10-07-2021, 12:13 PM | #1 |
Newbie Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Flagstaff
Posts: 32
| AR44 axles
Hey all, I have gradually upgraded my Element Enduro axles with brass link mounts, aluminum C-hubs, and brass knuckles. I think I am beginning to understand torque twist, as the other day when climbing a very steep sandstone slab one of my front wheels was coming up off the ground. I have read that the high pinion design of the AR44 axles can help combat this, but I don't really want to start over with adding weight to new axles (there has to be a limit somewhere on spending money on parts only to put them away in the spares box). My question is if anybody knows if the link mounts, C-hubs, and knuckles are cross-compatible between the Enduro and AR44 axles? Thanks, EB |
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10-07-2021, 12:50 PM | #2 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Erie
Posts: 547
| Re: AR44 axles
I’m not any type of mechanical engineer, but my UMG10 with AR44 high pinion axles has noticeably more torque twist than my Element RC Gatekeeper. I have heard arguments claiming otherwise but never heard anything convincing. Portal axles reduce torque twist.
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10-07-2021, 01:02 PM | #3 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Douglassville, PA
Posts: 4,227
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
The "high pinion" on the AR44 is more moving the drive shaft up higher for more clearance. It has a negligible effect on TT - I'm not clear why this myth is roaming the forums. Link/shock tuning has a far greater effect, and the Enduro is well known for it's super soft suspension which can exaggerate TT. Last edited by OSRC; 10-07-2021 at 01:09 PM. | |
10-07-2021, 01:16 PM | #4 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles
I have low pinion on an a couple old axials and some Enduro axles on a comp build and they have more TT than the AR44s. You can set it so it is less noticeable but if you have a fast enough buggy or can tune your RC to climb steep you will notice. The Enduro axles will seem lighter and more responsive but in the right/wrong situation they will have more torque twist. I tiwll get over mild obstacles quicker but when it gets steep the front end (esp front passenger tire) will lift easier. My question to those that don't agree, Did you not notice the difference when you changed from your Enduro Axles to AR44s? Last edited by MOguy; 10-07-2021 at 01:22 PM. |
10-07-2021, 01:18 PM | #5 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
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10-07-2021, 01:20 PM | #6 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Swap axles in your gate keeper. they are a direct bolt on. It shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes, if that. Then accelerate hard and climb something steep. Watch you front passenger tire.
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10-07-2021, 02:59 PM | #7 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
MOguy this isnt the first time you've falsely claimed the pinion location effects torque twist. Its all in the gearing not gear placement. Have a look through this thread here for some insight into why you may be wrong (linked to specific post): Another 4 Link Thread Last edited by HumboldtEF; 10-07-2021 at 03:02 PM. | |
10-07-2021, 08:50 PM | #8 |
Newbie Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Flagstaff
Posts: 32
| Re: AR44 axles
Ha ha OK thanks guys. Didn't mean to stir the pot but I appreciate the replies. I will stay with the Enduro axles and not overthink things, which is a real challenge for me. I may try stiffer springs, or not. I'll likely not switch to portals on this rig since I have a pretty capable TRX4 as well. That and the fact that whenever I am crawling with my wife she likes to run the Enduro since I have a Toyota body on it so I don't get to use it as much as I like... Sometimes I think I need to change things to occupy my mind and distract me from the "real" world, which I guess is the point of this endeavor. |
10-08-2021, 03:51 PM | #9 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
You can also add preload to your rear right shock and it will cover up top twist, that is what I do on my wrath 2.2 but it sucks for a crawler. Last edited by MOguy; 10-08-2021 at 03:58 PM. | |
10-08-2021, 05:12 PM | #10 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,643
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
Try stock springs in the front and the blue springs in the rear. I'm also using like 40 or 50wt oil, I forget which. Get some weight on the front axle, and whatever tires/foams that work for your location and you'll be trucking up stuff. | |
10-08-2021, 07:13 PM | #11 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
Yes, I dont know what springs he's using now, As I said "If you're using super soft springs" I suggest you try the green enduro springs in the rear MOguy, they're as soft as those get and also allow torque twist to fully compress the right rear way too easily. Stiff bad soft good is not how this works, play around with different spring rates to find a happy medium. I found the white or grey springs are good in the rear for my non IFS Enduro. Last edited by HumboldtEF; 10-08-2021 at 07:19 PM. | |
10-08-2021, 07:43 PM | #12 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
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10-08-2021, 07:55 PM | #13 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: AR44 axles Whats the shock oil weight you use? Just curious because the last set of TRX4 shocks I tried thicker oil on (maybe 45 or 35wt) but I found with the small piston size that thicker oils reacted totally different to what I'm used to. They were FAR stiffer than I had wanted. I ended up working my way down and down until I got to 15 wt. It kind of left me shocked that the piston size had that effect, that was new to me. Last edited by HumboldtEF; 10-08-2021 at 07:58 PM. |
10-08-2021, 08:00 PM | #14 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
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10-11-2021, 06:22 AM | #15 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
It took me a while to figure this out, but I still haven't learned to post videos here. I would love to send you these videos so you can see this for yourself. It would be great if you can post them too so others could see this. i would love to hear your opinion on the videos. Last edited by MOguy; 10-11-2021 at 07:50 AM. | |
10-11-2021, 06:42 PM | #16 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
Okay cool, if you want to truly compare these axles do it on 1 single rig with the only variable being the axles themselves. Make sure whatever weight 1 set of axles has in the way of C-hub or knuckles ect. the other set also has. If you're just comparing two or three different builds this will be fairly meaningless. | |
10-11-2021, 06:48 PM | #17 | |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Central Wa.
Posts: 148
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
I got caught up in the swap to 44's mindset, and have 44's on my Enduro now (I was sitting on brand new 44's). There is very little difference if any IMO. I have had the most success with TT and the chassis leaning to the right (even on flat ground) by adding preload on the stock Enduro shocks. So my opinion is to tune your shocks first, and run it lower & slightly stiffer. My Enduro w/44's lasted one battery before the infamous tic tic tic cropped up. Gotta pull it all apart again. | |
10-11-2021, 08:33 PM | #18 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
I am not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, just sharing my experience. Last edited by MOguy; 10-11-2021 at 08:37 PM. | |
10-11-2021, 09:47 PM | #19 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
I'm interested to hear your opinion. I'm only voicing the opposite opinion because you are suggesting an expensive upgrade to fix something with no evidence to say it fixes anything. I dont want anyone to end up spending money based on that. But again I do want to know what you come up with. If you have a Youtube account to watch videos you can upload to it. If you're not into having videos or a channel you could upload as a unlisted video (not private) then share the link to allow us to watch. | |
10-13-2021, 07:50 AM | #20 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Fort Leonard Wood
Posts: 868
| Re: AR44 axles Quote:
My issue with you tube is I live very rural. I have Hughes net, uploading a video isn't happening. On my way home I pass through good cell signal and could messenger somebody the videos. My work computer won't allow you tube. Last edited by MOguy; 10-13-2021 at 07:52 AM. | |
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