Lipo or NiHm? 2s or 3s?

[No2Mud]

I asked one question about batteries (thanks @mewalsh100!) in another thread, but that led to a few more. Then, I was reading some stickies on batteries... til I noticed they were from 2008. In battery years, that's ancient. So...I figured I'd start another thread to get some advice:

Lipo vs NiMh... What are all the cool kids doing here? Is this like Traxxas vs Axial (opinion) or Halogen vs LED (innovation)?

On the topic of 2s vs 3s, the guy at Redcat Racing said "3s supplies more power but the Gen8 is a crawler - so the power doesn’t really make a huge difference. The truck's still going to crawl regardless. The 3s just makes it go a little bit faster on the top speed." So, either seems to be fine... right?

I'm probably going to buy a Gen8 Scout. I have no interest in competing, attending rallies... I really don't think I'll have huge performance demands beyond the standard. (I know... says everyone when they get into any hobby)

Thanks!

[rkj__]

I started off with 2S LiPo. It gave me all the power I needed, and none I didn't.

3S will give you more top speed, and a higher chance of breaking parts.

NiMh, well, most of the cool kids are not using those anymore.

[HumboldtEF]

In general most use 3S lipo, most start off with 2S and most end up switching to 3S eventually.

I recommend starting off with 3S and skipping having to make the switch. With 3S you may want to gear down to slow the truck down but doing this will provide a bit more efficiency (volt up gear down).

[TwiztidDevil]

I have an old NiMh and to be completely honest I hate it. It has no low end voltage for my wraith. If I get to a tough obstacle I have to either hit it fast and hard (which breaks things) or try and crawl and when it gets tough it shuts off. I've ordered 4-2s lipos and hope they fix this issue also ordered 2-3s lipos but haven't received them yet so I can't give any opinion on which is better.

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[Panther6834]

LiPo, or LiHV (LiPo high voltage), are the only way to go these days. As for 2S vs 3S, depends on your vehicle(s) and intended use(s). My race vehicles are always 2S only. My crawlers are all 3S only. My bashers are 2S, with VERY rare 3S use (for bashers, I've got eight 2S, and only one 3S).

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[No2Mud]

I swear I don't know why I go to the manufactures for any info - forums like this just have better, more real-world info. Oh, I could've just stuck with what @mewalsh100 said - and ignored the confusion from Redcat. He said "Go with the 3s"

Thanks guys!

[Jim85IROC]

I much prefer 3S for my crawlers. Yes, you get more speed, but the real beauty is the extra torque that you get at low RPM. Startup is more predictable, and you can do a better job of going slow consistently because of the torque available. When you come to an obstacle, that torque helps you keep those wheels spinning at a constant speed instead of needing to juice the throttle to get over the obstacle. Also, you can gear the truck down more, which gives even more torque, and it gives you a lower startup speed.

More volts means more good.

[No2Mud]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

I much prefer 3S for my crawlers. Yes, you get more speed, but the real beauty is the extra torque that you get at low RPM. Startup is more predictable, and you can do a better job of going slow consistently because of the torque available. When you come to an obstacle, that torque helps you keep those wheels spinning at a constant speed instead of needing to juice the throttle to get over the obstacle. Also, you can gear the truck down more, which gives even more torque, and it gives you a lower startup speed.

More volts means more good.

Having played with 1:1 Jeeps and Toyotas for years, that jerky movement - where the RC truck stops... then pops over a rock - just looks unrealistic. I've seen the opposite - where the RC truck just crawls - like a real truck. Great to know why that's happening. Thanks for yet another lesson @Jim85IROC and @TwiztidDevil

[No2Mud]

Anything wrong with a Zeee 5200mAh 50C 11.1V 3S for the stock Gen8 Scout?

[themountain]

One more for 3s lipo but you have to gear down to not fry your motor. ;)

[QuesoDelDiablo]

Originally Posted by No2Mud

Anything wrong with a Zeee 5200mAh 50C 11.1V 3S for the stock Gen8 Scout?

Nothing wrong with it at all, except the size, it's really big and really heavy. Some people are fine with the weight penalty of big batts, but I don't like it.

I run all 3S, but never bigger than 2200-2800mAh to keep the unsprung weight down.

On an average day I get 2-2.5hrs runtime out of 2200mAh battery..

And you don't need that high a C rating on crawler either. 5200mAh at 50C can sustain 260Amp discharge continuous, 520 on burst. You really only need to be able to draw 60-80Amps continuously so you could save some money.

(Discharge= Crating X Capacity i.e. 5.2Ah X 50C = 260Amps)

[HugoBiermann]

If you are real casual, 2s. Its all I need and run both 2200mah and 5200mah packs depending on how much runtime I need. I do have a whole bunch of NiMh packs because of my Tamiya’s not having the space for 2s Hard Packs. I have trailed with 7.2v 5000mah NiMh packs a bunch. Its fine for silly trails, just heavy. I always have a backup 7.2v pack in my pack when out for a long trip too. I have done 3hr trails with a NiMh, similar to my 2s. Around 5000mah on both.

The difference in power is major though. You notice the sluggishness of the NiMh instantly.


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[lonleycreeper]

Another factor.

Nimh batteries deggrade much faster than Lipo's. You can get 300 charge cycles out of a lipo easily, whereas the Nimh is reaching its limit. The other aspect is dicharging performance. A lipo will go and go giving similar performance until it hits the cutoff and its done. A nimh will strart dropping performance right away until the truck will not move.

[mewalsh100]

I would recommend Lipo over NiMh for weight savings, more efficient power delivery, and form factor / size. I also agree with HumboldtEF - save your money and just go to 3S lipo. It's going to provide the power and torque you need, but has the added benefit of giving you a good bit more wheel speed. As far as breaking parts on 3s versus 2s, in general I'd say it's a bit of a fallacy. Your trigger finger is the first line of defense when it comes to preserving your rig and its parts. If you're in a hard bind and you try and power / plow your way out of it, 2S has more than enough power to break things just as well as 3S. Point being, you may as well have the extra wheel speed and torque that the 3S provides and just exercise good trigger discipline in situations where you can tell the rig is hung up, stuck, bound. Honestly, I run 4S almost exclusively on 2 of my rigs and have never had an issue. But, I'm also not one of those guys who will sit for 10 mins and try and wiggle, forward/reverse my rig out of a bind until I hear a snap! When in doubt, I go "hand of god".

[TwiztidDevil]

Yeah guys I've ordered some 3s batteries because I like what I've read from y'all about low end torque and not stopping on the tougher obstacles. You guys said that in order to keep from burning up my motor I'd need to drop my gearing down. What would be a good gear set to run?

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[QuesoDelDiablo]

Originally Posted by TwiztidDevil

Yeah guys I've ordered some 3s batteries because I like what I've read from y'all about low end torque and not stopping on the tougher obstacles. You guys said that in order to keep from burning up my motor I'd need to drop my gearing down. What would be a good gear set to run?

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I'd just drop the pinion gear down in size by about 2 teeth and call it good.

Or if you don't have easy access to pinions you probably don't even to worry too much as long as you don't spend a lot of time at wide open throttle or under heavy load.

[TwiztidDevil]

Thanks Queso I will order a new pinion gear that's 2-3 teeth lower. I appreciate the advice.

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[mewalsh100]

Originally Posted by QuesoDelDiablo

I'd just drop the pinion gear down in size by about 2 teeth and call it good.

Or if you don't have easy access to pinions you probably don't even to worry too much as long as you don't spend a lot of time at wide open throttle or under heavy load.

Agree with QuesoDelDiablo. Just keep any eye on motor temps. You can pick up a Durtrax Flashpoint Infrared heat sensor - about $25. Simply point at the motor, press button, and it'll give you the temp in F or C. Or, use the old finger method. If you can't hold finger on the motor for 10 seconds or so after some hard running, you're too hot.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by mewalsh100

Agree with QuesoDelDiablo. Just keep any eye on motor temps. You can pick up a Durtrax Flashpoint Infrared heat sensor - about $25. Simply point at the motor, press button, and it'll give you the temp in F or C. Or, use the old finger method. If you can't hold finger on the motor for 10 seconds or so after some hard running, you're too hot.

FYI, if you have a Harbor Freight around, they sell the same temp sensor for $10.

[TwiztidDevil]

I am running a 3500kv brushless motor, I've added a heat sink with cooling fan to help it stay cool. It does great on NiMh batteries and on the 2s LiPo I have. However with the advice from earlier in this thread I ordered 2 3s LiPo batteries and would prefer run them if they have better low end torque. I do a lot of tough crawling in the woods and river banks as I live in the country and love 4 wheeling. I have the stock 13 tooth pinion gear in my rig, being advised to drop it down should I go to like a 15 tooth or is that the wrong way? Would a 15 tooth be adequate to keep my motor running cool?

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