Ideas for Comp Series

[paintballer9876]

I agree with exw, my main concern on any of the possible changes is judging. I can judge for a short time but judging all day does not work for me. At the red rock winter series comp i judged a course was fine for most of the day but trying to concentrate when your tiered is difficult. It should still volunteer, if your forced into something you are less likely to take it seriously and less likely to care. If its going to be judges that run all day then they should run the courses first, this way the only thing they have to worry about is judging.

[Posterchild]

Originally Posted by rmdesignworks

Ive been a part of this discussion around town and I personally think that the seperation needs to be Novice ,Sportsman and Pro.

Novice,,,any new driver with any rig in 2.2 spec

Sportsman,,,any driver with a digless rig or any Novice driver who has won 3 consecutive 3 course events or placed in the top 3 drivers in 3 consecutive events,,,which ever works best.

I disagree respectfully with the rig restrictions in the Sportsman class listed here. I wouldn't consider myself a novice. I've been crawling for a few years. (No comps though yet). And I have built my rig with a dig setup. By no means am I the level of the "Pros", but am well above Novice.

My plan is to get into a few comps soon.
Just my, not-so-noob, .02 cents

[Fattymojo]

Originally Posted by skid plate

There has been some discussion for awhile now about the upcoming season, and future seasons.

I am going to post this here and ask for feedback either on this thread or through pm's.

No bashing allowed. It's for discussion. If you don't like, please offer a solution or reason.

Thanks and let's get started.

JC


Ideas for Comp Crawling

The following ideas are being discussed and we encourage your input to make this series and all series better.

A couple of definitions will help before reading on into the topic’s.

A1 Pro Class – Will be any driver who pays into the series, where competition will be the foremost ideal on their mind while driving.
A2 Amateur Class – Will be any driver with any level of crawler, (yes, any level of crawler meeting spec), that wants to come and crawl on set courses.


Now on to more items that have been discussed and are here for your input and reply.
Please be as specific, list item(s), with your reply or continued discussion.

1> Everyone entered in the series will take a rotation in the judging pool.
1a The rotation will be based on the list of drivers in the series for the season. These drivers will take judging responsibilities for the whole series. This takes all pressure off of amateurs as far as judging. Although everyone will be invited to keep score, keep time, etc. in conjunction with the assigned judges.i like this
1b Judges will set up courses and assist other judges with same while check-in and tech are in progress. This means an earlier arrival to the comp site is part of that responsibility for those rotating. (those that travel a great distance will be rotated as necessary to prevent traveling pressure for those day(s), i.e. changing your day(s) with another closer to your home) i like this

2>Amateur class has been discussed that it should possibly include all crawler types, not just limited to 2 channel, no dig crawlers. Amateurs are amateurs, we just need to let them get better. Promoting this sport is what we are about. Drivers need to seek their own comfort level and should want to achieve the highest level they are comfortable at. I like this because you should be able to drive whatever you want if your new, without the pressure of pro class.
2aAmateurs will run the first series of gates on the courses as pro’s, but can use the remaining gates of the pro course as bonus gates. (maybe a bonus-land setup)
2b This is only suggested, the amateur courses could also deviate through different gates along the same layout.

3>It is encouraged to keep time running, and the series as professional as possible, that there be a set check-in/tech time. If we are going to be more professional about the series, this needs to happen. (leave earlier if you are consistently late and can’t get there on time). (Judges will be adjusted as necessary for travel length to keep them from being pressured to arrive early and help with set-up.)Alot of times i get off work right when a comp is starting. This would cut down on my comp activity quite a bit.
3a Keep the courses 4 to 5 minutes max in length. Actually shorter is better. Learning to drive under these conditions proves to be more of the status of a National Event stature. Courses for amateurs will be a minimum amount of gates and/or design to promote good thinking habits without pressure to hurry, hurry, hurry. Pro Drivers are encouraged to remember, you are competitors, competitors deal with pressure and as such will be working on harder course lengths or designs within the same time frame.

4>Series payout should include, what the pro class will be driving for.
4a There should be trophy’s and/or gift cards/cash awards for World’s Event.
This has been brought up as past series awards have been late or not received. (not by this series alone)
4b There should also be recognition for the top five amateurs and an invite to join pro status if they wish. (again, it is our wish to promote this sport and it’s ideals)

5>It is agreed that all who enter into the (Series), will be considered of Pro status.
5a Those entering the series will have their scores recorded for the season, top drivers in each of the 3 classes will receive trophy’s paid for from series entry funds.
Discussion on the remaining amount as to whether it should be distributed to the top driver in each class or just the top driver in 2.2 is welcome as is all discussion on this topic. I like this as well

6> It has also been discussed that there be no comp fee. This would not include the series fee as that would be a separate item.
6a This no fee to comp will end the days end payout. It would also, in my opinion encourage more drivers to come and do what this sport is intended to do, enjoy a day on the rocks. (if you are a pro, you are in the series and your payout is the end of the series.) If it helps get people on the rocks im all for it.

I really like the idea of getting the amateur class involved more.

[Rubbaneck]

Our series ran fine last season but looking at Ty and Patrick at the end of the day some things needed to be addressed.

We as competitors have talked and thought we could come up with a few ideas to help relieve some stress for you both. Watching the effort you two put into our Club is fantastic and deserves two .

We want to help with judging and course set-up so our idea was for series contenders to take care of that. This would help IMO at the beginning of the day when we all stand around waithing for volunteers to step up. I thank all of those in the past who stepped up to keep it moving faster.
If course set up is not an issue then the Club leaders can still have that privilege, we enjoy your courses all day long. But too much hiking around can cause some anguish and we can help.

Different classes with what a manufacturer supplies might help bring new people into the Club. Even though there is a sportsmans class I like the idea of a Amateur one too. Drivng is driving and maybe a small choice is what will spark some intrest.

As for the $$'s and prizes I really dont care but some others would like the kickdown for travel to big events. Either it be $50 or $150 it would be a nice little perk for you to go promote CORCC at the National level IMO.

I would hate to see the fun we all have together diminish into history because of a few ideas the Club has. These are stepping stones to make this one big happy family IMO so please dont take it the wrong way.



Love all you guys and gals in the CORCC.

Jay

[jason]

Being the guy that held the first CORCC comp and ran all of them for a few years until it got to be too much for me, here are some things I would offer up from my past experiences.

1. We are a USRCCA recognized club, which means we have agreed to run the USRCCA rules.

2. The USRCCA does not have an amateur "run what you brung" class. They have 1.9, 2.2 sportsman, 2.2 comp, and super.

3. Days to run comps take a long time, the only way to shorten that is to have less competitors, and we don't want that, so count on the days being long. Some simple math I have com up with in running large events that works well is take your total number of competitors, and multiply that by your course time limit plus 1 minute. So lets say a normal Colorado comp has 18 1.9 drivers, 47 2.2 drivers, and 15 super drivers, that is a total of 80 drivers, running 4 minute courses will take us 400 minutes, or 6.66 hours. Now add to that setup time, lunch break, and any other down time for any reason. That 400 minutes is based on rigs running on course non stop. So we easily end up with 9-10 hour days which in the winter is from sun up to sundown.

4. Making judging mandatory does not work. I know the rules inside out, I have been doing this longer than most anyone, yet I am a horrible judge. My slight bit of ADD does not allow me to focus at all.

5. The same thing goes for course designing, some people can drive the wheels off of their crawlers, but they cannot design a course that plays out well with competitors to save their lives.

6. Having the $5 buy in each day really made the comps more exciting for everyone, and like it's been mentioned in here already it is nice for those guys to take home a little gas money at the end of the day, and it makes the day feel a little more rewarding.

7. Running one of these events is a ton of work, we all know that, however many of the "newer guys" don't realize that, and they seem to want their comps just like they got their crawlers. They bought their crawlers, took them home opened the boxes and started crawling. Now they want to be able to show up to a comp, have everything all setup and waiting for them, walk right up run the courses in an hour or less then head home and have the scores waiting for them on the computer when they get home. That just isn't going to happen with a club this size. If you want things to move along faster there are only a couple of things you can do: get off your ass and help out, and have your rig ready to go at the starting line of a course when the judge is running the guy in front of you. These events are going to last all day, that is just the way it is, so show up early, pack a lunch, and be prepared to do work.


Hoppa, not picking on you, your post just was an easy one to quote that had the concerns that I wanted to address.

Originally Posted by Hoppa

Technically this is our club but it's no more of club than Hobbytown.

Wow, not sure what to say. A group of guys that have been crawling for more than 6 years together at locations all over the state is no more of a club than a group of guys that piled up some rock in a parking lot.

Originally Posted by Hoppa

I think we should have more comps than just the winter series.

I'll agree with you, but if you think about it, our winter series typically ends in June. In July we have Rocas, we take August and September off to prep for Nationals, and our series begins again in October.

Originally Posted by Hoppa

Having a member of the rules committee that competes would make sense. This is not meant in any disrespect towards Griz but I've only seen him once at a scale comp.

I am working on this.

Originally Posted by Hoppa

I think that scores should be posted the same day or the next. Not 2 weeks later.

I'll agree with you on that, having a computer at the site to enter the scores as they roll in really helps. Having to go home at the end of the day and then manually go through the sheets sucks.

I am hoping to be at the events with the RCC van and I'd be willing to help whoever our scoring guy is enter the scores. The van gives us a nice desk and plenty of light to do that.

Originally Posted by Hoppa

Judging is always going to be a problem because nobody wants to do it. I would like to see 2 Judges per course.

2 judges per course would be awesome, however until people start stepping up it's hard to find 1 judge per course.

[jason]

Another thing I wanted to address is the fact that the CORCC club is the front ranges USRCCA nationally recognized club. This club is setup to groom drivers to be prepared for Nationals and other National events. It should be tough, it should run the rules like they are written, and it should be fun.

While we welcome everyone at our events, they need to keep in mind that we are one of the premier clubs in the country and we run National caliber events. So with that said it may not be the best place to get your feet wet at your first comp.

We have so many people here both competing and running great events I personally think that the HobbyTown series, the Finishline series, and the RCHobbies series are a better place for newbies to cut in their teeth. Those are all great series and have awesome people helping run them.

I hope people don't take that in a bad way, they are great events but being set in a hobby shop atmosphere they are usually more relaxed and generally a better environment for people to learn the ropes.

[Cruzin Illusion]

Originally Posted by jason

Another thing I wanted to address is the fact that the CORCC club is the front ranges USRCCA nationally recognized club. This club is setup to groom drivers to be prepared for Nationals and other National events. It should be tough, it should run the rules like they are written, and it should be fun.

While we welcome everyone at our events, they need to keep in mind that we are one of the premier clubs in the country and we run National caliber events. So with that said it may not be the best place to get your feet wet at your first comp.

We have so many people here both competing and running great events I personally think that the HobbyTown series, the Finishline series, and the RCHobbies series are a better place for newbies to cut in their teeth. Those are all great series and have awesome people helping run them.

I hope people don't take that in a bad way, they are great events but being set in a hobby shop atmosphere they are usually more relaxed and generally a better environment for people to learn the ropes.

That is a good way of looking at it.

[THnCS]

Ideas for Comp Crawling

The following ideas are being discussed and we encourage your input to make this series and all series better.

A couple of definitions will help before reading on into the topic’s.

A1 Pro Class – Will be any driver who pays into the series, where competition will be the foremost ideal on their mind while driving.

S1---Sportsman Shafty/MOA--- Keep it the same as we did last year. They all run together, just seperated by shafty or MOA, same way they were doing at some of the big comps. I know a lot of people have bought the XR10. There will be a shafty winner and MOA winner. Once either of them want to step up and put dig on their rigs, now they are PRO, regardless of shafty or MOA. Same as last year, you run one 2.2 class per comp, not enough time to run in all three classes. That way if 2 shafty drivers show up and only 3 MOA guys show, they still have a class to run.
Now on to more items that have been discussed and are here for your input and reply.
Please be as specific, list item(s), with your reply or continued discussion.

1> Everyone entered in the series will take a rotation in the judging pool.
1a The rotation will be based on the list of drivers in the series for the season. These drivers will take judging responsibilities for the whole series. This takes all pressure off of amateurs as far as judging. Although everyone will be invited to keep score, keep time, etc. in conjunction with the assigned judges.
1b Judges will set up courses and assist other judges with same while check-in and tech are in progress. This means an earlier arrival to the comp site is part of that responsibility for those rotating. (those that travel a great distance will be rotated as necessary to prevent traveling pressure for those day(s), i.e. changing your day(s) with another closer to your home)

As far as Judging, I think everyone should have a go at it. We should have a fun comp that is a teaching comp, just like we did a few years ago. No pressure, no winner, all the noobs can get there feet wet and judge and ask questions on the rules. I know I learned alot from that day.

I have always thought the judges should get something. If we are paying $5 for each class, then some of that should go to the judges that sweat or freeze all day long. IF only a select few are qualified to judge, then they should be rewared. It is not often a judge makes the finals at a comp. Everyone in the Nats points chase does not want to judge, but that is the most qualified judges. We always have a select few that judge every comp, Skid,Cato, Joystick, Pickett, Patrick and a few others. Reward those that give there time to us. If they are constantly killing their chances on winning or qualifying for Nats, then they should get something. I don't mind judging, but I know I personally do not want to judge every comp, I also feel no one else should either.

2>Amateur class has been discussed that it should possibly include all crawler types, not just limited to 2 channel, no dig crawlers. Amateurs are amateurs, we just need to let them get better. Promoting this sport is what we are about. Drivers need to seek their own comfort level and should want to achieve the highest level they are comfortable at.
2aAmateurs will run the first series of gates on the courses as pro’s, but can use the remaining gates of the pro course as bonus gates. (maybe a bonus-land setup)
2b This is only suggested, the amateur courses could also deviate through different gates along the same layout.
See response above, I don't think we need to have 3 2.2 classes.

3>It is encouraged to keep time running, and the series as professional as possible, that there be a set check-in/tech time. If we are going to be more professional about the series, this needs to happen. (leave earlier if you are consistently late and can’t get there on time). (Judges will be adjusted as necessary for travel length to keep them from being pressured to arrive early and help with set-up.)

I personally like the courses we run and think Pat and Ty do a great job. They are challeging and for the most part doable, there will always be something that looks doable and is not. No one gets better just driving through a gate. Challenging courses seperate the good drivers from the rest. It also shows that you must tune your rig to your driving style, running cupcake courses in not going to help anyone get better. Doesn't matter if they are sportsman or pro.

3a Keep the courses 4 to 5 minutes max in length. Actually shorter is better. Learning to drive under these conditions proves to be more of the status of a National Event stature. Courses for amateurs will be a minimum amount of gates and/or design to promote good thinking habits without pressure to hurry, hurry, hurry. Pro Drivers are encouraged to remember, you are competitors, competitors deal with pressure and as such will be working on harder course lengths or designs within the same time frame.

Sounds good to me, I think we should definitely model whatever format Nationals is running. Can only make us better drivers and more prepared for the bigger comps and Nats.

4>Series payout should include, what the pro class will be driving for.
4a There should be trophy’s and/or gift cards/cash awards for World’s Event.
This has been brought up as past series awards have been late or not received. (not by this series alone)
4b There should also be recognition for the top five amateurs and an invite to join pro status if they wish. (again, it is our wish to promote this sport and it’s ideals)

5>It is agreed that all who enter into the (Series), will be considered of Pro status. I Agree
5a Those entering the series will have their scores recorded for the season, top drivers in each of the 3 classes will receive trophy’s paid for from series entry funds. Honestly could care less about a trophy or plaque, I have two at home that are in box.
Discussion on the remaining amount as to whether it should be distributed to the top driver in each class or just the top driver in 2.2 is welcome as is all discussion on this topic. . I think all the series money minus expenses should go back to the drivers that qualify for Nats. It should be split equally between all classes. Instead of $35 for the series for all three classes. $15 for each class you want to be in the series for, That way each class has there own pot of money that goes to the top two drivers. Honestly, I bet the top 2.2 drivers are going to be the same drivers for 1.9 and Super! At Least it is separate if that does not happen.

6> It has also been discussed that there be no comp fee. This would not include the series fee as that would be a separate item.
6a This no fee to comp will end the days end payout. It would also, in my opinion encourage more drivers to come and do what this sport is intended to do, enjoy a day on the rocks. (if you are a pro, you are in the series and your payout is the end of the series.)

Me personally, I like the cheddar in the game. Where else are you going to pay $5-$15 for that much entertainment!!! Hanging out with good people and having a blast. Then you have the chance to take some $$$ home with you, nothing better. Doesn’t really matter to me, but I like taking Rubba's $5 home with me. Gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling. He sure has taken enough of mine

I honestly think what we are doing is fine, just need to be more organized on comp day. I think Pat and Ty do a great job as it sits. Now that there are more drivers and more sponsored drivers competing, rccrawling is turning more competitive than ever before. I know the progression of the hobby and growth is sending rccrawling into this route. When I started in crawiling 3-4 years ago, you ran 2.2 pro and Super. We need to run what classes that are at Nationals and that should be it. This is our local club that qualifies for Nats, we should mirror the classes that they USRCCA recognizes. If one of the other clubs/hobbystores wants to run all the different classes, that is their right to do so, they typically have smaller turnouts and time generally is not an issue. We are one of two recognized CO USRCCA clubs, I see no reason to differ from what USRCCA has set as their standard. Once they add a class or modify and existing one, why change what we are doing.

Most of you know me pretty well now. I want to qualify for Nats just like the next guy, but at the end of the day, I just want to have a good time with a great group of guys/gals! Whatever we do, don't take the fun out of it.

[Hoppa]

Originally Posted by jason

Wow, not sure what to say. A group of guys that have been crawling for more than 6 years together at locations all over the state is no more of a club than a group of guys that piled up some rock in a parking lot.


I have the upmost respect for what all of you guys have done for this Hobby.
I guess my idea of a club is something that everyone who wants to be involved and have some input can. It just seems that typically we show up run and go home. I would love to be more involved and help out.
I freakin love this hobby. Or maybe I'm just addicted.



I'll agree with you, but if you think about it, our winter series typically ends in June. In July we have Rocas, we take August and September off to prep for Nationals, and our series begins again in October.

I definatly see you point. If we can get more people involved in the club maybe a couple other guys can throw few random CORCC comps when theres free weekend's and promote the Club.


I am hoping to be at the events with the RCC van and I'd be willing to help whoever our scoring guy is enter the scores. The van gives us a nice desk and plenty of light to do that.

That would be sick, it would be good to see you out there.

2 judges per course would be awesome, however until people start stepping up it's hard to find 1 judge per course.

Im planning on Judging as often as needed this season. If that means every comp so be it.

As far feeling picked on, not at all.

[Hoppa]

When it come's to judging i see a few people that want only judge part of the day. I plan on judging and for this series I think that the judges need to judge thier course all day to keep it as consistant as possible. Just like a larger scale event. Then at the end of the day the judges run together.
Maybe those that want to kinda judge can help the judge with time and marking down penilties untill someone can come and relieve them. To try and get two judges per course.
Just a thought.

[JOYSTICK]

Originally Posted by jason

Another thing I wanted to address is the fact that the CORCC club is the front ranges USRCCA nationally recognized club. This club is setup to groom drivers to be prepared for Nationals and other National events. It should be tough, it should run the rules like they are written, and it should be fun.

While we welcome everyone at our events, they need to keep in mind that we are one of the premier clubs in the country and we run National caliber events. So with that said it may not be the best place to get your feet wet at your first comp.

We have so many people here both competing and running great events I personally think that the HobbyTown series, the Finishline series, and the RCHobbies series are a better place for newbies to cut in their teeth. Those are all great series and have awesome people helping run them.

I hope people don't take that in a bad way, they are great events but being set in a hobby shop atmosphere they are usually more relaxed and generally a better environment for people to learn the ropes.

well said

[Ralphy]

I guess I gotta to get off someones nutsack, so here I go.



I personally like most of the rule changes, except that if someone in the amature class uses dig they get a 10 pt. penalty for that course, thus discouraging them from using it to win. They need to become better drivers and they cant do that not using dig ever. Rock crawling is supposed to be about having fun, first and foremost. And then may be to groom the newer guys for the national level events if thats what they want. But alot of us started when there was no novice class and thats when the sport really took off and the numbers really grew. I dont think The sportsmans class did that much of a difference, it just gave the newbs a easy way into the sport. So why not let then truely prepare for the pro class? I like the proposed change.

I also dont want to see the comp fees being wavered. If I win I would really like the payout.

I also like the idea of assigned judging, thus keeping all the whinners from never having to judging....ever. It's BS. Judging actually gives you an advantage for the day in most cases, so people should be ready and willing to judge from time to time. Patrick and Ty shouldnt be expected to get it all done.
They shouldnt have to be begging for judges, and the proposed option would eleviate that from happening. If you arent in a position to stick around all day then dont pay the series fees and you wont get assigned to judge, you'll just be there for the fun of it.

I would also like to see the whole "spotter" thing done away with, across the nation. This isnt 1/1 where you cant see your tires or the entire course, you have a birds-eye view of your rig and if your really the best driver there, you shouldnt need someone else pointing out your every move.
You should be able to drive your own rig and know where it needs to go without help.

As for you Ty, dont refer to me the way you did....you know what I mean. It's not like we are good friends, and I'll just laugh it off. I took offense to it, and I am in no mood to deal with another keyboard jockey.
I am going thru a nasty divorce right now, with my wife cheating on me with a nextdoor neighboor. I have no patience for that kind of BS. I wont stand for it. Dont push me right now or I will push back. Thats all I have to say.

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by sikax10

I guess I gotta to get off someones nutsack, so here I go.

Turtle(I know what you have said)


I personally like most of the rule changes, except that if someone in the amature class uses dig they get a 10 pt. penalty for that course, thus discouraging them from using it to win. They need to become better drivers and they cant do that not using dig ever.
I also dont want to see the comp fees being wavered. If I win I would really like the payout.
I also like the idea of assigned judging, thus keeping all the whinners from never having to judging....ever. It's BS. Patrick and Ty shouldnt be expected to get it all done.
And if Jason wants things to be fair and fun, maybe he should stick to his guns at all the National level comps instead of letting sponsers get away with BS rules changes mid-comp.( just stick to fairness and the "rules", and dont change them half way through.)
Things need to change. That's how I feel and I dont care what slack I get from saying how I feel. If I cant speak my mind, than I dont want to be a part of it at all. this is america where I have the freedom to say what I want. Remember that.



As for you Ty, dont refer to me the way you did....you know what I mean.
I dont hang from anyone's nutsack....I am going thru a nasty divorce right now, with my wife cheating on me with a nextdoor neighboor. I have no patience for that kind of BS. I wont stand for it. Dont push me right now or I will push back. Thats all I have to say.

You better watch yourself and look at the character of your so called friends a little closer.

The personal references to me in a public thread are uncalled for if you got a problem man up.

[Ralphy]

ok...

[jason]

Originally Posted by sikax10

As for Jason wanting things to be fair, maybe he should have stick to his guns at all the National level comps instead of letting sponsers get away with BS rules changes mid-comp.( grow a pair and stick to fairness and the "rules") I dont care what he says, thats Bull! get over it, it's the truth and more than me agree.

The only rule change that I can think you may be talking about is how we tallied the overall trophy at Rocas. The change we made did not have anything to do with any sponsors, nor did it effect the outcome of the winner.

If that is not the change you are talking about please let me know what you are referring to.

[Ralphy]

The rules I am refering to are these.
At Rocas, super dave judged the course with the box all day right, and I know for a fact that he told other competitors that they couldnt stand on a bucket in the box, noone else was allowed, but when he ran the course he stood on a bucket. Thats not right, or fair, and that course was right in front of the tent. The bucket gave him a better view and therefore an advantage. Another rule broken was that on every course there where supposed to be two judges, and if two judges judged together all day they werent supposed to judge each other at the end of the day. Thats what I understood. But when superdave and his co judge/teammate ran their courses at the end of the day many people told me they were judging each other, mono a mono. thats not fair to anyone else who followed the rules, personally i dont trust that their scores were kept accurately and fairly, because of the fact that they didnt insist on following the rules.
And lastly,during the finals, dave had 2 or 3 spotters constantly standing in front of the judge, making it hard for him to see what was going on and nothing was said about it. Why does the great superdave need that much help if he was the best driver there? I just dont get it. I also thought each competitor was only allowed to have 1 spotter. oH YA,AND he didnt have his rig on the line and ready in the alotted time, he was too busy changing his tires last minute. He should have been DQ'd. And that did effect the overall outcome of the comp. If he had been penalized properly, would he still have won? Thats my two cents.

Now, I wasnt at the Nats., but I was told that bigwig top drivers were allowed to take off-course repairs, which others werent allowed per "the rules", and at least one was allowed to start the course over. Maybe I was mis-informed, but if that happened thats not right. Rules are rules for everyone, no matter who you are.
Now I know, you sit in the tent ,most of the day, so things get past you and you probubly dont think thats your fault. But as the event organizer and "judge", I think that maybe you, or someone you appoint, should be in charge of making sure that the events are properly run and run fairly for all competitors. The blame has to fall on someones shoulders for the errors that went on. Again, this only my opinion.

Oh, and I also find it interesting that my original post was quoted so long after I edited it. You could have just sent me a pm, but now its out there so , oh well.
I was only hoping it hadnt been seen because I felt bad on how I worded it. I was a little roudy on Tequila last night and dealing with personal issues, and vented in an inappropriate manner. For that, I am actually embarrased.

[jason]

Originally Posted by sikax10

The rules I am refering to are these.
At Rocas, super dave judged the course with the box all day right, and I know for a fact that he told other competitors that they couldnt stand on a bucket in the box, noone else was allowed, but when he ran the course he stood on a bucket. Thats not right, or fair, and that course was right in front of the tent. The bucket gave him a better view and therefore an advantage.

He told everyone on the first day their feet had to be in the dirt. On the second day that wasn't the case. This was protested to the event marshals and they ruled on it. Nothing at all to do with me. That is why the event marshals are there, that is their job.

Originally Posted by sikax10

Another rule broken was that on every course there where supposed to be two judges, and if two judges judged together all day they werent supposed to judge each other at the end of the day. Thats what I understood. But when superdave and his co judge/teammate ran their courses at the end of the day many people told me they were judging each other, mono a mono. thats not fair to anyone else who followed the rules, personally i dont trust that their scores were kept accurately and fairly, because of the fact that they didnt insist on following the rules.

This is the first time I have heard that, and sadly over 2 months after the event ended it's a good time to protest it. If you saw something you should have stood up and filed a complaint with the marshals, just like someone did when he stood on the box.

The rules don't just fall on the shoulders of the judges, marshals, and event organizers, they fall on every single person there. If you see something wrong find a marshal and make them aware of it.

Originally Posted by sikax10

And lastly,during the finals, dave had 2 or 3 spotters constantly standing in front of the judge, making it hard for him to see what was going on and nothing was said about it. Why does the great superdave need that much help if he was the best driver there? I just dont get it. I also thought each competitor was only allowed to have 1 spotter.

During the finals I was there and kept yelling at people that were in the way to move, that weren't running. We did our best job to keep people out of the way, obviously we didn't do a good enough job. You need to keep in mind also that it is very hard sometimes to tell who is a spotter and who is just someone watching and yelling out suggestions. That reason alone is why the USRCCA cannot ban spotters.

Originally Posted by sikax10

oH YA,AND he didnt have his rig on the line and ready in the alotted time, he was too busy changing his tires last minute. He should have been DQ'd. And that did effect the overall outcome of the comp. If he had been penalized properly, would he still have won? Thats my two cents.

Actually yes he did have his rig to the line in the alotted time, I stood there personally and counted the timer down.

Originally Posted by sikax10

Now, I wasnt at the Nats., but I was told that bigwig top drivers were allowed to take off-course repairs, which others werent allowed per "the rules", and at least one was allowed to start the course over. Maybe I was mis-informed, but if that happened thats not right.

Actually the course judged by Jake Wright and Jeremy Toney for some reason allowed off course repairs. One driver I know that did it, Jessica Downing was brought up by the marshals and had her score turned into a 40. I don't know what other drivers did the off course repair, but that was a misunderstanding of the rules by those judges.

Originally Posted by sikax10

Rules are rules for everyone, no matter who you are. Now I know, you sit in the tent ,most of the day, so things get past you and you probubly dont think thats your fault. But as the event organizer and "judge", I think that maybe you, or someone you appoint, should be in charge of making sure that the events are properly run and run fairly for all competitors. The blame has to fall on someones shoulders for the errors that went on. Again, this only my opinion.

I agree with you that rules are rules, and everyone needs to follow them. At these last 2 events that we are talking about I was neither a judge or a marshal, I was simply the event promoter and organizer. We count on judges knowing and understanding the rules, and sometimes they don't. We have marshals in place to make fair decisions, but if no one brings up the issues with them how can they?

Bottom line is that in these competitions we have human judges, and with that there will be mistakes. We try to have a clear set of rules to avoid those mistakes, but with the human element in the mix there will always be issues. Bottom line is if you see an issue bring it up to the people running the event the minute the issue happens, don't wait until months later to throw it in someones face.

Originally Posted by sikax10

Oh, and I also find it interesting that my original post was quoted so long after I edited it. You could have just sent me a pm, but now its out there so , oh well. I was only hoping it hadnt been seen because I felt bad on how I worded it.

I am personally getting sick and tired of all the Colorado guys talking shit behind my back. I have devoted my life to this hobby and have been working so hard at it over the last year I haven't even gotten to touch any of my RC rigs. I'd think at the least the guys I consider my friends could call me up and talk about it man to man.

Originally Posted by sikax10

I was a little roudy on Tequila last night and dealing with personal issues, and vented in an inappropriate manner. For that, I am actually embarrased.

A drunk mans words are a sober mans thoughts.

[DeaDShorT]

Well said Jason!!

This stuff doesn't need to be aired on the board out in public. It needs to be put to rest, for the sake of CORCC.

[Ralphy]

Ok, my bad then. Maybe I need to pay better attention then to how things go. This isnt the first or last time I will be behind on the game. I didnt realize I had any right to say anything at comps, like it wasnt my place and all. Thank you for taking the time to clarify things for me.
I dont think people talk about you behind your back. At least not that I hear. You HAVE dedicated your life to this hobby and we all appreciate it. As for the drunken analogy, I personally dont usually say things I was thinking about prior to making an ass of myself. I just make an ass of myself and then think, "why did I say that?" Thats probubly one of the reasons my wife is divorcing me. Hopefully someday I can rid myself of that negative trait. As for now, all I can say is thank you for responding with such detail. My foot tastes like crap. And I will just stay out of things that I dont know enough about from now on.

[James003]

On a lighter note........these threads have brought back to life a relatively dead Colorado section of the forum.....this forum been boring for like 3 months now.....sheesh, why's it gotta take controversy and anarchy to wake us up lol

I love all you RC RockCrawlers peoples....well.....except Wyatt cuz he's a punk, and Dillon cuz he's Dillon, and Thomas cuz he picks on me, and Hootie cuz he didn't give me his XR10, and Neil cuz he always whoops my ass, and Tom cuz he always whoops my ass, and Hoppa cuz he won't 86jeep my berg axles for me and he whoops my ass, and Paul cuz he's nice, and Chris cuz he won't give me any discounts at HTW, and Tim cuz he has too many RC's and tables and tents, and Becky cuz she's really nice while she's wooping my ass...I got more but drawing a blank on the rest so sorry for leaving you out



hope this made someone smile, this forum has been intense the last few days. RCCrawling is about having fun, lets all work on acheiving that sometimes hard to reach goal ok I know it can be done, i'm a believer!!