Brushed Motor Bashing

[Rekreant]

Is there a brushed motor that is faster / stronger than a titan 12t for bashing in a 2wd Traxxas Slash?

[durok]

OK, even though this is a Rock Crawler website, I'll bite - What ESC are you using? And, what battery?

That will determine to a certain degree how hot of a motor you can run in your Slash.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by durok

OK, even though this is a Rock Crawler website, I'll bite - What ESC are you using? And, what battery?

That will determine to a certain degree how hot of a motor you can run in your Slash.

Its the xl-5, with 2s lipo. Im building a second slash out of all the parts I upgraded lol. Thanks for biting.

[TheLetterJ]

I'm not the best with technical explanations, and I tend to ramble on, but here it goes... Yes, there are better/faster brushed motors that you could install, but for general bashing/higher speed use, you're going to get A LOT more bang for the buck going with a no-name brushless setup (if low-buck, with a noticeable increase in performance, is the name of the game.)

A nice brushed motor with better brushes, magnets, bearings, etc is going to set you back +/-$50. I know there are plenty of cheaper sealed can replacements, and even cheap rebuildable motors, but generally you won't get any better performance out of them. A high end motor should give a noticeable increase in performance, but not Earth shattering power. To get the most out of said motor, you'll probably want to ditch the XL5 anyway, looking at a minimum of $40 there, and you could definitely end up spending more if you wanted to run greater than 3s. All in, I'd imagine you'd still be in the range of 200watts of power, I believe the Titan 12t is closer to 120w.

For $35, you can buy a 45 or 60 amp, 3s capable brushless esc, and a 540 sized (also commonly called 3650, which is 36mm diameter by 50mm length) brushless motor in your desired kv. A cheap combo like that is advertised around 800w-1000w, which sounds like wishfull thinking to me, but even if it made 1/2 of that, it would still be double the power of a nice brushed setup.

Something like this: https://m.ebay.com/itm/GoolRC-F540-3...MAAOSwgBNapfw- would be a decent example of a cheap brushless system that would be a huge jump in performance over the stock Traxxas XL5/Titan 12t for very little money. A motor like that bolts right in, the 1/8" shaft would allow you to use your current pinions, and 3500-4000kv is in the ballpark for all around use in a Slash on 2-3s. Unless you are dead set on staying brushed, I think you'd be happier going brushless, even a bottom-of-the-barrell brushless system, vs. staying brushed. I say that based on your application, since uber smooth low speed throttle control isn't really an issue.

[Steve g]

The letter j is spot on. I recently changed from brushed to a cheap goolrc combo too. Played around with different brushed motors, wasted time and money. You won't regret it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by TheLetterJ

I'm not the best with technical explanations, and I tend to ramble on, but here it goes... Yes, there are better/faster brushed motors that you could install, but for general bashing/higher speed use, you're going to get A LOT more bang for the buck going with a no-name brushless setup (if low-buck, with a noticeable increase in performance, is the name of the game.)

A nice brushed motor with better brushes, magnets, bearings, etc is going to set you back +/-$50. I know there are plenty of cheaper sealed can replacements, and even cheap rebuildable motors, but generally you won't get any better performance out of them. A high end motor should give a noticeable increase in performance, but not Earth shattering power. To get the most out of said motor, you'll probably want to ditch the XL5 anyway, looking at a minimum of $40 there, and you could definitely end up spending more if you wanted to run greater than 3s. All in, I'd imagine you'd still be in the range of 200watts of power, I believe the Titan 12t is closer to 120w.

For $35, you can buy a 45 or 60 amp, 3s capable brushless esc, and a 540 sized (also commonly called 3650, which is 36mm diameter by 50mm length) brushless motor in your desired kv. A cheap combo like that is advertised around 800w-1000w, which sounds like wishfull thinking to me, but even if it made 1/2 of that, it would still be double the power of a nice brushed setup.

Something like this: https://m.ebay.com/itm/GoolRC-F540-3...MAAOSwgBNapfw- would be a decent example of a cheap brushless system that would be a huge jump in performance over the stock Traxxas XL5/Titan 12t for very little money. A motor like that bolts right in, the 1/8" shaft would allow you to use your current pinions, and 3500-4000kv is in the ballpark for all around use in a Slash on 2-3s. Unless you are dead set on staying brushed, I think you'd be happier going brushless, even a bottom-of-the-barrell brushless system, vs. staying brushed. I say that based on your application, since uber smooth low speed throttle control isn't really an issue.

Wow I didn’t know there were brushless combos for that cheap!

[Rekreant]

Im gonna order that one, but how are they so cheap comnpared to the big name systems? Do they overheat easily or something?

[Ninomaniac]

They're not as smooth and/or reliable and they don't charge for the brand name. But they do work. Watch your temperatures, though.
Hobbyking also has some nice waterproof combos that don't break the bank. You can also get a cheaper chinese motor and pair it with a Hobbywing ESC (the waterproof 60A one).

I also tried out various brushed stuff in my 2wd SC, and although a good motor can be plenty fast, it will not last long. A brushless set is more or less forever.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Ninomaniac

They're not as smooth and/or reliable and they don't charge for the brand name. But they do work. Watch your temperatures, though.
Hobbyking also has some nice waterproof combos that don't break the bank. You can also get a cheaper chinese motor and pair it with a Hobbywing ESC (the waterproof 60A one).

I also tried out various brushed stuff in my 2wd SC, and although a good motor can be plenty fast, it will not last long. A brushless set is more or less forever.

Good to know. I was gonna try a 30$ or so brushed motor but that goolrc one is the same cost for brushless! Thats super affordable and worth the effort even if it eventually fries. Can always gear down if temps are too high anyway.

[Hydrocarbon92]

Don't waste time on those ultra-cheap ESC's. They also burn up quite frequently because the ESC's are over-rated even for the smaller motor. That's actually a 28mm motor in a finned case so they can call it a 36mm.

If you really want to go fast on the cheap & avoid burn-ups, get a goolrc 3650 4-pole motor and a hobbywing 10bl60 esc. The 10bl60 is only $38 atm, and one of those is cheaper than 2 burnt cheapies.

If you want insane speeds get a 3660, 3670, or 3674 motor & 8bl150. I use a $25 3674 in my boat and it's been great, and I recently got a 3670 & 8bl150 to put in my Exo. The only down side is their bearings usually aren't stainless, so either keep it dry/lubed or spend $5-10 to fix.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Hydrocarbon92

Don't waste time on those ultra-cheap ESC's. They also burn up quite frequently because the ESC's are over-rated even for the smaller motor. That's actually a 28mm motor in a finned case so they can call it a 36mm.

If you really want to go fast on the cheap & avoid burn-ups, get a goolrc 3650 4-pole motor and a hobbywing 10bl60 esc. The 10bl60 is only $38 atm, and one of those is cheaper than 2 burnt cheapies.

If you want insane speeds get a 3660, 3670, or 3674 motor & 8bl150. I use a $25 3674 in my boat and it's been great, and I recently got a 3670 & 8bl150 to put in my Exo. The only down side is their bearings usually aren't stainless, so either keep it dry/lubed or spend $5-10 to fix.

yeah that doesnt make much sense. At that price for 10$ more I could just get a castle SCT combo and know i got quality.

[Rekreant]

The point was that I want it to be a tad faster without spending much cash. The GoolRC setup does that. If it fries / catches on fire I dont really care, Im literally building it out of the parts I replaced with upgrades. This project is a second slash im building from that.

[sherbs]

Originally Posted by Steve g

The letter j is spot on. I recently changed from brushed to a cheap goolrc combo too. Played around with different brushed motors, wasted time and money. You won't regret it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I purchased a Goolrc combo for a Slash, bashed it for 2 seasons and is still going. For a inexpensive throw away set up I have no complaints.

[Steve g]

I've read about them catching fire (60a goolrc esc), and 1 guy said it was the capacitors. So I soldered on 2 470uf caps on the esc to hopefully help. Might be worth it to do yourself too. Will it stop it from self destruction? Can't say for sure, but better then doing nothing. I also got a fan for the motor too. My esc never gets hot, but my motor will when I'm in a field of tall grass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Rekreant]

Sounds like the same issue we have with 3d printer manufacturers, using crappy capacitors that explode and catch fire lol. Ill have a look into it, I wonder if its only an issue for 3s and higher though. I only run 2s for the near future. I have 4 2s batteries so I am hesitant to go up to 3s and end up not wanting to use my 2s's anymore lol!

[TheLetterJ]

I do agree with what many have said about the cheapo stuff, but you can find yourself saying "for just a little more $$, I could get...." and incrementally work your way up until you find yourself looking at $200 power systems for a $100 car, which is why I recommended a low-end brushless. I have found my happy medium to be a 4 pole, 3656 (or bigger, like the 3665 I've got coming for one of my Slash's) which really brings the temps down vs a 3650, and a larger than necessary/mid level ESC like my 120a Hobbywing SC8 (which is programmable, has a reasonable BEC, and happily runs 4s), but even that comes in around $80. I'd still much rather have a no name brushless in my Slash than have mediocre power and relatively frequent motor replacement of a brushed system of the same price point. If you shop around, you can find better motors and esc's than what I posted previously, for about the same price, I litterally selected "3650 brushless motor esc" with the lowest price + shipping from the USA to get that result, nothing particularly special about it. They're so cheap that you can just change the whole motor (good excuse to experiment with different sizes/kv's) when they're due for bearings, which usually last me about a year of regular (dry) use.

The crawlers are COMPLETELY different in that I'd much rather have a GOOD brushed system than even a mid level sensored brushless... In that application I can truly appreciate the linearity of a high end sensored brushless, but don't need the power so I get just as smooth with a $75 brushed combo. I think you've probably got enough options in front of you now to make a choice you won't regret!

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by TheLetterJ

I do agree with what many have said about the cheapo stuff, but you can find yourself saying "for just a little more $$, I could get...." and incrementally work your way up until you find yourself looking at $200 power systems for a $100 car, which is why I recommended a low-end brushless. I have found my happy medium to be a 4 pole, 3656 (or bigger, like the 3665 I've got coming for one of my Slash's) which really brings the temps down vs a 3650, and a larger than necessary/mid level ESC like my 120a Hobbywing SC8 (which is programmable, has a reasonable BEC, and happily runs 4s), but even that comes in around $80. I'd still much rather have a no name brushless in my Slash than have mediocre power and relatively frequent motor replacement of a brushed system of the same price point. If you shop around, you can find better motors and esc's than what I posted previously, for about the same price, I litterally selected "3650 brushless motor esc" with the lowest price + shipping from the USA to get that result, nothing particularly special about it. They're so cheap that you can just change the whole motor (good excuse to experiment with different sizes/kv's) when they're due for bearings, which usually last me about a year of regular (dry) use.

The crawlers are COMPLETELY different in that I'd much rather have a GOOD brushed system than even a mid level sensored brushless... In that application I can truly appreciate the linearity of a high end sensored brushless, but don't need the power so I get just as smooth with a $75 brushed combo. I think you've probably got enough options in front of you now to make a choice you won't regret!

Yeah for crawling I run Holmes Hobbies motors. I ordered the one you linked me for the slash, thanks for the knowledge. I didnt know they could be so affordable.