Course ideas for the Nationals

[Just Zach]

While I think it's an awesome idea for the Street class I think it takes a bit away from the scaleness of the Trail class because of huge tires mounted awkwardly on crawlers that even in 1:1 might not carry a spare. Whatever you do though I'll be there excited to crawl with a tire mounted if needed

[PinchFlat]

So... I'm getting -10 points for carrying a spare on one course and changing it out during my run wasting time. The spare can be the exact same tire/wheel I run on my rig. So really, when it comes down to it, I get -10 bonus on one of the courses for wasting some time.

I'm I understanding this right?

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by wyoming

Tire change Sounds like an awesome idea with me, my rig has two full size matching spares already. As for winching my rig is too heavy at 12lbs for any free hanging winching and I wouldn't be willing to risk it for points anyway. With the type of trucks I build I found most of the courses were much to difficult last year since My only emphasis in building a scale rig is that it look like a real truck and drive doing obstacles that look scale appropriate, and not obstacles just trying to be difficult or unrealistic for what a real rational off-roader would attempt. The rigs I am building this year are going to be even more "lightly modded stock truck" scale looking than my Land Rover last year so whether or not they can even make one gate I'm sticking to the total scale look regardless of the courses, it will be fun to try sticking to my scale guns anyway.

I agree with wyoming here. If we want to negate the advantages of a "cheater" rig, a great way to do that would be to make courses that the "concourse" scale rigs can finish with a decent score. If the courses are too tough the "concourse" rigs suffer and the "cheater" rigs can whittle away at the scale points advantage.

I was not there last year but imo a free hanging winch obstacle up a vertical cliff is only going to give the "cheater" rigs an advantage. Would I do it? Sure, because I know my winch can pull me up but such is not the case for all the guys trying to stick to the scale intention of this event.

I think the spare tire thing is a great idea. I don't know if I'll do it since who the heck carries a 47" spare on their rig?

The courses in 2008 were excellent because they were not crazy hard and they made you think about creative driving and winching. That's the kind of thing that will get a 30 point rig into the finals; and isn't that what we want to see?

[ecoli]

Originally Posted by Just Zach

While I think it's an awesome idea for the Street class I think it takes a bit away from the scaleness of the Trail class because of huge tires mounted awkwardly on crawlers that even in 1:1 might not carry a spare. Whatever you do though I'll be there excited to crawl with a tire mounted if needed

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I think the spare tire thing is a great idea. I don't know if I'll do it since who the heck carries a 47" spare on their rig?

x3. My TJ won't be carrying a spare, would look ridiculous on there. Haven't figured out the true scale, but the tires come out somewhere between a 47" and 54" tire. Not really feasible to change that size tire on the trail for 1:1, so I think the scale class should reflect that. While I won't be entering the street class, my Blazer does carry a spare and it does look pretty much like it belongs on there, so I do think it's a great idea for this class.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

The courses in 2008 were excellent because they were not crazy hard and they made you think about creative driving and winching. That's the kind of thing that will get a 30 point rig into the finals; and isn't that what we want to see?

Sounds good to me. I definitely tried to build my rig so that it's capable, but when it came to the decision of scale vs. capability, I chose scale every time.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by PinchFlat

So... I'm getting -10 points for carrying a spare on one course and changing it out during my run wasting time. The spare can be the exact same tire/wheel I run on my rig. So really, when it comes down to it, I get -10 bonus on one of the courses for wasting some time.

I'm I understanding this right?

No Pinchy, you get a +10 for being an ass .







The reason you get a -10 is for carrying a spare, which is going to throw off your COG, plus you have to take the time to change it, plus you have to drive with the spare for half the course. This causes you to decide if you want a full size spare, or carry a lighter smaller spare. It basically makes you have to think a little, which should give me an advantage over you .

[toyofast]

Tim... I don't care how you lay out the courses, just make sure to have room for the "media" folks. The 2010 MSD Nats will be in full HD this year from me

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

No Pinchy, you get a +10 for being an ass .







The reason you get a -10 is for carrying a spare, which is going to throw off your COG, plus you have to take the time to change it, plus you have to drive with the spare for half the course. This causes you to decide if you want a full size spare, or carry a lighter smaller spare. It basically makes you have to think a little, which should give me an advantage over you .

Ok, I wasn't thinking of a smaller spare. That makes it a bit more intriuging. So in theory I could carry a 1.9 Rok Lox as a spare if I wanted to try finishing the course with it on. I guess I will plan for a spare at least.

Originally Posted by toyofast

Tim... I don't care how you lay out the courses, just make sure to have room for the "media" folks. The 2010 MSD Nats will be in full HD this year from me

We need to have rigs lined up along the course like you had at TTC. That was awesome. Everyone should bring some "action figures" to put as fans cheering the drivers on. I'm bringing my own posse.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Ok, I wasn't thinking of a smaller spare. That makes it a bit more intriuging. So in theory I could carry a 1.9 Rok Lox as a spare if I wanted to try finishing the course with it on. I guess I will plan for a spare at least.

Yep, any legal scale tire can be used as a spare for this course. If you want you can use a 1.55 wheel/tire combo as a spare for the tire change course, you just have to consider that you have to drive the last 5 gates with it on your truck.....you also will have to drive with your 2.2 RokLox on your truck for the last 5 gates.....that's where it gets interesting. Is the -10 really worth it?

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

We need to have rigs lined up along the course like you had at TTC. That was awesome. Everyone should bring some "action figures" to put as fans cheering the drivers on. I'm bringing my own posse.

Every time I see those videos (and the trucks in the back ground) I get a smile on my face, soo cool.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Yep, any legal scale tire can be used as a spare for this course. If you want you can use a 1.55 wheel/tire combo as a spare for the tire change course, you just have to consider that you have to drive the last 5 gates with it on your truck.....you also will have to drive with your 2.2 RokLox on your truck for the last 5 gates.....that's where it gets interesting. Is the -10 really worth it?

I can see where skimping on a spare too much would really come back and bite you. Like you said, it's a balance. If it's worth it at all.

Originally Posted by War Pig

Every time I see those videos (and the trucks in the back ground) I get a smile on my face, soo cool.

Me too. I was showing it to Ace ad he thought that was a great touch as well.

What about a rig rescue for a bonus? Have a rolled over rig in a tight situation and the bonus would be for righting the rig and getting it back on the trail. It would be time consuming but if you knew what you were doing you could do it fairly quickly.

[kaetwo]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

What about a rig rescue for a bonus? Have a rolled over rig in a tight situation and the bonus would be for righting the rig and getting it back on the trail. It would be time consuming but if you knew what you were doing you could do it fairly quickly.

I love that idea!!!

[slobin3d]

or some sort of 5 point winch obstacle? Kind of like what Chris and Lance did at the final course a few years back. something that would require several winch points to keep a truck upright and moving forward.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by kaetwo

I love that idea!!!

I love that you love that idea.

Originally Posted by slobin3d

or some sort of 5 point winch obstacle? Kind of like what Chris and Lance did at the final course a few years back. something that would require several winch points to keep a truck upright and moving forward.

Yeah. It would be difficult to do what we did with only one winch but maybe have a snatch block so people could do it solo. Or have it as a buddy system.

[PinchFlat]

Originally Posted by War Pig

No Pinchy, you get a +10 for being an ass .

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by kaetwo

I love that idea!!!

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I love that you love that idea.

Do you two need a moment alone?

[kaetwo]

Now that you mention it........

Oh Griz!!!!!!!

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by toyofast

Do you two need a moment alone?

I would love that.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by slobin3d

or some sort of 5 point winch obstacle? Kind of like what Chris and Lance did at the final course a few years back. something that would require several winch points to keep a truck upright and moving forward.

What are you guys trying to do to me??? Do you realize that I have to build 15 courses in 2 days as it is? Stop trying to make more work for me.....BTW, who's going to be in Montana early and wants to help design courses?

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

What are you guys trying to do to me??? Do you realize that I have to build 15 courses in 2 days as it is? Stop trying to make more work for me.....BTW, who's going to be in Montana early and wants to help design courses?

I thought this thread was to get ideas from us. Not just for you to tell us what ideas you had.

I won't be getting ther until early evening Thursday, and that's if I leave at the buttcrack of dawn, which is unlikely.

[hotwheels000]

You now Glen and Myself will be in town Tuesday to help build coarses

Dont worry Grizz, by the time Tim has spent 3 days with me, he will tell me to go build what ever I want and get out of his hairI have ideas

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by hotwheels000

You now Glen and Myself will be in town Tuesday to help build coarses

Dont worry Grizz, by the time Tim has spent 3 days with me, he will tell me to go build what ever I want and get out of his hairI have ideas

Excellent...............