Survey Of "Clod" Stall For Newage Owners

[Robb]

Just reflecting back on running Clod axles, and still seeing some local guys running Clods................I am just not getting anywhere near the amount of stall that Clods seem to have in my experience.

Just seems like on a lot of Clods I have run, or seen run, it takes the minimal amount of torque to stall the rear axle, whereas on the Newage, I just don't get much. Sure, given the right situation, the rear will stall (heck, both will given the right scenario), but just no where near as much as with Clods.

Maybe it is just my electronics, or the improvements of electronics in general in the past couple of years.

Have you noticed a lack of general stall?

[JohnRobHolmes]

Smaller tires, less vehicle weight, lower effective rollout= more relative force needed for stalling. I have noticed the same thing, there isn't near as much stall on the rear as compared to a clod because the motor is the same power but the vehicle is much lighter.

[rockbound]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Smaller tires, less vehicle weight, lower effective rollout= more relative force needed for stalling. I have noticed the same thing, there isn't near as much stall on the rear as compared to a clod because the motor is the same power but the vehicle is much lighter.

exactly what i was going to say.

[Robb]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I have noticed the same thing, there isn't near as much stall on the rear as compared to a clod because the motor is the same power but the vehicle is much lighter.

I can't buy the lighter weight scenario. My Newage, with just an aluminum backbone chassis, is about 7.25 lbs, which is more than many 2.2 Clods, and considered a "pig" by 2.2 standards. Heck, I had a 2.2 Clod guy at our last local comp pick up my rig and make a comment about how heavy the thing was.

Just throwing this out there, but I am thinking it is more of a tightness of the drivetrain issue. We all know the gears are tight in the Newage, much tighter than the Clod ever was.

I finally got my Newage running with 3 position dig today (rear free), and was amazed by how much drag there was in the driveline even when freewheeling. On a level surface, the rear end wanted to brake/drag even when the motor was free to spin.

I am starting to think that "Clod Stall" truly was a Clod thing, and not an axle-mounted motor thing.

[bigflex]

from what I am seeing, it all comes from gear size. The clods have very large diameter 32p gear. The newage axles have much smaller 48p gears. It takes more power to turn the large clod gears, hence it takes less bind to stall them.

[WKKILLER]

Originally Posted by Robb

I can't buy the lighter weight scenario. My Newage, with just an aluminum backbone chassis, is about 7.25 lbs, which is more than many 2.2 Clods, and considered a "pig" by 2.2 standards. Heck, I had a 2.2 Clod guy at our last local comp pick up my rig and make a comment about how heavy the thing was.

Just throwing this out there, but I am thinking it is more of a tightness of the drivetrain issue. We all know the gears are tight in the Newage, much tighter than the Clod ever was.

I finally got my Newage running with 3 position dig today (rear free), and was amazed by how much drag there was in the driveline even when freewheeling. On a level surface, the rear end wanted to brake/drag even when the motor was free to spin.

I am starting to think that "Clod Stall" truly was a Clod thing, and not an axle-mounted motor thing.

I run a 6.5 pound Raptor2 rig with 55 turn cans and 6 tooth pinions. I still get stall in certain situtations. It probably has to do with the poor gear ratio.

[chrisjlittle]

Originally Posted by Robb

I can't buy the lighter weight scenario. My Newage, with just an aluminum backbone chassis, is about 7.25 lbs, which is more than many 2.2 Clods, and considered a "pig" by 2.2 standards. Heck, I had a 2.2 Clod guy at our last local comp pick up my rig and make a comment about how heavy the thing was.

Just throwing this out there, but I am thinking it is more of a tightness of the drivetrain issue. We all know the gears are tight in the Newage, much tighter than the Clod ever was.

I finally got my Newage running with 3 position dig today (rear free), and was amazed by how much drag there was in the driveline even when freewheeling. On a level surface, the rear end wanted to brake/drag even when the motor was free to spin.

I am starting to think that "Clod Stall" truly was a Clod thing, and not an axle-mounted motor thing.

I've also noticed that my enroute axles are extremely tight. Makes me wonder how how AX-10 guys put up with their shoddy lockers:?. Either way, I would think that more drivetrain drag would cause more stall. I still think it has to do with the relative lack of leverage standard comp 2.2 tires have on the axle. The rollout is the only thing I can conceive of that would change it.

[Udlman]

Originally Posted by bigflex

from what I am seeing, it all comes from gear size. The clods have very large diameter 32p gear. The newage axles have much smaller 48p gears. It takes more power to turn the large clod gears, hence it takes less bind to stall them.

That shouldn't make any difference, If the gears are the same size, ie, reduction stays the same, it will take the same amount of torque to turn them.

Part of the reason that we get clod stall is that we run 2 motors off one speed controller. If you ran separate controllers, I think the stall would be negligible.

I run 2 different pinions in mine, and have minimized it a little, but it is still there.


Brad.

[bigflex]

Originally Posted by Udlman

That shouldn't make any difference, If the gears are the same size, ie, reduction stays the same, it will take the same amount of torque to turn them.

Part of the reason that we get clod stall is that we run 2 motors off one speed controller. If you ran separate controllers, I think the stall would be negligible.

I run 2 different pinions in mine, and have minimized it a little, but it is still there.


Brad.

thats just it though. They are not the same size. if the gear is larger diameter it takes less force to turn it. just think of it like the pulleys on a drill press.

[LincolnBlack]

Mechanical advantage is mechanical advantage. Its not that important what the gear diameter is as what the total gear ratio is from motor to wheel. The higher the ratio (like 50:1 vs. 30:1), the easier it is for the motor to turn the wheel and the harder it is for the wheel to turn the motor.

[Udlman]

Originally Posted by bigflex

thats just it though. They are not the same size. if the gear is larger diameter it takes less force to turn it. just think of it like the pulleys on a drill press.

Ok now that I have had a look at the Newage stuff, you are trying to compare apples and bananas, they are two entirely different configurations, therefore having different gear reductions. The only thing they have in common are that the motors are on the axle's.

Ok, The stock gear ratio on the Newage is 40:1 Stock gear ratio on a clod is 30:1 . The newage ratio is higher, therefore won't stall as easy.


Brad.


Beat me to it Linc.. No go back and hide in the pit where you belong :-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P

[rn38]

Dont know if clod stall if present on 2.2 clods but the smaller diameter of the 2.2's also affect gearing.

[run2jeepn]

From what I have found out myself is. The Lower geared and more volts you run. The Less Stall you'll get. My 2.2 Clod maybe stalls every 20th time out. Has to just me the perfect spot for it to happen. Never happens on hills. Only in a bind. Which is what I like the most. Its the SLIPPER for CLODS... Kind works like a Shafty in that way. Prevents breaks. But not always. Just last yearin OK. I jammed both right side tires in a V-Noch and snapped to axles at once. No stall... Now on my super. I run the same set up and it does stall more. But The hieght and width of the Moab XL's is the doing there. Some stall is a good thing. Many have said that for years.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Udlman

The stock gear ratio on the Newage is 40:1 Stock gear ratio on a clod is 30:1 . The newage ratio is higher, therefore won't stall as easy.

We have a winner!

[run2jeepn]

Stock Clod Gear Ratio
Pinion
9T 54 : 1
8T 61 : 1
7T 70: 1
6T 81:1

[TheHeadHunter]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

From what I have found out myself is. The Lower geared and more volts you run. The Less Stall you'll get. My 2.2 Clod maybe stalls every 20th time out. Has to just me the perfect spot for it to happen. Never happens on hills. Only in a bind. Which is what I like the most. Its the SLIPPER for CLODS... Kind works like a Shafty in that way. Prevents breaks. But not always. Just last yearin OK. I jammed both right side tires in a V-Noch and snapped to axles at once. No stall... Now on my super. I run the same set up and it does stall more. But The hieght and width of the Moab XL's is the doing there. Some stall is a good thing. Many have said that for years.

exactly ...JohnRobHolmes is right since electronics are the stall reason and who could understand electronics here more than him.


who cares about stall ''I want a Berg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

Stock Clod Gear Ratio
Pinion
9T 54 : 1
8T 61 : 1
7T 70: 1
6T 81:1

R2J, Those numbers don't seem right

I found these #'s in an old JIA post.....

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

Which gear ratio do you guys think is "best" for a 55t?

Here's what each pinion gives as a drive ratio.

8T 48.89:1
9T 43.46:1
10T 39.11:1
11T 35.56:1
12T 32.59:1
13T 30.08:1
14T 27.94:1
15T 26.07:1
16T 24.44:1

Its the one I have been using for awhile now.

[FrankyRizzo]

I welcome a little bit of stall. Keeps you from flopping on your lid when approaching climbs. Nice thing about the Bergs is that they are very well geared so it is not a huge issue. I agree that the smaller wheel diameter and lighter weight rig itself makes a difference as well.

I think some other things that play into it is the Sidewinder ESC I am running as well. With its programmability you can send 100% power and the smoother stepping the power is on tap better than ever.

I am really enjoying mine but I do miss driving my shafty.

[BrandonW]

i don't have any stall on my clod

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

R2J, Those numbers don't seem right

I found these #'s in an old JIA post.....



Its the one I have been using for awhile now.

It maybe wrong. I got it from Hot-Racing's website. From there 100:1 Gear ratio Alumn Clod Gear Set.