, people with sticks, people with rocks tied to sticks, people with pointy sticks made of metal, and now people with firearms.

Firearms give people a certain sense of bravado that they wouldn't get with anything else, and if you're a person with bad intent, you're more inclined to do bad things when you're weaponized. And, since firearms can strike at a good distance, you probably won't be very concerned about having to go toe-to-toe with anyone, and makes it that much easier to consider (when was the last time you heard of a drive-by stabbing, or someones house riddled with knife marks).

So yes, guns are still part of the problem because they increase motivation.

Increase motivation? You're really full of yourself today.

Bravado??? Is that what the inner city gangsters are calling it now?

You've got to have the nerve to do it period. Beyond that it doesn't matter what tool you choose or how easy it makes it. Some folks like a challenge.


A plane makes it a lot easier to kill a bunch of people in a building in a scenario where one could also use a gun, just wouldn't kill as many people. Should we ban planes?

[Duuuuuuuude]

No, because we don't let just anyone fly a plane, and you actually have to know how to use one properly to even get it moving. Besides, suicidal pilots are ready to die, sackless bitches that don't want to take responsibility for their actions shoot people from a moving car or from across the street. If they knew there was a good chance that they might get their ass beat or even killed for their actions would cause them to think a little harder about what they were doing.

Have you ever lived in or near the shitty part of a big city? Or even in a big city?

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

sackless bitches that don't want to take responsibility for their actions shoot people from a moving car or from across the street

The root of the problem is these people have no respect for human life. And no want to better themselves.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by The Violator

The root of the problem is these people have no respect for human life. And no want to better themselves.

I agree with the first sentence. The problem with the second is that they do want better, they just go about it in an uncivil way. They weren't taught hard work or honor or ethics or empathy, they were taught to do whatever they could to whatever stands in their way, and if someone disrespects you, you try and put them down permanently. My brother inlaws brother is a reformed gang banger. He had some really fawked up stories.