Dlux Berg Build

[chris.martell]

Where can I get some of that putty?

[Erik D_lux]

Lots of places sell it. Search Pincar tungsten putty. I am also going to try and carry it on my site to compliment the knuckles.

TowerHobbies.com | PineCar Tungsten Putty 1 oz

[chris.martell]

Thank you. Never herd of the stuff before so good find and thanks for sharing.

[nappahdog]

hobby lobby has it Chris, or just buy it from dlux when he has it.

Erik, crazy ideas in all of your threads, Makes me want to build another super with those knuckle weights, and throw the ax10s in the trash to run the new stuff for the ar axles . I'll be ordering the sway bars soon. keep up the good work.

Funny how this hobby goes round and round as far as trends go, soon everyone will have 8 lb rigs again

[Harvo]

HeyHey ... Nice mod to make the steel ring work with the flat top knuckles. That's genius

[ubbb69]

Erik, Following along on you and Joel's quest for knuckle weight solution i have these thoughts.

Every rig is going to have its own point of deminishing returns on knuckle weights. Even to the point where 2 people build rigs with the exact same parts. One puts every thing he can on the axle and the other puts elecs in the chassie. In my line of thinking which is often skewed, and distorted. The center of gravity will be different on both those rigs. So as they tune it they use different mounts for links to get to the best set up. So there roll center, squat, anti squat are different. Each of those play a huge part in final set up.

So axle mount guy starts playing with knuckle weights. Imo if you are changing knuckle weights you need to change foams also. A good foam set up seems to have 4-6 oz of usable range. For front tires as the rear set up does not seem as important. So he adds weight and his rig starts working better. He has lowered his cog also. So at what point does the lower cog constitute a link change to correct issues that arise? Say he finds that 7oz per side is his favorite set up. I do not believe that the chassie mount guy will find the same results with that set up. Not only did he start with a higher cog but he had a different set up to begin with to compensate for higher cog.

When you pile weight on the front are you changing your foam set up? How about your link placement? At what point do you think it stops helping and starts hurting? Also the type of rock you run on how does this affect your set up? Rip rap verses smooth flowing make a difference? There are so many variables to it for a universal weight to work for every one.

I also believe that driving style plays a part in the amount of weight used. Could the amount used be more standardized by using a balance point or bias number instead of just a set weight? Problem there is you also need to know horizontal and vertical balance point. I seem to be just rambling and do not not if this post can be followed but i hope i came across somewhat clear. What would be your thoughts?

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by nappahdog

Erik, crazy ideas in all of your threads, Makes me want to build another super with those knuckle weights, and throw the ax10s in the trash to run the new stuff for the ar axles . I'll be ordering the sway bars soon. keep up the good work.

Funny how this hobby goes round and round as far as trends go, soon everyone will have 8 lb rigs again

Yeah, driving is a blast but messing with the cars to see what they can be capable of is fun too!

Originally Posted by ubbb69

Every rig is going to have its own point of deminishing returns on knuckle weights.

Yeah, I was kinda in my own zone there for a second and not looking at the big picture. I would still give the same advice for anybody local but true enough, I would probably give different advice for people in different areas. Your videos that I saw are a great example of some terrain that I would kill most or all of my knuckle weight. I have a local spot where my car does much better without the weight. Its the only spot though. So for my area, I know there are climbs that are so borderline to make anyhow with a ton of weight, I would have a hard time thinking a no knuckle weight having car could come do some of them.

Having said that, I do think that there are spots where less knuckle weight works better but I guess I just have a hard time seeing too many spots where more knuckle weight will hold me back. Even in my head thats condtradicorty but at least I understand what I mean. I will think about it and see if I can explain it better.

Originally Posted by ubbb69

So axle mount guy starts playing with knuckle weights.

I would say I totally agree with changing things along with the weights as it makes a difference. Again, another hard thing to explain for me is that I dont think I tune so much by "feel" any more. I have found too many things that "feel" good and even look good but are actually worse. I think I mostly tune my car by look and what its doing when its driving like lifting tires and so forth. If I am tuning a side hill I will see if I can do the side hill. If not, I fix the reason that side is lifting. If I tune a climb, I dont climb by feel, I go only after results. I have no idea if that makes sense to anybody. Results and "feel" can contradict each other a LOT of the time.

Originally Posted by ubbb69

When you pile weight on the front are you changing your foam set up? How about your link placement? At what point do you think it stops helping and starts hurting? Also the type of rock you run on how does this affect your set up? Rip rap verses smooth flowing make a difference? There are so many variables to it for a universal weight to work for every one.

I dont change my foam half as often as I should. I am horrible at it.

Like I said above, I dont change my link placement most of the time. I feel that I can see when it needs to be changed and I feel I know what it should "look" like.

The only time I see large amounts of knuckle weight hurting is when there are no big climbs to be done and things like getting stuck in large holes and just generally hard to get around in.

It is hard to get a universal setup. I guess I am already thinking of a way to explain what I was saying above. I cant see having a maximum amount of knuckle weight hurting me so badly that I couldnt keep up with most people. I can see no/little knuckle weight hurting somebody much worse to the point where they could not do a lot of the obstacles. I think this is the reason I just choose to go "all in" and get used to driving that weight.

This is a large conversation that I dont know if it can be carried online. I do like a good in depth conversation though as long as its not all theory that you can take to real life. Real life experience taken to theory is much more valuable IMO.

[SkaldidDog]

Well shizzy that was a lot of reading.

Thanks for the props Erik. I'm glad you're digging the weight.

My quick 0.02. Not trying to hijack this thread but posts 105 and 112 in my build show my version of what Erik is talking about. IMWAO (worthless ass) big bias works best for me. So much that my wheels (egressor's design) are required for me to meet my bias (foreward and low) requirement. That's why I don't run all this fancy wheel stuff on the market today. It all looks good but show me one that will deep throat a 2.000" OD knuckle weight. Once I settled on maximum inner volume wheels the rest was simple. Pack the weight low and wide. Gotta have both. I've only 0.020" radius between my weight and wheel and about that between the weight and wheel disk. The shape and W plug placement in my weights moved mass low. Before beveling the front and rear my weights they weighed too much, maybe 10oz ea. So I did the trim-drive-trim-drive-trim-drive cycle until I figured out that for my rig and driving style, 7.5oz per side and this low and wide, worked best for me. Once sorting this out I tuned shocks, foams, links accordingly and it's been baby tuning steps ever since. The switch to pin tires required a reasessment of my tuning but not of my weight bias. The 0.25lb diet my rig went on as part of my rear Ti axle build helped bias and didn't upset the truck at all. I was very surprised.

Thanks for letting me share your thread Erik. Hope this helps some of your customers. Great products man. Please keep it up. As soon as it warms up out there I'm coming to play with your kids and we might crawl some too.


J

[Tgreer]

The man to figure out a way to channel the inside of a wheel to allow for more knuckle weight to sit even lower down into the tire carcus area, will have a rig superior to everyone else in general! I've been on this train for a while now, glad to see other really good drivers with the same mindset!

[chris.martell]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

The man to figure out a way to channel the inside of a wheel to allow for more knuckle weight to sit even lower down into the tire carcus area, will have a rig superior to everyone else in general! I've been on this train for a while now, glad to see other really good drivers with the same mindset!

F's low cg wheels in the vendor section do just this.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by chris.martell

F's low cg wheels in the vendor section do just this.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

Yup, don't know how I missed those!

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

The man to figure out a way to channel the inside of a wheel to allow for more knuckle weight to sit even lower down into the tire carcus area, will have a rig superior to everyone else in general! I've been on this train for a while now, glad to see other really good drivers with the same mindset!

Originally Posted by chris.martell

F's low cg wheels in the vendor section do just this.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Tgreer

Yup, don't know how I missed those!

Superiority for sale in vendor section. Gotta love cool design technology.

J

[JohnRobHolmes]

I've been hearing the same sentiment from drivers, mere mumbles that nobody says too loudly. Low and wide. The point of light rigs isn't just to be really light, it is for the ability to add that weight back in the best place possible. Cool stuff to see it progress into new products.

[chris.martell]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I've been hearing the same sentiment from drivers, mere mumbles that nobody says too loudly. Low and wide. The point of light rigs isn't just to be really light, it is for the ability to add that weight back in the best place possible. Cool stuff to see it progress into new products.

Agreed

[TSK]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

The man to figure out a way to channel the inside of a wheel to allow for more knuckle weight to sit even lower down into the tire carcus area, will have a rig superior to everyone else in general! I've been on this train for a while now, glad to see other really good drivers with the same mindset!

Originally Posted by chris.martell

F's low cg wheels in the vendor section do just this.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

Technically speaking, running DE's is likely to give you the most interior room to run a high volume of KW

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by TheSCorpionKing

Technically speaking, running DE's is likely to give you the most interior room to run a high volume of KW

Yes your right, but I just feel like there is so much room in the tire carcus. I think I'm going to play around with shortcourse wheels. Cut the face off of one and put it on the back side, then cut it to the 2.2 bead line so that both sides are 2.2, but the middle is 3.


Sorry to hijack your thread dlux! Keep up the great work!

[stubs179]

Do you have any pics of the front axle from the top with the tires turned all the way to lock? Right and left? My trucks good left but to the right everything hits before I get to lock. So I am lacking the full extent of turning that way. Just wondering what yours looks like.

[stubs179]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

.

Hey man, where did you move your battery?

[Erik D_lux]

What is hitting?





With all the new steering available from the knuckles, I clearanced the servo mount a touch and also straightened out my tie rod a bit and now I get too much. I almost should have just left it. We did come up with a cool way to do steering stops though. Just cut a ring into quarters, bolt on and now you have a steering stop along with more weight. On the front, I left them in quarters and the rear I actually took them to eights.

Quarters



Eighths



Installed

[stubs179]

I see, you flipped the servo around and are running the goofy axial rod end to keep the drag link from contacting the servo arm. I am having a problem with the drag link smashing into the servo arm before the tires are all the way turned to the right. I am not sure I want to turn the servo around? And my bent tierod is hitting everywhere now that the tires turn so damn far. It worked great before.

Are you going to sell the steering stop weights? They are a great idea!