Super mini class

[Solitaire]

Ah, where to start...

As much as extra features available on RCORVA could be a good thing, I think you need to tune up what you have now. I truly think the idea of the RCORVA site is a great tool, but it's only working at 20% at the moment. You have approx 70 drivers registered out of a possible 1000 (?) worldwide. Where are the rest? The "Events" page hasn't been updated since Nov and it appears the "Calendar" has been slow to update for some users. You could probably remove the "Events" tab and just go with the "Calendar" for upcoming events.

As far as sub-classes...why make more work for event organizers? Their hands are already full organizing, acquiring sponsors, trophies and accommodation. We already have working rules and build restrictions on 2.2P, 2.2S Mini and Super. The only class that's not been clear from the start is Trail and the small numbers at last year's Worlds was the result. If a driver registers in an event with his 2.2P, that's all the event organizers need to know, not what chassis, motors, ESC's, tires or color.

If someone wants to run an SCX10, a Wraith, an Ascender...whatever, who cares. It doesn't need to be sub-classed. Let the drivers build to the rules.

Now, back to Super Minis...why 4.25" tires? Tire size will be self-policing as too tall will create an imbalance. I still vote for no restrictions whatsoever.

[cboggs]

If there's a max tire height I would rather see it at 5", that way you could use 1.9 or 2.2 wheels and still be under what the 2.2 classes run. 4.25" leaves one option only (1.9 Rover) in my opinion.

[Olle P]

There is another way to allow competition on a budget, used for a type of Rallycross in the Nordic countries.
1. You're allowed to compete with just about any car you wish (as long as it adheres to som basic safety regulations).
2. After the event all cars (less seat and safety harness) are for sale at a fixed price. (Currently 6500SEK, ~700USD, in Sweden.)
Any driver refusing to sell his car (at that price) will have his competition licence revoked.

Translating this to Rc crawlers:
Use the standard USRCCA rules, excluding section 2.

• Gate width (as per rule 4.2) at least 16".
• Section 2 of the rules is replaced by:
  • May only use battery powered electric motor(s) and must have at least one of those.
    Auxillary forms of propulsion that isn't a "motor", like sails and rubber bands, are allowed, as is solar panels accompanying the battery.
    No forms of combustion/fire is allowed.
  • Must use [specified] battery connector.
  • Must be higher density than air (even without the battery and/or Rx).
  • Must not be heavier than 10kg in running condition.
  • Rx and battery must be (somewhat) easily removable.
  • After the competition the vehicle; including motor(s), servo(s) and ESC(s) but excluding battery and Rx; must be for sale at a price of [specified amount <$200].
  • A driver may not remove his vehicle from the event area before all bids have been processed. (Can't go home early because the vehicle is broken or so.)
  • Bidding:
    * The sales of the vehicles is administered by the event holder.
    * During and directly after the competition any competing driver or other adult person(*) is allowed to place one or more bids on one (and only one) of the vehicles in the competition (including one's own).
    * The bidder writes down his name, identity of the vehicle bidding for and number of bids on a paper(#). Place the paper and $5/bid in cash in an envelope(#). Place the envelope where specified by the event holder.
    * The envelop is not to be opened until all bids are in. Who's been placing bids is also to be kept secret by the event holder.
    * After all bids are in (should be 15 minutes after last run) the envelopes are opened and the bids sorted by vehicle.
    * Vehicles without bids are free to be taken back home by the owner.
    * If more than one person is bidding on a vehicle the winner is decided by public lottery. One lot/bid.
    * The winner pays the price, in cash, to the owner(¤). All bidding fees are kept by the event holder.
  (*) The event holder and persons involved in handling the biddings during the event may not place bids.
  (#) Provided by the event holder.
  (¤) The seller and buyer may include battery(s) and/or radio in the purchase if they agree on a separate pricing for those.

- Here you can compete with a bone stock Maverick Scout or Redcat RS10 (after replacing the battery connector and made sure the receiver can be removed) and are not likely going to find MOA crawlers with parts worth $3,000.
- Builders should have a blast optimizing to cost.
- Spectators can place bids on the vehicles to get one for next event.

Notes:
* Battery type, size and voltage is NOT specified.
* Number of radio channels is also NOT specified.
* Number (and size) of wheels on the vehicle is not specified. (All types of tyres and tracks are allowed!)
* Vehicle size is not regulated, only gate width.
* No limitations regarding size or existance of "body" or "panels".

The negatives I find with these rules:
* Crawler setup preferences are very personal. Running someone else's crawler thus can be less enjoyable. (But it's a challenge!)
* Spare parts, or lack thereof?
* Batteries. Using a standard battery spoils the spirit, not using it makes it difficult to have a fitting one at hand.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I didn't realize perfection was needed before we talk about the future. I'll stop wasting people's time until after everyone is happy, should only take a few lifetimes! The calendar and news system is being addressed as the core change of RCorvas front, along with the control panel interface that will make it easier for drivers and hosts. There's not many drivers because we need to improve the hosts side, the biggest complaint is the effort of creating the first event.


Why regulate tires? Why regulate anything? until we start seeing some mini supers it is getting the same tire limits as the rest of the vehicles on paper. Show me some 5" or 6" tire super rigs for 12" gates and we can have more than just discussion!

[winnerone23]

Here's one.. Tires are post 4-7..
Mini Super

Mini Super

I have 4.25" tires.. But wouldn't mind letting the gates and setup dictate the tire size.
I don't think a 5" tire is realistic.. It's just that 4.25" is small..

Just wanted to post the thread, for some visual tire sizing..

[JohnRobHolmes]

4.25" is very small, about miniature size

[CrawlinMike]

But I wanna run 8 inch tires and a center pivot.

[cboggs]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I didn't realize perfection was needed before we talk about the future. I'll stop wasting people's time until after everyone is happy, should only take a few lifetimes! The calendar and news system is being addressed as the core change of RCorvas front, along with the control panel interface that will make it easier for drivers and hosts. There's not many drivers because we need to improve the hosts side, the biggest complaint is the effort of creating the first event.

From what I hear the problem is creating ANY event and not getting emails replied to. The RCORVA site is a great idea but if it doesnt work then whats the point besides getting everyone that tries to use it frustrated.

[MRCrackhead]

I'm attempting a Super Mini right now.

Tire size is an issue, without any rules to follow.

There's only so much room, with a 12" gate in mind.

The mini 12" gate is dictating almost everything I do, and frustrating me to no end.

I want to go narrower, but can't, due to axle choice... but I actually can, just hesitant because it's a hypothetical build at this point.

More rules don't mean squat to me.

The build itself has it's own rules, and they're kicking my butt.

[EverettY]

Originally Posted by cboggs

If there's a max tire height I would rather see it at 5", that way you could use 1.9 or 2.2 wheels and still be under what the 2.2 classes run. 4.25" leaves one option only (1.9 Rover) in my opinion.

I have made sets of 1.9 VooDoo's... I think they'd be the perfect tires to use for one of these...

[winnerone23]

Originally Posted by EverettY

I have made sets of 1.9 VooDoo's... I think they'd be the perfect tires to use for one of these...

Ssshhhhh.... Giving away my secrets! Lol..

I'll most likely be building a set of mini doo's for mine. But I'll wait till final tire size is established.
I'll run the 4.25" rover's, for now.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by cboggs

From what I hear the problem is creating ANY event and not getting emails replied to. The RCORVA site is a great idea but if it doesnt work then whats the point besides getting everyone that tries to use it frustrated.

Some people have trouble creating events. Some people don't, as evidenced by events present on the calender. From what I've seen on my end, the folks that "can't" create events are trying to make them without dates or locations. Both of which can't be omitted during the creation.

As for emails, we typically have a 2 day turnaround time. The organization is in infancy and it is tough to balance staffing against little revenues. The new website build should greatly reduce the need to email in the first place, as we have been listening for improvements. Having a next button instead of assuming the user will be able to navigate with tabs during event creation is one improvement

[MRCrackhead]

Originally Posted by winnerone23

But I'll wait till final tire size is established.
I'll run the 4.25" rover's, for now.

I doubt anything will get established.

Nobody can seem to keep track of what the title of this thread is, let alone establish a new class.

I fully expect to build my mini super to compete against the local squirrels.

Comp is dead to the masses... so be it... I'm still building because that's as much fun as the other factors that are involved.

Competing is only one part of "my hobby".

Just my opinion, no particular jab at anybody.

[Solitaire]

I think it'll be a situation of "If you build it, they will come". Hafta start somewhere.

[winnerone23]

We are building in PA!

My final parts, to get started, showed up today..

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by Solitaire

I think it'll be a situation of "If you build it, they will come". Hafta start somewhere.

This here. My decision on "mini" to be 4.25" because it is the established small tire size among practically everything else, but that shouldn't stop people from building what they think will be fun at first. Like Solitaire says, we hafta start somewhere and I have started as vague as possible without making tires a wild card too.



The one very important issue is that if a class is going to catch on, it does need to have purchasable tire options that are correct in size and sidewall stiffness. If you HAVE to build your tires from sidewalls and treads it won't ever float beyond a few builds.



Since this is really the "unlimited" type of vehicle I'm more open to larger tires if there are options that do not require modifications to be good performers. Give me (and others) the comfort of traction being a readily available item in taller sizes and it won't be a hard sell.

[cboggs]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

This here. My decision on "mini" to be 4.25" because it is the established small tire size among practically everything else, but that shouldn't stop people from building what they think will be fun at first. Like Solitaire says, we hafta start somewhere and I have started as vague as possible without making tires a wild card too.



The one very important issue is that if a class is going to catch on, it does need to have purchasable tire options that are correct in size and sidewall stiffness. If you HAVE to build your tires from sidewalls and treads it won't ever float beyond a few builds.



Since this is really the "unlimited" type of vehicle I'm more open to larger tires if there are options that do not require modifications to be good performers. Give me (and others) the comfort of traction being a readily available item in taller sizes and it won't be a hard sell.

There are some nice 1.9 scale tires that might be a good fit that are over the 4.25" size, including the upcoming Voodoo 1.9. Maybe a set 1.9 wheel size would make more sense than limiting tires?

[MRCrackhead]

The down side to limiting the wheel to 1.9 is there's so little room for weights.

I'm going with 2.2 wheels just for that reason.

I cut my own tires, and it was interesting.

I agree it's not for everybody. Ready made tires would be sweet.

Like anything, if it catches on, tire guys will offer them, I'd hope.

Trying to keep big axles narrow enough, and stack weight for performance could be a drag at 1.9.

[MRCrackhead]

Second thought on the subject.

It's not a mini.... it's a mini super.

Something has to be different, or we could all add some shift hubs and stretch links and be done.

More options is more fun.

Don't regulate it to death, the 12" gate will do the work for you.

[winnerone23]

A custom steering/axle/knuckle weight setup, is hard enough on a mrc and 1.9 wheels..

Jumping to 2.2's on a moa mini setup, would open up all kinds of doors.
For weight setup's, tires and foams, steering, etc, etc..

I think opening up tire selection, is a Great idea.. My old worn out 1.9 RB's @ 4.5" would stretch over a 2.2 and be a great stock/buyable tire to use.
They are readily available and leaves the use of tires that might be sitting in a box, open for use.

The more restrictions that are put in this "new class" will be All of that! Restrictions! Restricting the builders. Restricting the use of parts in a box..
Parts that might of never seen the light of day, are now getting a use..

"I have 2.2 wheels, 1.9 RB's, some old losi axle's, sitting in a box. As parts, I'd never use them.. In this class, they make a rig! If the class is limited to 1.9.. I'm not buying parts for it."

You know the above "" is exactly enough to lose one person.. Which leads too 2 ppl.. And so on..

I understand the need for some things.. I don't want to see ppl shy away because of them tho.. I've seen some fires lit over this idea.. Why smother that?