Cant take it anymore, Gotta Vent

[edge540]

I dont like to bitch about the rules like some people do and honestly reading page after page of bs in the other rule discussion hurts my freakin brain.

With all the rule changes and new classes I think everybody did a great job but ONE thing really frosts my arse.

Winching

If winching is the same point penalty as a reverse and there are no free reverses then you only get one try at an obstacle before you decide to winch. If you drive smart and think your way through the points your not going to make several attempts at clearing an obstacle, you will try once and then pull cable unless your positive you took a bad line and can clear it with a reverse.

I think this is crap.

I like to see winching and im dam good at it but id rather see guys "Drive there truck!" I take pride in "Walking a Line" when most guys have to winch it even if it means a reverse or 3 to get up. Its bragging rites! Think about it: after the comp what do we all talk about?? "Did you see Dan walk the climb to gate 3, wow that was awesome what tires was he running.........."

In 1:1 Wheeling pullin cable is a last case scenario. You will back up try again, back up try another line, back up farther and hit it in 4th gear on the pipe and repeat this until your temp gauge pegs before you will just winch it. In the real world if your the guy that winched your buddies will give you crap all the way home.

I understand that in KOH and serious rock crawling you have a spotter that is guiding you and rigging the winch etc. There is no penalty there they just drive on the clock.

Why couldn't we make winching 3-5 points to encourage people to drive there truck and see some of these trucks doing work. There will still be plenty of opportunity to use your winch.

Just my thoughts, if you guys think that this makes sense that the rules could be changed. If you guys don't like the idea then Ill S.T.F.U.

[War Pig]

I'm with you Steve. When we were discussing the rules, some people on the committee wanted to make winching free. I personally think it should be 3 points to make people less likely to use it, but it's too late now. I think if we revise the rules for next year, people are going to want to change it...we'll see. I noticed at our last comp some people taking a big tumble, getting stuck, or rolling over and just winching over or out for 1 point. Doesn't seem like much of a punishment for totally screwing the pooch on the course, and you don't have to be so careful driving if you know you can just spool winch for 1 measly point.

[Rokpile]

I also agree with you Steve, for once you make sence. I think we're
going to see a lot more winching if they're smart and watch their points.
I also see comps getting long with 50 drivers winching now

[skid]

Keep in mind, the penalty of time winching.

And yes, 1 point is just a slap on the hand. 3 sounds about right. Not 5 because that's the same as a rollover, so no need to winch a flopped rig.
.02$

[Eric_M]

I have to agree. I dont like to winch in my 1:1 unless I have to. Why should I drive my scaler with the idea of winching on everything hard?

I also dont like it because the people with the crazy winches will be the time winners just because their winch is faster and can hold more line.

[TURTLE]

Yep I agree as well, doesn't make that much sense.

[johnnyh66]

I'm just wondering if there is a length limit to the winch line?

[Grizzly4x4]

One of the best things about scale crawling is that you can use a winch. Even when winching was free you would still see guys taking multiple tries at an obstacle, because they wanted to "make it".

In the context of competitions, why are you bringing a trail ride "I can drive it and you can't" attitude when you should be thinking "I'm going to make it over this obstacle the quickest, easiest way possible"? The winch may not cost you much in points but it will cost you in time.

Whether you winch or take multiple attempts you are most likely still going to be beat by the guy who walks it in one attempt because he is a better driver or has a better rig; so strive to be the guy who walks it. Not punish the guys who struggle.

That's my take on it, for what it's worth.

[skid]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

In the context of competitions, why are you bringing a trail ride "I can drive it and you can't" attitude when you should be thinking "I'm going to make it over this obstacle the quickest, easiest way possible"? .

Because it's a competition. I see it as just another avenue of it. Instead of your rig versus the course, now it's you versus another person.

Kinda brings it back to trying to please everyone, which doesn't happen becuase there is too many different views.

[edge540]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

One of the best things about scale crawling is that you can use a winch. Even when winching was free you would still see guys taking multiple tries at an obstacle, because they wanted to "make it".

In the context of competitions, why are you bringing a trail ride "I can drive it and you can't" attitude when you should be thinking "I'm going to make it over this obstacle the quickest, easiest way possible"? The winch may not cost you much in points but it will cost you in time.

Whether you winch or take multiple attempts you are most likely still going to be beat by the guy who walks it in one attempt because he is a better driver or has a better rig; so strive to be the guy who walks it. Not punish the guys who struggle.

That's my take on it, for what it's worth.

Yea but time only comes into play when you have a tie for points. If you take a bunch of reverses 3 or points to drive something and another guy just winches it for 1 point he beats you. Most of us run these courses in 3-5 minutes and never dnf on time so the amount of time winching takes really doesn't matter if you have a good winch. Our runs are scored on points.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by skid

Because it's a competition. I see it as just another avenue of it. Instead of your rig versus the course, now it's you versus another person.

Kinda brings it back to trying to please everyone, which doesn't happen becuase there is too many different views.

If your goal is to win the competition you need to not think "winching is for sissies" or "4ws is for cheaters". You need to use all the tools at your disposal to finish the course quickly and cleanly.

If you are talking about having fun then who really cares what the points are.

[DORK VADER]

Really there should be no points taken for reversing a 6 to 10 lb rig and if the lines are hard enough to require a winch, it should be considered part of the challenge of that gate. At least in class 1 & 2.. seems a bit more realistic.

Rules seem more set up like 2.2 pro & sport comp.

No matter what, its gonna be fun.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by edge540

Yea but time only comes into play when you have a tie for points. If you take a bunch of reverses 3 or points to drive something and another guy just winches it for 1 point he beats you. Most of us run these courses in 3-5 minutes and never dnf on time so the amount of time winching takes really doesn't matter if you have a good winch. Our runs are scored on points.

And the guy who drove it on one shot beat both of you. So you are worrying about 2nd place either way.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by TURTLE

Yep I agree as well, doesn't make that much sense.

You agree with what or who.




I agree with Grizzly 100 % on his last post. I say last 3 post, because I have not agreeded with him before.

[skid]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

agreeded

Sorry, but I actually had to look that up.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agreeded


Here comes the AmTrak

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I agree with Grizzly 100 % on his last post. I say last 3 post, because I have not agreeded with him before.

If Ricky agrees with me there must not be another reasonable side.

[skid]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

If Ricky agrees with me there must not be another reasonable side.

Back to the root question, do you believe winching should be equal to a reverse?

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

You agree with what or who.

Since everyone ahead of me said the same thing in relation to winching being 3 points, that is probably what I agree with.

[Krawler Konceptz]

A thought, what if you get one free reverse per section. So when you pass through a gate you'll get one free reverse till you go through the next gate. then you'll get another. maybe this would work when the rules are looked at next time.........and winching is just cool and scale

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Krawler Konceptz

A thought, what if you get one free reverse per section. So when you pass through a gate you'll get one free reverse till you go through the next gate. then you'll get another. maybe this would work when the rules are looked at next time.........and winching is just cool and scale

That's how it used to be but people voted to change it.