RCCrawler Forums

BMFOTP · 04-20-2009, 09:08 PM

I have recently noted that the left rear tire on my crawler is demonstrating torque twist. The TT is most apparent when my crawler goes from forward to reverse. I have done the mirrore transmission modification to my crawler. What else is needed to diagnosis this problem and have someone give me corrective actions for my crawler. Thanks in advance for any help.:-P

ncalkrawler · 04-20-2009, 09:27 PM

here's this might help Torque twist...

paintballer9876 · 04-20-2009, 09:29 PM

Pick of the links and the crawler its self would help, my axial has 4 link fornt and rear and stiffer springs on the rear shocks, and there is almost no torque twist.

Duuuuuuuude · 04-21-2009, 05:42 PM

I get TT too when going from forward to reverse, but I don't care. I don't climb things backwards.

BMFOTP · 04-21-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

Pick of the links and the crawler its self would help, my axial has 4 link fornt and rear and stiffer springs on the rear shocks, and there is almost no torque twist.

I am working on getting some pics to post showing how my crawler is set up. Stupid camera acting up not taking good pics

BMFOTP · 04-21-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I get TT too when going from forward to reverse, but I don't care. I don't climb things backwards.

How bad is the TT your crawlers gets when going backwards? If it isnt anything for me to worry about then i can move forward with trying to upgrade my crawler. Thanks for your input.

Duuuuuuuude · 04-21-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMFOTP

How bad is the TT your crawlers gets when going backwards? If it isnt anything for me to worry about then i can move forward with trying to upgrade my crawler. Thanks for your input.

Its not terrible. With the 3000kv motor it'd pull the wheel 1" off the ground before the other one followed suit and put it into a reverse wheely, but that was only if I was hammering on it.

With the Revolver its not very noticable, though I haven't really been paying attention to how it does going backwards.

I wouldn't worry too much about how it does in reverse. You have to remember that alot of the weight is up front with very little in the back, so that will effect things. Besides, its a shafty, TT is part of the game.

legion1capone · 04-21-2009, 08:14 PM

x2 you don't climb backwards. When you are running your crawler in a comp your not mashing it from forward to reverse, you ease into it. I wouldn't worry about it, unless it really affects how your crawler crawls.

BMFOTP · 04-21-2009, 08:57 PM

Is there a point where my crawler will have mininmal or no TT? Or are shaft driven crawlers plaqued by this problem no matter what the owner does to the crawler?

Are the MOA a better choice of a crawler if I am the type of person who wants the fewest problems from a crawler? I know I will still have to build and tune and test, but overall are MOAs better than shaft driven crawlers?

I am starting to get discouraged and dont want to leave the hobby if there is a better alternative.

legion1capone · 04-21-2009, 09:19 PM

With the right modifications and suspension setup you can minimize the TT. I don't think there is any one way to completely get rid of TT in a shaft driven rig. But I have seen shaft driven trucks do some amazing things. Take a look at some of the competition videos I have posted on youtube, just search my username. Setup is key!
But yes MOA is one way of not having to worry about TT since TT is caused by the driveshafts. I wouldn't say MOA's are any better than Shaft driven rigs when it comes to a well setup comp truck after what I've seen.

HomerJ · 04-21-2009, 09:25 PM

Ah, no need to get discouraged just yet man. TT is something that every single person that has ever had a shafty on this board has dealt with. Look around for some threads on torque twist, there are tons, and start trying some of the suggestions in there. Hell, there are shafties that are still extremely competitive in comp scenes, you just have to put forth the effort to find the trade secrets

Duuuuuuuude · 04-21-2009, 10:36 PM

MOA's are in no way trouble free. Just the fact that there is almost twice the amount of electronics to deal with is enough to keep my away.

TT is a part of owning a shafty, you just need to learn how to minimize, then deal with it. Sometimes you can even use it to your advantage. Like was stated before, its all in the tuning. Its also in knowing your rig. Drive the piss out of it, tweak it a bit, then drive it some more.

soundcolor · 04-22-2009, 11:55 AM

contrary to popular belief, TT is not the devil...
However, it can rear its ugly head sometimes.

As the other guys stated, It can be minimalized. Not stopped. The best, best best thing you can do is a 4 link. Although a four link wont stop all of it. It is the single most helpfull thing you can do. After that, springs and shocks, and fine tuning. Not all four links are created equal, nor are all shocks. So knowing that, you need to find what one works best for you, and what kinda crawling you like.

Ask the guys that have the same rig as you do what they did. Thats going to be a good starting point.

treday619 · 04-22-2009, 12:57 PM

Things that can be done to minimize Torque Twist

1. 4 link front and rear
2. Use a heavier weight oil in the left rear shock
3. Use a stiffer spring in the back
4. Use the new Optional Gear sets from Axial

There is no way to completely get rid of TT in a shafty you are just trying to minimize it as much as possible. You could always look into MOA or the new Losi Comp Crawler (Worm gears do not have TT)

BMFOTP · 04-22-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerJ

Ah, no need to get discouraged just yet man. TT is something that every single person that has ever had a shafty on this board has dealt with. Look around for some threads on torque twist, there are tons, and start trying some of the suggestions in there. Hell, there are shafties that are still extremely competitive in comp scenes, you just have to put forth the effort to find the trade secrets

Unfortunately time is not a luxury I have to spend on searching for trade secrets:-(. At this point in time I want a crawler I can drive when I have some time and enjoy driving the crawler and not spend all day working on the crawler:-(.

MOAs sound like a good option and I will get one once I have banged my head against the wall for a few more weeks and waste a few more hundred dollars trying to this this shaftie to work.

BMFOTP · 04-22-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

MOA's are in no way trouble free. Just the fact that there is almost twice the amount of electronics to deal with is enough to keep my away.

TT is a part of owning a shafty, you just need to learn how to minimize, then deal with it. Sometimes you can even use it to your advantage. Like was stated before, its all in the tuning. Its also in knowing your rig. Drive the piss out of it, tweak it a bit, then drive it some more.

I think I could live with TT if I knew what was normal and what was extreme and what was minimal. Unfortunately no one where I live has a crawler and time to go to comps is limited. I guess what I am saying is if I knew I was headed in the right direction then I would have something to keep me motivated.

I will keep going and spending more time and money on this crawler until I get to the point where I am satisfied with the crawler and its ability and then decide what to do next in this hobby.

BMFOTP · 04-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundcolor

contrary to popular belief, TT is not the devil...
However, it can rear its ugly head sometimes.

As the other guys stated, It can be minimalized. Not stopped. The best, best best thing you can do is a 4 link. Although a four link wont stop all of it. It is the single most helpfull thing you can do. After that, springs and shocks, and fine tuning. Not all four links are created equal, nor are all shocks. So knowing that, you need to find what one works best for you, and what kinda crawling you like.

Ask the guys that have the same rig as you do what they did. Thats going to be a good starting point.

my crawler has a 4 link set up in the front and rear. What i have been working on is making as many triangles in my link system. in other words. the upper links make a triangle going towards the transmission. The lower links make a triangle going towards the axle. With the shocks providing support to the entire system.

i will try to get pics up tomorrow and let me tell me what i have messed up or what i have gotten right. if anything.

BMFOTP · 04-22-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treday619

Things that can be done to minimize Torque Twist

1. 4 link front and rear
2. Use a heavier weight oil in the left rear shock
3. Use a stiffer spring in the back
4. Use the new Optional Gear sets from Axial

There is no way to completely get rid of TT in a shafty you are just trying to minimize it as much as possible. You could always look into MOA or the new Losi Comp Crawler (Worm gears do not have TT)

what can you tell me about the optional gear set? what will changing the crawlers gearing do for the crawler in general and TT specifically?

it is only more money and time

XPLORx4 · 04-22-2009, 08:18 PM

The optional gearsets change the final drive ratios. If the front ratio is lower numerically than the rear, the front wheels will rotate faster than the rear, which can help decrease rear wheel "push" when approaching and climbing steep obstacles. If the front ratio is higher numerically than the rear, then the front wheels will rotate slower than the rear. (However, I'm not really sure how that would be an advantage. Here's 5 pages of posts that you can read to learn more.)

soundcolor · 04-22-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMFOTP

Unfortunately time is not a luxury I have to spend on searching for trade secrets:-(.

Well why didnt you say so.
Here is what you need to do if you dont want to spend time tinkering, you can do this all in one shot. (I'm assuming you have a axial ax10)
CKRC Rockstar chassis kit C. 104.99
http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/ind...roducts_id=884

CKRC stage 2 comp. upgrade kit w/ bent links. 39.99
http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/ind...roducts_id=575

You can also go to CKRC at this link to get any other parts you want
http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/ind...1e8f2e71631358

(not saying these are the be all end all best parts in the world. But they are extremely good. and should all but eliminate your TT problems.)

And the reason the upgraded gear kit helps, is because it reduces the final drive ratio. Which is the short way of saying the motor turns the axles slower, thus creating less immediate torque.

04-20-2009, 09:08 PM	#1
BMFOTP Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 379	Rear Wheel Torque Twist I have recently noted that the left rear tire on my crawler is demonstrating torque twist. The TT is most apparent when my crawler goes from forward to reverse. I have done the mirrore transmission modification to my crawler. What else is needed to diagnosis this problem and have someone give me corrective actions for my crawler. Thanks in advance for any help.:-P

04-21-2009, 08:57 PM	#9
BMFOTP Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 379	Simple Question??? Is there a point where my crawler will have mininmal or no TT? Or are shaft driven crawlers plaqued by this problem no matter what the owner does to the crawler? Are the MOA a better choice of a crawler if I am the type of person who wants the fewest problems from a crawler? I know I will still have to build and tune and test, but overall are MOAs better than shaft driven crawlers? I am starting to get discouraged and dont want to leave the hobby if there is a better alternative.

04-20-2009, 09:27 PM	#2
ncalkrawler Quarry Creeper Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: vacaville Posts: 256	here's this might help Torque twist...

04-20-2009, 09:29 PM	#3
paintballer9876 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Punta Gorda, Flo-rida Posts: 453	Pick of the links and the crawler its self would help, my axial has 4 link fornt and rear and stiffer springs on the rear shocks, and there is almost no torque twist.

04-21-2009, 05:42 PM	#4
Duuuuuuuude Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 11,652	I get TT too when going from forward to reverse, but I don't care. I don't climb things backwards.

04-21-2009, 08:14 PM	#8
legion1capone Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 453	x2 you don't climb backwards. When you are running your crawler in a comp your not mashing it from forward to reverse, you ease into it. I wouldn't worry about it, unless it really affects how your crawler crawls.

04-21-2009, 09:19 PM	#10
legion1capone Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 453	With the right modifications and suspension setup you can minimize the TT. I don't think there is any one way to completely get rid of TT in a shaft driven rig. But I have seen shaft driven trucks do some amazing things. Take a look at some of the competition videos I have posted on youtube, just search my username. Setup is key! But yes MOA is one way of not having to worry about TT since TT is caused by the driveshafts. I wouldn't say MOA's are any better than Shaft driven rigs when it comes to a well setup comp truck after what I've seen.

04-21-2009, 09:25 PM	#11
HomerJ Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lexington Posts: 707	Ah, no need to get discouraged just yet man. TT is something that every single person that has ever had a shafty on this board has dealt with. Look around for some threads on torque twist, there are tons, and start trying some of the suggestions in there. Hell, there are shafties that are still extremely competitive in comp scenes, you just have to put forth the effort to find the trade secrets

04-21-2009, 10:36 PM	#12
Duuuuuuuude Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 11,652	MOA's are in no way trouble free. Just the fact that there is almost twice the amount of electronics to deal with is enough to keep my away. TT is a part of owning a shafty, you just need to learn how to minimize, then deal with it. Sometimes you can even use it to your advantage. Like was stated before, its all in the tuning. Its also in knowing your rig. Drive the piss out of it, tweak it a bit, then drive it some more.

04-22-2009, 11:55 AM	#13
soundcolor Rock Crawler Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cottontown Posts: 880	contrary to popular belief, TT is not the devil... However, it can rear its ugly head sometimes. As the other guys stated, It can be minimalized. Not stopped. The best, best best thing you can do is a 4 link. Although a four link wont stop all of it. It is the single most helpfull thing you can do. After that, springs and shocks, and fine tuning. Not all four links are created equal, nor are all shocks. So knowing that, you need to find what one works best for you, and what kinda crawling you like. Ask the guys that have the same rig as you do what they did. Thats going to be a good starting point.

04-22-2009, 12:57 PM	#14
treday619 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 971	Things that can be done to minimize Torque Twist 1. 4 link front and rear 2. Use a heavier weight oil in the left rear shock 3. Use a stiffer spring in the back 4. Use the new Optional Gear sets from Axial There is no way to completely get rid of TT in a shafty you are just trying to minimize it as much as possible. You could always look into MOA or the new Losi Comp Crawler (Worm gears do not have TT)

04-22-2009, 08:18 PM	#19
XPLORx4 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galt Posts: 282	The optional gearsets change the final drive ratios. If the front ratio is lower numerically than the rear, the front wheels will rotate faster than the rear, which can help decrease rear wheel "push" when approaching and climbing steep obstacles. If the front ratio is higher numerically than the rear, then the front wheels will rotate slower than the rear. (However, I'm not really sure how that would be an advantage. Here's 5 pages of posts that you can read to learn more.)

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