High turn vs. low turn motors for crawlin'....

[Offroader5]

For purposes of this post, everything would be in reference to a clod based crawler. So here's the question....I have seen a couple instances searching other forums where people will use a lower turn motor and gear reduction for a crawler rather than just using a higher turn motor without any reduction other than the pinion gears. (I have also seen this done on 2.2 shafty's, but for now let's just talk clod) Will you still get a nice slow crawl out of a low turn motor and reduction as you would with a high turn motor?

For example, using a 19 to 35 turn motor with some kind of gear reduction...say 3.5:1........vs. using the 55 to 75 turn motors with the only reduction coming from using a 6 or 7 tooth pinion.

Would the low turn/reduction setup still give me the controlability and low speed torque as the high turn motor....and just have the added benefit of increased wheel speed?

I realize my run times would suffer a bit going with the low turn motor option, and that I could just go brushless and call it done...but I was wondering about why there seems to be a transition into the low turn option.

Need some insight.....TIA

[Kamikaze]

Well theres alot to consider to give a good answer here. First a 19t and a 3.5 gear reduction will not give you any more wheelspeed than say a 55t and a 8tooth pinion. What it will give you is loads more torque by making it easyer on the motor to turn the wheels. BADD used to run 27t motors and a gear reduction box. It was slow but at the first sign of a bind it would snap an axle. The throttle control is awsome though. With a 55t and a 8tooth pinion the same speeds are reached but its easyer to stall the motor. Basicaly a brushed motor will stall between the 3 poles of the armature, more gear reducion means that the tire actualy has to move less to let the motor "turn over to another pole" and continue spinning and making power. Put it this way, he runs lathes now with no gear reduction and is alot happier with it. Personaly I run handwound 35t lathes and 6 tooth pinions. I have great wheels speed and tonse of controlability. As far as torque goes I am on the fence as far as clod axles can take. A 55t and 8tooth pinion on 8.4 volts is good and strong and will stall before most breakage will occure, but its all user preferance.

[Offroader5]

I was hoping you'd chime in. I knew you were running that 35t setup and I have seen copperhead in vids and like how it reacts. Is the secret more that they are hand wound or is it more the 6 tooth/35t combo?

Right now I am running 8.4v with 55t's and 8 tooth's. I'm wondering if just kicking the motor up to a 45t and the pinion down to say a 6 or 7 and add another cell to the pack....if it would be more of what I am after? Whatta ya think?

[JohnRobHolmes]

You definatly get more power when you use lower turn motors that are geared down more. The biggest drawback I have encountered is when the truck gets stalled. You cant try to gun it out because you will either break something or smoke the motor. Low wind motors heat up FAST when stalled.

[Etype R]

Silver can mabuchi all the way! Been powering my juggy for a couple years now with the aid of a gd600.

[Offroader5]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

You definatly get more power when you use lower turn motors that are geared down more. The biggest drawback I have encountered is when the truck gets stalled. You cant try to gun it out because you will either break something or smoke the motor. Low wind motors heat up FAST when stalled.

Not tooooo awfully worried about breakage. In real life I wheel a Jeep XJ with stock D30/D35 axles running 35's and have yet to break anything axle related Because of that setup, I know to take it easy in that tight spot and know how far to push it...that would carry over to the RC crawler too I think.

I will be running CVD's in the clod and I've already got the alum knuckles, strong as heck steering, and bulletproof links and ends...what do you think would be the next weeak link? Axle tubes? Inner knuckles? Gears?

[DaViolentOne]

I got stock 27 Mabuchis with 8t pinions... That gives me some decent wheelspeed and some good down low grunt for gettin' up and over a lot of obstacles... I am thinking of gettin' a pair of 35t lathes tho' for moe torque at the cost of some wheelspeed... 55's would be nice, but a bit too slow for my driving style...

"When in doubt, throttle out!!"

[Kamikaze]

I am definitly getting more torque with the hand wounds, I have a factory 35t and it stalls way easyer than mine, I get almost twice the wire in my windings as the stock integys. But a 35t with 6 tooths on 7 cells is a good combo, expecialy if you had cvd's, I still run stock shafts cause I'm cheap but I don't think that combo would phase a cvd, even with my motors. I would stay away from the <30t motors for the reason JRH stated, with 35t's it won't heat up to bad when stalled, a 19t however would smoke pretty quick. If you want send me a pm and maybe we can work out rewinding a set of motors for you.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Rewinding is fun!

I would say the weak link becomes the "diff" gear if you dont have a metal locker.

[DaViolentOne]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

I am definitly getting more torque with the hand wounds, I have a factory 35t and it stalls way easyer than mine, I get almost twice the wire in my windings as the stock integys. But a 35t with 6 tooths on 7 cells is a good combo, expecialy if you had cvd's, I still run stock shafts cause I'm cheap but I don't think that combo would phase a cvd, even with my motors. I would stay away from the <30t motors for the reason JRH stated, with 35t's it won't heat up to bad when stalled, a 19t however would smoke pretty quick. If you want send me a pm and maybe we can work out rewinding a set of motors for you.

So yer running 35 double winds? That in itself would explain the not so often stall... Running double, triple or even quadruple turns add more torque from what I remember of motor winding... Less winds = more speed, more wires run with winding = more torque... Hmmm... Any idea where I may be able to get a pair of 35t doubles?

[JohnRobHolmes]

A 35t double would act like a 35t single, but have less punch and more resistance from smaller wires. Torque would actually be a bit less from the higher resistance, speed would be about the same.

[Offroader5]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

Rewinding is fun!

I would say the weak link becomes the "diff" gear if you dont have a metal locker.

Yeah...I'm thinking of picking up all alloy gears for each case from RC4WD cause right now they are just JB locked.

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by DaViolentOne

So yer running 35 double winds? That in itself would explain the not so often stall... Running double, triple or even quadruple turns add more torque from what I remember of motor winding... Less winds = more speed, more wires run with winding = more torque... Hmmm... Any idea where I may be able to get a pair of 35t doubles?

Nope, there single winds, just thicker wires. Theres a pic in JRH motor winding thread, I'll dig it up.......

EDIT: Here it is.... winding a motor

[DaViolentOne]

Awesome... I just might have to get some 45's or 55's and re-wind them to 35 seeing as 35's are harder to find at this moment in my area...