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Old 10-01-2004, 09:13 AM   #1
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Default Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

The topic of competition rules has become very complicated.

To simplify the disscusion a little please post you opinion here about : Vehicle Requirments
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Old 10-01-2004, 09:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaetwo
We need to build on our existing rules just as you and Pinch have pointed out. Here are some other things to add:

Body rules - A competator must run a body. It must be 10th scale or larger. It must originally have fenders although cutting off the fenders is okay. The reason for having fenders is to eliminate the use of like a Losi or Associated buggy body. It must have a cab and be the original length.

A competator can only run 1 vehicle durring the event (by definition an event is that days worth of crawling, or a series of courses). For example, lets say Pinch and I hold a comp with 3 sections, each with 6 gates. A competator could only compete with 1 rig durring that event (3 sections) The exception to the rule would be if there where enough vehicles to break up an event into classes (shafties vs. clods or somthing)

A competator can not change his/her vehicle durring an event. Changing a vehicles wheelbase, hight or width is to be concidered a vehicle change and therefor illegal. I think it was you griz that stated "If I have to build a battle bot to compete then I just won't compete anymore" Well spoken.

We need to set a max width and wheelbase.

Min. tire size of 6" max of ? 2.2 crawlers cannot share the same comp. as the pro series.

You cannot run more than 2 motors and they must be electric. (seems dumb to have to mention this but its all crossed our sick minds to put a motor on each wheel)

As for comparing real 1:1/full size crawler rules and features to R/C.....THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AND THEREFOR CANNOT BE SCORED OR JUDGE AS SUCH.

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Old 10-01-2004, 09:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Why do you have to have a body?? that shure limits some of us from building tubers. I guess carbonfiber is out too. I am starting to think why bother with competeing before I get started, just like the 1:1's rules, all for the few and not the many.
I guess that is why there is a UROC and a CAL-ROC sponcered events in 1:1. One of them is just so much funner to go to.

Edit: to add to my disageerment do you all realize will that body rule is going to hold back alot of talented and resoucefull peaple I know in Wa. state alone.
Plus the fact that a BS rule (bodey rule) in my eys and would probally kill what I have already started here with the fastly growing interest in this type of competetion.
I alone introduced RC crawling to over 300 peaple at one time here in Wa. in person alone.

I am going to have to really think this thru now, and I can.
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Old 10-01-2004, 10:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDude
Why do you have to have a body?? that shure limits some of us from building tubers. I guess carbonfiber is out too. I am starting to think why bother with competeing before I get started, just like the 1:1's rules, all for the few and not the many.
I guess that is why there is a UROC and a CAL-ROC sponcered events in 1:1. One of them is just so much funner to go to.

Edit: to add to my disageerment do you all realize will that body rule is going to hold back alot of talented and resoucefull peaple I know in Wa. state alone.
Plus the fact that a BS rule (bodey rule) in my eys and would probally kill what I have already started here with the fastly growing interest in this type of competetion.
I alone introduced RC crawling to over 300 peaple at one time here in Wa. in person alone.

I am going to have to really think this thru now, and I can.
Before someone gets teary eyed, why not ask if Tubers apply to this rule?

It seems pretty obvious to me.
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Old 10-01-2004, 11:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

http://www.rccrawler.com/postp24418.html#24418
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

either they would not apply or if there are enough a "pro-modified" anything goes class for tubers
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Ok, wellt try and keep all these threads updated but Pinchflats link gives the answer.

When we say body we are including tubers in that definition as long as they resemble a buggy type vehicle. One tube running down the center of the chassis should not count as a tuber though.

My interest lies in keeping these things looking like 1:1 vehicles in order to attract the attention of bystanders and 1:1 people who have never seen anything like what we do. People that do not know anything about r/c will become interested because they look like minature versions of what they drive and have seen in magazines.
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Old 10-01-2004, 04:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments


Well between SCORING and VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS it seems that vehicle requirements and design issues are the
HOT button!

I agree with Grizz about the look and basic function, and looks of the vehicles being important. We need to have some sort of scale appearence.

I don't want to restrict vehicle design too much, other than length and width (Jason's "BOX" Idea)

Restricting tire choices to ones intended for RC use.

Restricting axles to 2.

Axle driven wheels only.

Maybe a rule that says your vehicle cannot operate outside of the "BOX". That would eliminate arms, hooks, etc.

You should be allowed the change anything you want on your vehicle at anytime. During a run you will be subject to penalty points for time and touching, but thats your choice if you feel the need. Between runs what ever you want to do.

Battery changes may be the exception...............I have mixed feelings about this one.
In other forms of racings it seems they can turn into battery & motor contests. I do'nt think being able to change your battery gives you much of an advatange, but I am sure someone will figure out a way.
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Old 10-01-2004, 05:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Ok, I have thought about it and I think tubers should be ok. I mean think about it, I know that RC crawling is way different.

1) the power to wieght ratio is something a 1:1 competeter can only dream about .

2) I see the RC crawler as what it can be, basically a rock ant.

What do I mean by rock ant?? I know the potential is there for the rc crawler to out do a 1:1 in the ability to climb, side hill, desend, and basically do things a 1:1 will never be able to do with a metalic structured chassie and that is already known.

So what I am getting at is, wouldn't be amazing to see a rc crawler take a 50* vert like it was nothing, sidehill like at 45* + is the norm. doing obsticalls that when scaled up to 1:1 couldn't even be conceived.

Besides, you all think that the combustale engine is going to live forever?? There is alot to be learned for the future development of let's say an electric 1:1. As time go's by technolgy that is to expencive now will not be forever.

Here is an additon that could be used in the rules since tuber's are a minority and might have an advantege and not restircted to metalic based materials like a 1:1 because we all know that rc crawlers are NOT the same.


Simple, let's say 2 out of 15 trucks are tubers. Well to keep it fare for everybody, becuase not all peaple can fabracate or have the resources and an income to do everthing, look at what I came up with.


rule ex:
Tuber chassied trucks would have to start with a below 0 score.

How would that work??
That way when the points add up thru a course the full bodied rigs, if at a disadvantage, will already automatically be helped in the scoring system to even the playing field out.

Addition to such said rule:
If there is more than 3 "tuber" style trucks, then such said trucks would run together and be scored against each other in a "tuber" class with the rules that govern all the trucks the same. The dimensions would also have to meet the"box" like everbody.
That way there could be a traditional first, secound and third place finish at the least.

Also "tubers" shouldn't be resticted to metalic material's.
It is not impossible to do a carbonfiber "tuber" style chassie. It would just be expensive and if somebody like me could pull it off then why not see if it can be done and still represent a 1:1 look.
If the desighn proves to be durable and can be done then why not??

There is alway's room for adding restrictions later if a such said desighn cannot be followed because of cost .I don't think the possabiltys left to be found should be killed before they are born.

That is not how advances in desighns get to grow, by restricting them .

Ex:
Do you all think "Tiny" would be here today with a front engine only restriction in the beginning in 1:1?? and the other advances in a mid or rear engine desighn in 1:1?? I would say the dominating season of "Tiny" has leveled out since then a bit compared to the introduction of that "comp buggy". Why did it? peaple learned somthing and now look at what has happened to a traditional front engine comp buggy.

I hope that sheds a new light on what can and will be done someday if not resticted down to not even giving advances a chance either by me or somebody. There are many things that I feel haven't been thought of yet, and it is already happening with what the guy's in Australia are putting out.

Give it some thought and start thinking "outside the box" because the rc crawling thing is just that, a "out side the box" type of hobby/sport, the one thing 1:1's and rc crawlers will always share.


I also apoligize for posting before thinking and typing a post like the one above.
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Old 10-01-2004, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

I agree with pretty much everything in this topic, just a few thoughts.

Maxx tire size, if you think about it you could very easaly cut a mountain bike tire (tubed-they seem to be softer) then glue it on a narrowed 40 series rim for a 8 1/2" or taller tire, or bigger pending on your rim choice.

The 'box' idea, my (rather big) truck is going to have an 18" wheelbase, I dont have any problems running with trucks this long but 16" is enough in my mind, I also like the fact that the box would make trucks running bigger tires use a shorter wheelbase, so you would really have to play with your tire and wheelbase combos.

Any form of a 2.2 tire class, I've rather harshly defended NOT seperating smaller trucks for a good while now, mainly because they can handle 90% of the stuff the bigger trucks can as good or better (want proof?). I would be all for a 'scale' class, but why not alow the people who wish to run them to run them with the bigger trucks?

I'm with fish on tuining and the battery changing, most people can do a normal course on one battery easy (I remeber CSR ran the corse twice on a single 1700 mAh pack at the last event-well okay he pushed it over the finnish line) but I can see where not alowing it would limmit people from using pullmasters and the such.
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Old 10-01-2004, 06:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Wow I didnt know that you were running a tube chassis on your tlt. I thought you had just lengthened the stocker :? If a guy has a tuber its easy put some lexan side panels on it make it look like a body. I dont think that we should limit the bodies that people run especially to "crawler" bodies as every truck at the comps would look the same. Also I dont agree with the body having to be the stock length. You want to keep it like "scale" Let people do what the want to with their body, if all they want left is a hood and doors, so be it. If you are going to restrict the rules to be like racing buggies or nitro trucks you are going to make it boring. I got into this because I got tired of racing because I had no freedom of expresion. If the rules that are put into effect have that same effect we here in oregon will simply not use them. I like the idea of using a sized box and the rest of the rules seem ok except for the rear steering, But let people run the body of their choice, You never know it may be what separates the winner from the looser at a major event!!!
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishmaxx
Battery changes may be the exception...............I have mixed feelings about this one.

Battery changes halfway through a course is sad. I can run up to an hour on one CHEAP 6-cell 1400 NiCd battery. Everyone in Oregon can run 2-3 courses on one battery pack.... although with our 10 minute time limit it's mostly how you drive that saves your juice.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishmaxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaetwo
Body rules - A competator must run a body. It must be 10th scale or larger. It must originally have fenders although cutting off the fenders is okay. The reason for having fenders is to eliminate the use of like a Losi or Associated buggy body. It must have a cab and be the original length.


Wait.. must have fenders but cutting them off is okay? Kind of saying no but meaning yes all at the same time


Body rules shouldn't be a consideration to any type of scoring or placing you into any catogories.

Original length? That too is dumb. What if someone is running a truck body but another person is running a Jeep body..... the Jeep body is much shorter than the truck one... could the truck bodied guy shorten it up to the Jeep length? That'd make them equal... Right?


Body rules = DUMB
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Battery changes halfway through a course is sad. I can run up to an hour on one CHEAP 6-cell 1400 NiCd battery. Everyone in Oregon can run 2-3 courses on one battery pack.(toyo)


im betting anyone who cant make the corse in one battery pack isnt going to place well anyway.Theres no excuse short of a fire that you should need to swap out a pack mid run.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

I say forget the body rules. People naturally want their rigs to look good, so let them do what they want. We don't want all the trucks to look the same. Lets get size rules hammered down before we start worrying about bodies.

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Old 10-01-2004, 08:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer
Lets get size rules hammered down before we start worrying about bodies.

Yes.

1. Width(min & max)
2. Length(min & max)
3. Tire size(2.2, Clod/Maxx & Kongs) <-- really only 3 tire sizes if you think about it.


Just seperate classes by the items listed above.
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Old 10-01-2004, 09:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Whatever happened to letting someone build the best rig, within whatever dimensions they want? I say limiting tire size to kongs max is cool, but if someone wants a 20" wheelbase, Then they're screwed on turns. If someone wants a short wheelbase for manueverability, then they're screwed on the inclines.

Lets not turn this into nascar
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Old 10-02-2004, 05:36 AM   #18
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highmark
Maxx tire size, if you think about it you could very easaly cut a mountain bike tire (tubed-they seem to be softer) then glue it on a narrowed 40 series rim for a 8 1/2" or taller tire, or bigger pending on your rim choice.
Tires intended for RC use covers this problem
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Old 10-02-2004, 05:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Quote:
Originally Posted by sambmx
Battery changes halfway through a course is sad. I can run up to an hour on one CHEAP 6-cell 1400 NiCd battery. Everyone in Oregon can run 2-3 courses on one battery pack.(toyo)


im betting anyone who cant make the corse in one battery pack isnt going to place well anyway.Theres no excuse short of a fire that you should need to swap out a pack mid run.
You are assuming that a fresh battery is put in at the start. We crawled around for 20-30 minutes before we started last time.
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Old 10-02-2004, 07:36 AM   #20
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Default Re: Competion Rules: Vehicle Requirments

Has there been any talk of a maximum weight limit? I dont recall seeing any. Should that be a consideration?

On bodies...if its a scale class, bodies should not have fenders modified. If you want to cut the top off and add a full interior that would be ok.
Any other class I'd say anything goes. Tubers not required to run a body or panels.

It seems some people want classes and some dont feel its time yet. Can we create classes now and when an event is held, if there arent enough registered to hold a seperate class, it is announced and they just have to compete together.

People have to keep in mind that this part of the hobby is in its infant stages and is going to grow. I think it would be better to have the classes set now so when new participants join the sport they can build their rigs to suit and not have to reconfigure them later to fit new classes. If a class needs some fine tuning in the future, thats not a big deal.
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