A Black Cat builds...his second crawler: SSD Trail King Pro

[HumboldtEF]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

Is it possible to install a fan on the Micro X, to help keep it cooler "just in case"?

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

I could see that happening though there isn't a fan mount or somewhere to plug the fan in.

Making up a fan mount and plugging the fan into the receiver shouldn't be too difficult.


I setup a rig a while back with a cooling fan hooked up to a receiver switch/remote switch (not sure what the proper name is). I did this so I didn't have to listen to it all the time and could turn it on when I was running it hard.

[scaled]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

I'm still not 100% convinced on the AXE F.O.C. System...but, if I do decide to go for it, it would be going in the TF2 (either that, or another Mamba X/HH PP STD combo). For now, only the TF2 will be built as a "scale rig" (technically, a "super-scale"), with the TK probably getting a Lexan body (alright, when I decide to 'upgrade' the TK, I might change it to a "scale" w/ hard plastic body...still undecided.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

Currently running a Revolver/SW4 in my 10.1, a MambaX/Slate 2850 in the 10.2, and a 1250KV Tenshock in a Wraith. All are great and controllable. Almost went with another Revolver, my current favorite based on simplicity/performance/cost. Sensors are the biggest issue with the Slate combo. Had issues in wetter conditions even with dielectric grease. Went with the HW AXE based on recommendations, waterproof connections, and Bluetooth adjust-ability. We will see which one comes out supreme.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by scaled

Currently running a Revolver/SW4 in my 10.1, a MambaX/Slate 2850 in the 10.2, and a 1250KV Tenshock in a Wraith. All are great and controllable. Almost went with another Revolver, my current favorite based on simplicity/performance/cost. Sensors are the biggest issue with the Slate combo. Had issues in wetter conditions even with dielectric grease. Went with the HW AXE based on recommendations, waterproof connections, and Bluetooth adjust-ability. We will see which one comes out supreme.

Will be interested in the outcome. So far, my vehicles have a few Fantom motors (Icon & Icon Torque), a couple of HW, one Team Powers, one Castle Slate, and now a HH PP STD.

I finally received the HH PP, so working on installing that. Unfortunately, got word clients will be ready sooner than expected, so just had to temporarily pack everything up. I now understand what others have meant about the PitA if getting the mesh properly set. I've already disassembled/reassembled the transmission 4x, and the mesh still isn't "baby bear" just yet. I've installed several motors over this past year (when I got back into RC), and, until today, 3x is the most number of times it took (that occurred only once...the rest were all once, or twice). When I post today's update, I'll include how many times, in the end, it took.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

Ok, NOW, the chassis IS finished. While my clients are busy enjoying their evening, I had enough time to finish the rest of the chassis...the motor is installed into the transmission, the transmission/T-case is installed on the chassis, the servo is in place, and the shocks were filled & installed (tho, I'm not 100% happy with them). As I earlier, now I understand what others have been saying about the difficult in getting the mesh "just right" (or, "baby bear", as I call it). In the end, I had to disassemble/reassemble the transmission 7x...but, I did get it (and, yes, I realize I had initially attached the motor mounts backwards, on the wrong side of the motor plate, and on the wrong sides...but, I did correct my mistake before installing the motor/transmission/T-case.

In the step where I had built the transmission, I reported a slight "rough spot" when rotating the rear. Well, I can tell you that said "rough spot" is COMPLETELY gone...I can rotate the transmission all I want, and there's no longer any "rough spot". All that's left are the things I can't yet install - ESC, Rx, body, bumpers, wheels, and tires - because I don't have them (I probably have a spare Futaba Rx in one of my boxes...will check tomorrow).
Honestly, the shocks are actually fantastic...buttery-smooth, with really nice springs. The reason I'm "not happy" with them is probably my fault. I'm used to bleeder-style shocks, and traditional off-road emulsion shocks, but these are different, and I could use some help in understanding how they're supposed to be properly done. Here's what I did:

I filled them almost to the top, and then did my usual bleeding, by moving the shafts slowly up & down a few times, then leaving them in the 'up' position for 15-20 minutes. Next, I worked them up & down a few more times, then filled them to the top. Finally, I held the shaft in the fully-up position, and installed the cap (while also wiping excess oil than ran down the shock body). While I was screwing the cap, as I approached full tightness, I noticed that the shaft was being forced slightly down. Additionally, after the call was completely tight, I noticed that the shaft doesn't have full up/down movement...they fully extend, but, in the 'up' position, they stop short of being fully compressed by about 1/8-3/16". What am I doing wrong? Assistance is appreciated. Anyway, here's the completed chassis. In short, "I like".

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[carpetfuzz17]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

Ok, NOW, the chassis IS finished. While my clients are busy enjoying their evening, I had enough time to finish the rest of the chassis...the motor is installed into the transmission, the transmission/T-case is installed on the chassis, the servo is in place, and the shocks were filled & installed (tho, I'm not 100% happy with them). As I earlier, now I understand what others have been saying about the difficult in getting the mesh "just right" (or, "baby bear", as I call it). In the end, I had to disassemble/reassemble the transmission 7x...but, I did get it (and, yes, I realize I had initially attached the motor mounts backwards, on the wrong side of the motor plate, and on the wrong sides...but, I did correct my mistake before installing the motor/transmission/T-case.



In the step where I had built the transmission, I reported a slight "rough spot" when rotating the rear. Well, I can tell you that said "rough spot" is COMPLETELY gone...I can rotate the transmission all I want, and there's no longer any "rough spot". All that's left are the things I can't yet install - ESC, Rx, body, bumpers, wheels, and tires - because I don't have them (I probably have a spare Futaba Rx in one of my boxes...will check tomorrow).

Honestly, the shocks are actually fantastic...buttery-smooth, with really nice springs. The reason I'm "not happy" with them is probably my fault. I'm used to bleeder-style shocks, and traditional off-road emulsion shocks, but these are different, and I could use some help in understanding how they're supposed to be properly done. Here's what I did:



I filled them almost to the top, and then did my usual bleeding, by moving the shafts slowly up & down a few times, then leaving them in the 'up' position for 15-20 minutes. Next, I worked them up & down a few more times, then filled them to the top. Finally, I held the shaft in the fully-up position, and installed the cap (while also wiping excess oil than ran down the shock body). While I was screwing the cap, as I approached full tightness, I noticed that the shaft was being forced slightly down. Additionally, after the call was completely tight, I noticed that the shaft doesn't have full up/down movement...they fully extend, but, in the 'up' position, they stop short of being fully compressed by about 1/8-3/16". What am I doing wrong? Assistance is appreciated. Anyway, here's the completed chassis. In short, "I like".



~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

I had the same issue with me shocks also. I to am coming from a off road shock setup. Bleeder screws are wonderful.

What I found is that on the SSD shocks is that it seems that the piston hits the bottom of the cap when screwed down. That’s why you can’t push the shaft the whole way in.

I installed 2 orings from the hardware store to the shock shaft. When the shaft is pushed in the orings stop the piston slightly below the threads on the inside of body.

Me shocks are super smooth and are much easier to bleed with the orings.

Hopefully this helps you.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by carpetfuzz17

What I found is that on the SSD shocks is that it seems that the piston hits the bottom of the cap when screwed down. That’s why you can’t push the shaft the whole way in.

I installed 2 orings from the hardware store to the shock shaft. When the shaft is pushed in the orings stop the piston slightly below the threads on the inside of body.

I've done that O-ring thing with off-road shocks on the front...it helps to "soften the blow" when landing from a jump. It's especially helpful on 2WD vehicles (with 4WD, you can adjust the landing angle), as well as larger/heavier vehicles, such as my TLR 8ight-XE.

Regarding the shock compression, before I opened the shocks to add oil, I was able to fully compress the shocks. NIt's only after adding the oil, and screwing the caps back on, that I can no longer fully compress them. I could be mistaken, but, for some reason, I'm recalling something mentioned in another thread, where someone said these type of shocks need some air in them to fully function properly. Maybe (tomorrow), I'll try removing some of the oil (say, only 3/4 full), and see if the shocks fully compress then.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

To help decide on the ESC, I thought the best thing would be to weigh the TK. Unfortunately...and, quite obviously...since it's not exactly 100% finished, it's impossible to get an accurate weight. Anyway, I pulled out my (mostly) trusty RC scale, and the chassis, as-is, comes in at 1,392g (I should mention I've temporarily removed the shocks, to resolve the previously-mentioned "problem"), which is just a tad over 3lbs.
The front/rear weight balance appears to be quite nice (will work to maintain somewhere between 60/40 & 65/35, when completed). As for the left/right balance, that should be taken care of with the ESC & Rx...and, maybe a little help from my "old friend" Tungsten Weight. Anyway, the real purpose of weighing the chassis was to determine whether it's possible to user the Mamba Micro X, or whether this calls for the Mamba X.

If I were going to stick with a Lexan body, I'm estimating that the "missing" parts would add approx 2-3lbs...probably closer to 2lbs. Based on that, the final weight would probably be approx 5-6lbs, which would be just fine work the Micro X. As I'm still new to crawlers, those reading this are going to be more familiar with more accurate weights...so, if my estimate is too high/low, please let me know.

However, as the plan is to (sooner, or later) replace the Lexan body with a hard plastic body, that would probably add another lb, bringing my estimate up to 6-7lbs, which is getting close the the Micro X's max. The Micro X should still be possible (especially with the CC BEC 2.0), but, I also don't want to "push it".

Suggestions, recommendations, advice?

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[CODYBOY]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

Ok, NOW, the chassis IS finished. While my clients are busy enjoying their evening, I had enough time to finish the rest of the chassis...the motor is installed into the transmission, the transmission/T-case is installed on the chassis, the servo is in place, and the shocks were filled & installed (tho, I'm not 100% happy with them). As I earlier, now I understand what others have been saying about the difficult in getting the mesh "just right" (or, "baby bear", as I call it). In the end, I had to disassemble/reassemble the transmission 7x...but, I did get it (and, yes, I realize I had initially attached the motor mounts backwards, on the wrong side of the motor plate, and on the wrong sides...but, I did correct my mistake before installing the motor/transmission/T-case.

In the step where I had built the transmission, I reported a slight "rough spot" when rotating the rear. Well, I can tell you that said "rough spot" is COMPLETELY gone...I can rotate the transmission all I want, and there's no longer any "rough spot". All that's left are the things I can't yet install - ESC, Rx, body, bumpers, wheels, and tires - because I don't have them (I probably have a spare Futaba Rx in one of my boxes...will check tomorrow).
Honestly, the shocks are actually fantastic...buttery-smooth, with really nice springs. The reason I'm "not happy" with them is probably my fault. I'm used to bleeder-style shocks, and traditional off-road emulsion shocks, but these are different, and I could use some help in understanding how they're supposed to be properly done. Here's what I did:

I filled them almost to the top, and then did my usual bleeding, by moving the shafts slowly up & down a few times, then leaving them in the 'up' position for 15-20 minutes. Next, I worked them up & down a few more times, then filled them to the top. Finally, I held the shaft in the fully-up position, and installed the cap (while also wiping excess oil than ran down the shock body). While I was screwing the cap, as I approached full tightness, I noticed that the shaft was being forced slightly down. Additionally, after the call was completely tight, I noticed that the shaft doesn't have full up/down movement...they fully extend, but, in the 'up' position, they stop short of being fully compressed by about 1/8-3/16". What am I doing wrong? Assistance is appreciated. Anyway, here's the completed chassis. In short, "I like".

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

I pretty much did my shocks the same way you did yours, but then added a step. After I have gotten to the point of the shaft forcing my fingers open when I completely tighten the cap, I remove the cap and use a Q-tip to slowly remove oil. I keep repeating this step until I'm happy with the compression and rebound. I tried to figure out if I could install a bleeder screw, and without modifying the cap I didn't see how it could be done. Not being a engineer I didn't want to risk damaging the functionality and hydraulics of the shock. I'm sure if it was feasible Katan would have designed them that way. It does take a little work but they are now buttery smooth with just a touch of rebound.
Ernie

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

I pretty much did my shocks the same way you did yours, but then added a step. After I have gotten to the point of the shaft forcing my fingers open when I completely tighten the cap, I remove the cap and use a Q-tip to slowly remove oil. I keep repeating this step until I'm happy with the compression and rebound.

Thanks, Ernie. While I didn't follow your steps 100%, I did, in-effect, follow them...and the 'problem' is resolved. Chalk this one up to being a "crawler newb". I'm so used to shocks for off-road racing a where "more oil" is the answer, and then you bleed out the excess before installing the bleeder screw. Guess, for these type of shocks "less oil" is the answer. I've also decided to mount the shocks upside-down. Some people claim it helps lower the COG (honestly, I'm not convinced it lowers it all that much)...but, visually, I do like it. Might do the same on my Capra.

I did, however, discover something 'interesting' when I went to balance the shocks - they weren't quite the same length. After I finally had the shocks filled, and compression was near-perfect, I mounted the rear shocks onto my shock matching tool. While I was trying to get the preload matched, I realized that, in order to equalize them, one was requiring considerably more preload then the other. I checked the max length of them against each other, and that's when I realized one was slightly longer (approx 0.25mm) longer than the other. Out came one of my shock pliers, and, a few turns off the eye, I rechecked...and they were even. Seeing the possibility that the front pair might also be off, I checked them...and they were also uneven (by approx 0.5mm). Once the front & rear pairs were even, and preload was balanced, I mounted them:

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[svt923]

Upside down shocks used to be the rage back in the day. The "it lowers CG" argument was more likely because all crawler shocks 10+ years ago were junk and if they were upside down, the oil couldn't leak out.

Having the shocks mounted upside down can lead to inconsistent damping because the piston is often moving through an air bubble in the early part of the shock travel.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by svt923

Having the shocks mounted upside down can lead to inconsistent damping because the piston is often moving through an air bubble in the early part of the shock travel.

That's true...I hadn't thought of that. Again, coming from racing vehicles, I'm used to shocks being completely filled...no possibility of "air bubble" (if properly bled). Guess I'll put them back right-side up. Thanks for the info.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

I wasn't planning on using the included engine...but, I changed my mind. I haven't done a full "detailing", but I did paint it.

Here's what it looks like mounted, with working as hidden as I can get it. The ESC will be mounted on the passenger side. The motor wires exit the engine through the top hole, and should be the perfect length to plug into the ESC. I cut a small hole in the 'oil pan', to route the sensor cable, then I ran the sensor cable past the transmission, looping it under one of the battery tray screws, where it should be able to plug into the sensor port on the ESC.

The servo cable was routed down the other side of the transmission, under a different battery tray screw, and will plus into the Rx, which I'll mount on the driver side. Depending on the length of the Rx wire from the ESC, I'll either run it under the battery tray (if it's long enough), or directly over the transmission.
One upgrade I've decided I need asap are the aluminum shock towers. The rear plastic ones look perfectly straight, but the front ones are slightly deformed, curving inward. I thought they were, can both it wasn't until I went to install the engine that I REALLY noticed. From what I can (visually) tell, they go up perfectly straight for the first 1/2 to 2/3, and that's the point where they veer inward. Thankfully, I was already planning on getting the aluminum shock towers...was just planning to wait a couple months. But, since they also affect the body mount positions, I might as well get them now.


~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

One upgrade I've decided I need asap are the aluminum shock towers. The rear plastic ones look perfectly straight, but the front ones are slightly deformed, curving inward. I thought they were, can both it wasn't until I went to install the engine that I REALLY noticed. From what I can (visually) tell, they go up perfectly straight for the first 1/2 to 2/3, and that's the point where they veer inward. Thankfully, I was already planning on getting the aluminum shock towers...was just planning to wait a couple months.

The shock towers are not the issue, it is the chassis rail that is slightly tilted at the shock towers. The aluminum towers would have the exact same issue.

Since the chassis is wider at the skid and pinched narrower at the bumper mount, it causes the rail to tilt inward slightly as it is flexed from the skid width down to the bumper mount width. All chassis will do this and bracing will usually compensate for the deflection but the motor position on the Trail King prevents a brace being run straight across the chassis at the shock tower mounting points to pull them back to fully square. Different chassis rails may have this to varying degrees. My chassis also had the tilted shock towers, enough to make the body posts significantly off from the holes in my body (originally from a SCXII) but not so much the engine didn't fit.

The easy solution is to grab the chassis rails with a wrench or pair of pliers right behind the shock towers and give it a twist outward to square up the towers. Go slow and you can get the towers to perfectly vertical without much issue.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by svt923

The shock towers are not the issue, it is the chassis rail that is slightly tilted at the shock towers. The aluminum towers would have the exact same issue.


The easy solution is to grab the chassis rails with a wrench or pair of pliers right behind the shock towers and give it a twist outward to square up the towers. Go slow and you can get the towers to perfectly vertical without much issue.

Once the aluminum towers arrive (USPS shows them "out for delivery", but uncertain whether they'll arrive before I leave for work this afternoon), if that doesn't straighten things out, I'll consider giving your suggestion a try. Like you suggested, I'd go slow...not only to make certain I don't "over-tweak" things, but also to make certain I don't damage the rails, or mar the rail's finish. Thanks for the info.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[B-MOW71]

I just got the chance to read thru your build thread! Looking good!

Great job on the engine detailing!

You guys with all these Trail King builds are making me want one!

Since I hit my rig limit earlier this year and went passed my limit, I'm hoping to pick one up early next year!

Subscribed and looking forward to seeing more!

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by B-MOW71

I just got the chance to read thru your build thread! Looking good!



Great job on the engine detailing!



You guys with all these Trail King builds are making me want one!



Since I hit my rig limit earlier this year and went passed my limit, I'm hoping to pick one up early next year!



Subscribed and looking forward to seeing more!

Thank you. Something I'm learning (fairly quickly) is that each crawler chassis type builds entirely differently than the others. With off-road vehicles, it doesn't whether you're building a buggy, short course truck, stadium truck, truggy, etc...they all build almost exactly the same. The only truly noticable differences are between 2WD & 4WD vehicles.

I'm really enjoying the differences, and diversity, of the various crawler chassis. I can't wait (tho, I have to for another week) to start building the TF2, and (if I ever receive it) Twin Hammers (I say "if" because it, somehow, after arriving in California, send to have been 'diverted' to Japan).

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

Got an update: I F'd up something good. I ordered the 4-piece shock tower hoop kit (SSD00384), as opposed to the separate front & rear kits (SSD00355 & SSD00380). That, technically, wasn't where I F'd up. In receiving the package, I installed the rear towers, can and front-right tower, without any problems. It wasn't until I went to install the front-left tower...the one with the built-in panhard mount...that I screwed things up.

I realized that the inside piece (the original panhard mount) is where the tower's rear screw screwed into, so, using a Dremel, and a metal cutting disc, I cut the inside piece into two pieces...but, I completely forgot that the front screw screwed into the same piece. Obviously, DUMB move on my part...I readily admit my mistake.

I contacted Chris @ SSD, explained what I had done, and he presented to possible solutions. Since I preferred the extra-beefy structure of SSD00384...and because I don't have (or have access to) a 3D printer (which is needed if you go the SSD00355/SSD00380 route...I opted to go work the second option, which was to purchase a replacement panhard mount. Now that I know how I screwed things up, I also know what I'll need to do to correctly modify the replacement.

Anyway, that's my update...admitting that I screwed up, and how I screwed up. A HUGE "thank you" to Chris for his assistance in helping to resolve the problem I created. This is the difference between 'ok' customer service, and 'outstanding' customer service.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place