550 12t 5-slot motors: Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport vs. Surpass Hobby

[donaldsneffe]

Hey guys,
Made some tests and measurements with 550 brushed 5-slot crawler motors during the last months and thought, some of you could be interested in the results. I did also make and upload two videos about those tests, the first one turned out far too long (2 ½ hrs), so I cut a short version (30 min); you’ll find the links to the videos at the end of this posting.

Some words first: I know the tests wont withstand scientific standards, I know setup and equipment are not professional, I know force should be given in Newton and not in kilogram (but everyone understands kilogram ;) ), etc. etc. – but this is a hobby forum with hobby people and my posting is not a scientific publication. I find the results interesting, and I guess they could also help other hobbyists to choose their budget motor.

I used a Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 12t and a Surpass Hobby 550 Crawler Motor 12t, both 5-slot motors.

Holmes Hobbies website says 12t 550 5-slot motors are comparable to ca. 30t 540 3-slot motors in speed, and since I also had two new ones of those here, I included a Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 27t and a supercheap 35t 540 China motor (I had paid only about 8 bucks for this motor incl. shipment some time ago).

For the driving tests I used a Reely Free Men Kit chassis (similar to SCX10 2, mega-super popular here, not known in America or Asia) with stock 13t pinion, a Hobbywing Quicrun 1080 ESC, cheap China metal beadlocks and tires and a 5000 mAh 2s Lipo. I put lead weight to the chassis, so the overall weight (incl. battery) was about 3.4 kg, an “average scale crawler”.

All four motors tested were brand new, never had run outside and had been broken in for about 10 min at 2 V; equipped with AWG 14 wires and 4 mm gold plated plugs.

At the time I bought the 550 motors both were 19.99 US$.
However, I paid 15.99 for the Surpass incl. shipment, using some BG points, and 24.50 for the Holmes with shipment from the US to Europe. But this price difference is not relevant, and also strongly depending on where you live. Nevertheless, the Surpass motor is much easier available for people outside the US than the Holmes motors (Banggood, Ali, Ebay, …), and the Holmes motors are often out of stock.

The Surpass motor comes well packed in a box and with foam, and with 14 AWG wires and gold plated plugs (unfortunately 3.5 mm and not 4 mm – I changed to 4 mm because all my “larger cars” ESCs and motors do have 4 mm plugs).

The Holmes Hobbies motor comes packed only in a simple plastic bag. In my motor the “black” soldering tab was bent 90° outwards. No big deal, I thought it was damaged during transport. But later I bought two more Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport (540), and those two motors also arrived with 90° bent “black” tab, but inwards. The “red” tab was totally fine in all motors. So maybe this is on purpose, or simply by chance?

The Surpass motor comes with two ball bearings, while the Holmes motor comes with one bearing and one bushing.

The Holmes motor does have a fan inside, the Surpass motor not.

The shafts of the two China motors are 2 mm longer than the shafts of the Holmes Hobbies motors. For my Reely Free Men pinion (and in the chassis) the Holmes shafts are more than 2 mm too short. That’s not a big deal, and I know that the China motor shafts are too long for some other models.

Weight of both motors is on spot, 215 g, as specifications say.

All in all the Surpass motor looks “shinier” and better built than the Holmes motor (but this is only the look).

The Surpass 550 is rebuildable, and brushes can be changed. The Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport is a sealed can motor, so one cannot take a look inside (by simply opening some screws).

Timing can be changed in the Surpass motor, not in the Holmes motor.

Of course I took a look inside the Surpass motor, … 2 magnets, some blue trim weight, … I am not a specialist and not the person to judge the inside build quality.



Tests und measurements:

Timing:
First I checked timing of both motors, both should come with timing 0°.
Therefore I checked the amp-draw on a given voltage in forward and reverse direction, and I checked the rpms in both directions on a given voltage with a 0° propeller (foam sanding stick) and an optical heli-tacho.

Results:
The Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 came with timing 0 spot on, perfect. But in the Surpass 550 motor timing was extremely retarded, nevertheless the scale on the motor showed 0°. I had to put timing on 7° (scale on motor bell) to get 0° timing. After this I disassembled the Surpass motor, before I had marked the sweet spot (0 timing) on bell and endcap. After reassembling the motor and turning the endcap to the “sweet spot”, timing again was retarded. Finally I had to put the motor to 9° (scale) to get a timing of 0 in the Surpass motor.


No Load Amp-draw:

I measured the Amp-draw of the motors on the bench from 1 V – 13 V with a lab power supply.

Here the results of all four motors:



Results:
The Surpass motor drew a lot more ampere than the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550, but also the Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 drew a high amp, the cheap China 540 35t drew least.

The Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster ran much calmer than the Surpass 550 motor. I did not have to fix the motor during the measurements on the work bench. The Surpass 550 motor showed a lot more vibrations, I had to fix it during measurements in higher voltages.

However, the amp-draw of the Surpass 550 motor was much more constant than the amp-draw of the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport. In the Holmes Crawlmaster the display with Ampere never really settled down, there was always a slight up and down.


Ampere, rpm, temperature, max Voltage under load:
I measured Ampere and rpm with 0° propeller with (full) 2s and 3s Lipo batteries, at voltages from 1 V up to the maximum voltage the motor received at 2s and 3s.

Therefore I used a Hobbywing 1080 ESC and a servo-tester for regulation. I measured the Amp-draw between battery and ESC with an old Hobbyking Wattmeter, the voltage directly at the motor with a multimeter and rpm with an optical helicopter tachometer.

After testing I checked the temperature of both 550 motors with an IR-thermometer.

Here the results of the Holmes Crawlmaster Sport 550 (red/orange) and the Surpass 550 (blue) in a graph, with 2s and 3s Lipos. Right y-axis and dotted lines show the Ampere, left y-axis and full line the rpm at voltage (x-axis).




And here the results of all four motors tested, 2s, 3s, rpm, ampere:




Noticeable:
None of the motors received the voltage of a full 2s or 3s Lipo battery, 8.4 V or 12.6 V; maximum was about 7 V at 2s and about 10 V at 3s.
Sometimes the Hobbywing 1080 ESC shut off during those tests and then ran in a kind of “safety mode” (weaker than normal). Then I had to switch off the ESC and switch it on again, and everything was ok again.
All motors drew on same voltage more ampere with the 2s Lipo than they did with the 3s Lipo, and rpm was higher. I guess, this is because I used a rather old 1500 mAh 3s 30c Lipo for those measurements, and a rather new 25-30c 4000 mAh 2s Lipo. Not only c-rating, but also capacity will affect the power of a Lipo. Maybe the results would have been different, if I had used a small 60 – 120c 3s Lipo or a larger 3s Lipo.
The Holmes Crawlmaster Sport 550 always drew fewer amperes than the Surpass 550 motor at the same voltage and additionally ran on higher rpm.
The Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 27t drew a lot of amps, but did not (as I would have expected) show higher rpm than the other motors.
Positive surprise: The supercheap China 540 35t motor.

Temperature: After those tests the Surpass 550 motor was much hotter than the Holmes Hobbies 550 Crawlmaster Sport motor. The Surpass showed temperatures in the 60 degrees, maximum 71° C, while the Holmes stayed cool in the forties, maximum 49° C.



Pull force:
I made a simple winch and connected it to a luggage-scale. The motor was connected to the winch by a kardan-joint, “direct drive”.

I measured the pull force (in kg, not N ) of all four motors with 2s and 3s Lipos. Therefore I used the Hobbywing 1080 and the servotester for control.
I tested all four motors 12 times, 6 times with a 2s Lipo (3 times with a 4000 mAh Lipo and 3 times with a 5000 mAh Lipo) and 6 times with a 3s Lipo (3 times with a 1500 mAh Lipo and 3 times with a 3000 mAh Lipo).

All motors but the Surpass motor showed smoke signs at times, but not on each measurement; however, this seemed not to affect their performance. But after those tests the Surpass 550 motor, which showed no smoke, again was much hotter than the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster 550.

Here are the results shown in a graph:
Left y-axis pull-force in kg, right y-axis amp-draw. Each motor in a different colour, the left bars show the pull-force on 2s and on 3s, the right bars (black outline) the amp-draw on 2s and on 3s. Each bar shows the mean of the 6 measurements, error bar shows standard error, X shows the single highest value measured.




Noticeable:
The Holmes Crawlmaster Sport 550 was much stronger than the Surpass 550 5-slot motor, however, amp-draw was not higher but similar.
The Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 was by far the strongest motor in those tests.
Highest „single pull“ by the Holmes Crawlmaster 550 in a 2s measurement (not 3s).
The Holmes Trailmaster Sport 540 pulled more kg on 2s than on 3s, but drew more amperes on 3s and showed the highest single value amp-draw of all motors tested.
The supercheap China 540 35t motor again did surprisingly well.
There is a small downside in those pull-tests:
Probably I should have let cool down the motors totally after each test, what I did not do. This seemed not to be a problem for 3 of the 4 motors tested, but the Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 seemed to get weaker by time (but drew more amperes).


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[donaldsneffe]

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Response characteristic, startup-performance:

Therefore I tested the motors in the chassis with Hobbywing 1080 set to maximal values ( 4 Init. Start Force 9 = 16%, 5 Max. Forw. Force 4 = 100%, 9 Drag Brake 9 = 100%, 10 Drag Brake Rate Level 9, 11 Neutral Range 1 = 0,02 ms, 12 Start Mode/Punch Level 9); tested with 2s 5000 mAh Lipo, 3.4 kg total weight, Flysky Noble radio.

I counted how many trim-steps the car needed to start and roll with the different motors, and the steps till it stopped again after rolling.
I did this on a flat surface and on a 45° steep incline (tire grip no problem), additionally I counted the trim steps needed to go over a small step (hill).
Here the results presented in a table; Flysky Noble trim works on 2-number steps (2, 4, 6, …), therefore no uneven numbers. I tested several times, but on flat surface the results were always (!) exactly the same, in the other tests only partly – then the table shows several values:




To my surprise in those tests the Surpass 550 motor clearly won against the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550.
On flat surface the Holmes Crawlmaster Sport was not better than the 540 3-slot motors, but on 45° it was clearly better.


Drag Brake:

I checked drag brake force of the motors on 45° (tire grip did not have any effect). I tested with motor wires disconnected and shortcut (max. drag brake force the motor can deliver) and with ESC (100% drag brake on HW 1080).

3-slot motors have higher drag brake than 5-slot motors, and so the 540 35t China motor clearly won this contest. With this motor the truck stood still on 45°, with disconnected shortcut wires and with Hobbywing 1080 ESC, and it stopped on the incline after running.
Second was the Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540. With shortcut motor-wires it stood still on 45°, but after a slight push it rolled down. It did not stand still with ESC, but rolled down slowly.
Both 550 5-slot motors could not stop the 3.4 kg truck on the 45° hillside, neither with shortcut motor-wires, nor with ESC. However, the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 showed a much stronger drag brake force than the Surpass 550, the Holmes rolled down much slower than the Surpass.

Order drag brake force:
1. Cina 540 35t
2. Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 27t
3. Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 12t
4. Surpass Hobby 550 12t


Slow speed drivability, performance on hillside:

That’s rather subjective perception, you can see this in the videos. I found the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 550 12t ran clearly smoother than the Surpass Hobby 550 12t, the 540 35t China motor was much smoother than the 540 27t Holmes Trailmaster Sport; 550 motors were better than 540 motors.




Final score:




Of course this is only my personal opinion, and an n of 1 for each motor type does not allow well-founded statements.

Point 3 “build quality” is debatable; it is not (easily) possible to take a look inside the Holmes Crawlmaster Sport motor.

But if it is only in driving performance, it is not difficult to find the winner.

Big positive surprise in my tests was the supercheap 8 bucks China 540 35t motor, and the Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 540 27t was a bit disappointing.




I filmed the tests and made a Youtube video. Unfortunately the first version turned out far too long, so a made a further short version and uploaded both.
½ hrs short version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5xvOmDIV0g&t=25s


2 ½ hrs long version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bpbbBnvEqg&t=2347s





Since there are also a lot of budget 540 5-slot crawler motors, I also bought six of those, a Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 540 16t, a Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Sport 540 20t, two Surpass Hobby 540 5-slot Crawler motors with 16t and 20t, and two of the brand new (and more expensive) Rocket 540 Plus (Surpass Plus) 5-slot 540 Crawler motors with 16t und 20t. Since I like bench-testing, I will also test those motors in a similar way and then present the results here. But this can take some time ;)



Walter

[Jboucher]

The surpass is a rebuidable motor therefore you need to compare it to the Holmes 550 rebuidable too.
It's the crawlmaster expert, not the sport which is a sealed can.

Of course Holmes is gonna lose on the pricing, chinese factories can manufacture at such low cost nobody can compete.

Redo the test with the right motor category from Holmes and exclude the price to remove the unfair Chinese costs.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[themountain]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

Redo the test with the right motor category from Holmes and exclude the price to remove the unfair Chinese costs.

Actually thats not necessary...you have to compare the price point.
Where do you think HH crawlmaster sport motors are made , hmm??

[donaldsneffe]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

The surpass is a rebuidable motor therefore you need to compare it to the Holmes 550 rebuidable too.
It's the crawlmaster expert, not the sport which is a sealed can.

Of course Holmes is gonna lose on the pricing, chinese factories can manufacture at such low cost nobody can compete.

Redo the test with the right motor category from Holmes and exclude the price to remove the unfair Chinese costs.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Why should I do this test again?
The Holmes motor has clearly won this comparison.

And the price of the motors was the same (19.99)

I guess you did not read my postings and results ...

What's up with you guy?????

[Xx Losungen xX]

No motor is made outside of child labour for $20, they cost $2 at most to manufacture.

Hell half this crap claiming to be made in North America are merely designed or assembled here.

If the pricing seems unfair for certain items it's because you're paying for the middleman to make his buck too, not just the children overseas.

I for one salute those hard working toddlers, sure makes my dollar go far!

[donaldsneffe]

Edit - because post was maybe harsh.
I do not want to be impolite and do have many American friends who are very nice and open minded guys.


This discussion is going in a very wrong direction.
This is not an America vs. China thread, all four motors tested are made in China, as is nearly everything in RC Hobby.

I highly respect the Holmes Hobbies motors of higher quality and more expensive price, which are truly made in US.

But my tests were made with two very popular 5-slot crawler motors, both the same price, both not made in US. The qualities of those motors should be topic of the discussion, and not stupid politics and nationalism.

[Xx Losungen xX]

I'm in North America and don't care about it lol.

I don't live in some fantasy world that ignores the fact people don't want to pay for stuff made here, just complain about it.

I also wonder if those people realize China makes cheap crap because WE all demand it over here lol.

Anyways, good info on the motors OP! Don't worry about the China vs US comparison, it's the same crap.

[Chris-NL]

Originally Posted by donaldsneffe

Hey guys,
Made some tests and measurements with 550 brushed 5-slot crawler motors during the last months and thought, some of you could be interested in the results. I did also make and upload two videos about those tests, the first one turned out far too long (2 ½ hrs), so I cut a short version (30 min); you’ll find the links to the videos at the end of this posting.....
...

Thanks! Excellent post, much appreciated... must have taken a lot of time. Looking forward to the next set of test results

PS. Never mind the Americans, I love the country and all the Americans I’ve met over the years but if you choose Trump to be your leader you can’t be taken serious anymore (pun intended)

[HugoBiermann]

Thanks! This will help a lot of us.

I have said the same as you before. Why suffer and pay more than you have to for a Holmes motor outside the states. I run China motors and they work well for what I need them to do. In local currency I can land a Surpass at my door for R350. A budget Holmes will be around R600, if not more. It doesn’t even help putting one on back order at a local shop. They either don’t arrive or get sold before you get to the shop.

For the rest of the continent this is a perfect comparison. This is what a lot of us will buy. Surpass motors are everywhere over here. 0 Failures.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smonkman]

Where were the Holmes motors purchased from? I may be wrong but his motors don’t use bushings only bearings. There are a lot of counterfeit Holmes out there.

[durok]

Originally Posted by Smonkman

Where were the Holmes motors purchased from? I may be wrong but his motors don’t use bushings only bearings. There are a lot of counterfeit Holmes out there.

The Sport series DO run a single bushing as well as a bearing...

Taken from his site:

ball bearing on output
bronze bushing on end bell

The endbell side is typically exposed to more grit during offroading, I imagine that was his thinking there. As they are sealed endbell, you are not able to service or rebuild the motor, making a bushing a good choice for that location.

I appreciate the time and detail spent on this testing as well, although I only have Holmes motors in my vehicles (well, my Enduro is currently still running its stock Radon 15t 540 5-slot for now, although a swap is eminent...).

[donaldsneffe]

Originally Posted by Smonkman

Where were the Holmes motors purchased from?

From Amainhobbies in the USA.
They do have awsome shipment costs from US to EU for small things. Shipping those motors within my small country Austria will be more expensive than shipping costs Amain charges from US to EU.

However, it only makes sense to buy cheap things less than 22 € there, otherwise tax will make those purchases very expensive (13 € handling fee plus taxes).
I bought 4 Holmes motors from Amain so far (and quite a couple of other things), but each motor was one single order, otherwise uneconomic.

[Ross71]

It will be worth trying the UK distributor if you are in europe to keep the postage cost down.
https://www.red-winches.com/product-...olmes-hobbies/

[Inspector86]

Please resize your graphics so they comply with RCC guidelines.

[themountain]

Originally Posted by Ross71

It will be worth trying the UK distributor if you are in europe to keep the postage cost down.
https://www.red-winches.com/product-...olmes-hobbies/

lol...not worth it ...a crawlmaster 12T would be 43 pounds to send it to me to Spain Probably cheaper to get it directly from Holmes.

[donaldsneffe]

Originally Posted by Inspector86

Please resize your graphics so they comply with RCC guidelines.

How do I do this?
What are the guidelines?
I cannot upload pictures here. I have to use external links (the only forum I know in 2020).

All pictures linked are 1920 x 1080 in the original upload - in post 1 and post 2.
I do not know why graphics in post 1 are huge, and in post 2 normal.

[HumboldtEF]

You can often use options on image hosting sites to resize photos or something like MS paint.

The limit is 1200 x 1200

[donaldsneffe]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

You can often use options on image hosting sites to resize photos or something like MS paint.

The limit is 1200 x 1200

I do not use image hosting sites for quite a long time anymore, and I will not use those again.

Remember the Photo Bucket desaster?

Unfortunately RCC seems to be the only forum where it is not possible to upload photos.
So I use photos uploaded on Rockcrawler.de or rcgroups.com here.
In those forums the pictures are automatically resized and people will complain sometimes, if you upload small pictures, because they want to be able to enlarge them (by clicking).

But what I do not understand:
Pictures of posting 1 and posing 2 are exactly the same size and format, they are linked from the same forum posting, where they are displayed in the same size.
But hier on RCC the pics of posting 1 are huge, while the pics of posting 2 are small size.

Walter

[Xx Losungen xX]

Tapatalk is free and can use it to post images.