losi 2.2 dig transmission??.. plz help!!

[dieseldee]

Hey folks, I really could use some help. Ive gone through a lot of threads on the losi 2.2 dig and Im failing to find what I'm looking for, I blame it on my lack of knowledge more or less. A year or more ago I bought a losi NC as my first crawler. I fell in love with the rc off road/crawling part of the sport after that. I have built my losi and tore down and rebuilt it 10 times over. I love the thing but I've been through 4 dig transmissions, 3 of which had HD internal gears. Most of the time the rear transfer plate on the dig would eventually wear out. The last one had something that caused the rear shaft to bind up the trans. I d say a lot of it was and still is my shoty driving. None the less I'm interested to know if there is another after market transmission that will fit in the chassis of a losi 2.2 comp crawler that will also be set right for the worm drives. I'll be putting my goat 3s back in the rig once I figure this out... anyone know what I can do!!?????. Heres some pics also... everything is pretty much custom. Even put a tekin rs-pro and roc-412 brushless... it kicks ass on the rocks when at full speed, but with no dig it pretty much just looks pretty right now =(

[Olle P]

This is a big ??? to me...
You have the Night Crawler tranny. It does not have a dig function at all!

Perhaps you're meaning something completely different?

Dig = (Temporarily) Disconnecting the drive from front or rear axle.

[dieseldee]

Originally Posted by Olle P

This is a big ??? to me...
You have the Night Crawler tranny. It does not have a dig function at all!

Perhaps you're meaning something completely different?

Dig = (Temporarily) Disconnecting the drive from front or rear axle.

yep, after the 4th dig transmission I went through I was so mad that I slapped the losi NC stock transmission in it just to keep it in working order. I use this rig mostly for crawling around with guys who love to crawl but only have scx's and wraiths, as I have only just now finished my sxc build and did not have another shafty style rc 4wd yet... still a bit unfair though, lol.. but we are all good friends and no one cares to much....I'm just trying to find a transmission that fits the losi comp chassis that's not a losi brand dig unit. The pics were just showing the rig. Plzzzzzz tell me you know of a after market trans that's been proven and is geared for worm drives?? I'm dying to get her in comp condition again, sorry I should have made my post a little clearer in the fact that I'm looking for a dig unit to replace the losi comp 2.2 dig unit that fits in the losi comp crawler (grey frame as seen above,) or the losi Night crawler chassis

[KBrog]

Are those drive shafts telescoping? If not that could be part of the problem.

The LCC trans has been put through the test by many drivers and passed.

[90Finder]

Originally Posted by KBrog

Are those drive shafts telescoping? If not that could be part of the problem.

The LCC trans has been put through the test by many drivers and passed.

I saw that too and was also wondering about that. Post more pics of those driveshafts and how they work.

[dieseldee]

Originally Posted by 90Finder

I saw that too and was also wondering about that. Post more pics of those driveshafts and how they work.

yes, most definitely telescoping shafts.. they are hot racing shafts, I just use a solvent to remove the colored aluminum and logo as I wanted plan steel looking shafts... see, I'm with you guys on the losi dig being tested and proven to be legit. I and the whole crew of guys have seen all the YouTube vide, I'm not trying to knock losi at all, I love my losi!!!... that's why I said its probably my driving skills.... if any of you guys have a built big for sale let me know

[Olle P]

The only reason for the dig plates to wear out is if they don't fully disconnect from the drive while the dig is engaged.
The only reason for that to happen is not enough servo (dig shaft) movement.

[dentonmac]

Originally Posted by dieseldee

yep, after the 4th dig transmission I went through I was so mad that I slapped the losi NC stock transmission in it just to keep it in working order. I use this rig mostly for crawling around with guys who love to crawl but only have scx's and wraiths, as I have only just now finished my sxc build and did not have another shafty style rc 4wd yet... still a bit unfair though, lol.. but we are all good friends and no one cares to much....I'm just trying to find a transmission that fits the losi comp chassis that's not a losi brand dig unit. The pics were just showing the rig. Plzzzzzz tell me you know of a after market trans that's been proven and is geared for worm drives??

I do not know of any aftermarket tranny specifically for the Losi. You might (keyword - might) be able to get an AX10 tranny to work with the right gearing. I know those can be built to the hilt. I'm sure someone has tried it, but it will take some research. Then there are dig kits available for that tranny.

The dig plates are a consumable part on the Losis. They will wear out (especially the rear when front dig is used alot). Don't use the HR metal ones, metal flakes all over the gears. They are designed to work better, longer when the shifting is not under power.

I know you are looking for an aftermarket tranny (and after 4, I don't blame you), I am just surprised (and others as well based on the responses) because mine has been so good (definitely not with ROC power though).

Please keep us updated as what you find out.

Originally Posted by dieseldee

I'm dying to get her in comp condition again

Johnson City....Tennessee? You are just down the road from me.

The ETRC boys will be comping up in the Knoxville area next monthish. They have the regular pro and sporty class, but are starting a scaler class (run what you brung type) where I have been considering running a Losi Scaler with dig. Look in in the comp section, there is one early March at the Ocoee.

If you plan on comping (pro, sporty) I would highly suggest keeping the LNC tranny. If you plan to use dig, that would put you in the Pro class. The Losi is an excellent Sportsman rig (way underrated IMO), but you can't use dig.

If you are comping scaler, then dig is allowed under the new rules. But the Losi is not, I am getting clarification/more info on that. Here is the post by the ERTC folks.

Originally Posted by Harvo

OK guys... The mostly finished rules to the new class have been made public.

HERE they are. Build away.

Keep in mind ... ETRC is still going to allow a Run What You Have situation at our comps. The Specs for the new class will be what you need to work toward if you plan on running the class at national events.

ETRC WILL limit trucks in this class to dig OR rear steer. Not both. And we will not allow COMP style tires in this class.

[dieseldee]

P

Originally Posted by dentonmac

I do not know of any aftermarket tranny specifically for the Losi. You might (keyword - might) be able to get an AX10 tranny to work with the right gearing. I know those can be built to the hilt. I'm sure someone has tried it, but it will take some research. Then there are dig kits available for that tranny.

The dig plates are a consumable part on the Losis. They will wear out (especially the rear when front dig is used alot). Don't use the HR metal ones, metal flakes all over the gears. They are designed to work better, longer when the shifting is not under power.

I know you are looking for an aftermarket tranny (and after 4, I don't blame you), I am just surprised (and others as well based on the responses) because mine has been so good (definitely not with ROC power though).

Please keep us updated as what you find out.


Johnson City....Tennessee? You are just down the road from me.

The ETRC boys will be comping up in the Knoxville area next monthish. They have the regular pro and sporty class, but are starting a scaler class (run what you brung type) where I have been considering running a Losi Scaler with dig. Look in in the comp section, there is one early March at the Ocoee.

If you plan on comping (pro, sporty) I would highly suggest keeping the LNC tranny. If you plan to use dig, that would put you in the Pro class. The Losi is an excellent Sportsman rig (way underrated IMO), but you can't use dig.

If you are comping scaler, then dig is allowed under the new rules. But the Losi is not, I am getting clarification/more info on that. Here is the post by the ERTC folks.

I sent you a message.. and also like I said, the cause of the failures was more than likely a combination of shot driving, not fully extended dig servo arm, and I definitely noticed the hr gears leaving metal chunks in the trans which is what killed the last one. I'm trying to find out what trans the used for the "worminator" build...

[ghtpdm5]

the worminator 6x6's use a 1:1 version of the r2 trans, it can be found on the rc4wd site.

as far as dig plates, i have yet to replace them and the ones that came in mine bought off the classified here were worn. drop off the throttle a bit when hitting dig, and stiffen the springs up. the stiffer springs will help with the lock hop and letting off the throttle to let them seat is just a cheap and easy thing. some people claim that they don't lift with stiffer springs, but really, it becomes second nature with practice.

also take a look at the dig forks, they will have play in them for sure be it a new in box kit or used. the extra play in the forks affects the engagement of the dig plate in the outdrive. some epoxy or even a piece of pop can will shim them enough to take the play out and make the system smoother.

also want to check the arm tune, if you're not on center, you're going to have trouble. any chunk of 4-40 is direct bolt in for the stock arm, m3 will fit with a tap chased into the rod ends first. the arm to rod bit (dunno the real losi name) will also wear, causing the molded in bosses to degrade, so the arm moves in a more elliptical way than linear. this is an easy check, the arm mount shouldn't rotate on the rod, if it does, well, the fixes are numerous. i've actually played with stampede (traxxas 1942) ends as a replacement for the stock losi balls, and due to the fact you can engage the flats on the rod with the screw, it holds the piece better.

also, run as little lube in the trans as you can, all you need is a touch on the dig forks. any more, you slow down the movement and gum up the works. you can also take the sharp edge off the outdrives by gingerly hitting them with a file. this will "cut" the plates less than normal. also keep track of the bearings, the little 4x8's in the outdrives see a lot of cowbell when digging, far above what they were really designed for. these are the ones that are normally going to fail it you see internal gear or huge dig plate issues.

and that, in my eyes, is troubleshooting the trans on an lcc. its a bit more convoluted than the lnc trans due to extra complexity, but once you know how the beast thinks, you can kill any issues in it.

[GiJoe]

Originally Posted by dentonmac

I do not know of any aftermarket tranny specifically for the Losi. You might (keyword - might) be able to get an AX10 tranny to work with the right gearing. I know those can be built to the hilt. I'm sure someone has tried it, but it will take some research. Then there are dig kits available for that tranny.

I have tried the Axial trans with Losi Axles. NO GO at this station! LOL
I think even a direct drive set-up with an Axial trans is still too steep to be useable.

Originally Posted by dentonmac

I have been considering running a Losi Scaler with dig.

Do it! You wont regret it! PACK those axles full of grease to dissipate heat and keep out water, then run a Small Pinion (12T)! You'll love it!

[dentonmac]

Thanks for the info...and the encouragement!

[dieseldee]

Originally Posted by ghtpdm5

the worminator 6x6's use a 1:1 version of the r2 trans, it can be found on the rc4wd site.

as far as dig plates, i have yet to replace them and the ones that came in mine bought off the classified here were worn. drop off the throttle a bit when hitting dig, and stiffen the springs up. the stiffer springs will help with the lock hop and letting off the throttle to let them seat is just a cheap and easy thing. some people claim that they don't lift with stiffer springs, but really, it becomes second nature with practice.

also take a look at the dig forks, they will have play in them for sure be it a new in box kit or used. the extra play in the forks affects the engagement of the dig plate in the outdrive. some epoxy or even a piece of pop can will shim them enough to take the play out and make the system smoother.

also want to check the arm tune, if you're not on center, you're going to have trouble. any chunk of 4-40 is direct bolt in for the stock arm, m3 will fit with a tap chased into the rod ends first. the arm to rod bit (dunno the real losi name) will also wear, causing the molded in bosses to degrade, so the arm moves in a more elliptical way than linear. this is an easy check, the arm mount shouldn't rotate on the rod, if it does, well, the fixes are numerous. i've actually played with stampede (traxxas 1942) ends as a replacement for the stock losi balls, and due to the fact you can engage the flats on the rod with the screw, it holds the piece better.

also, run as little lube in the trans as you can, all you need is a touch on the dig forks. any more, you slow down the movement and gum up the works. you can also take the sharp edge off the outdrives by gingerly hitting them with a file. this will "cut" the plates less than normal. also keep track of the bearings, the little 4x8's in the outdrives see a lot of cowbell when digging, far above what they were really designed for. these are the ones that are normally going to fail it you see internal gear or huge dig plate issues.

and that, in my eyes, is troubleshooting the trans on an lcc. its a bit more convoluted than the lnc trans due to extra complexity, but once you know how the beast thinks, you can kill any issues in it.

so my best bet is to take all the trashed dig units and go through 1 by 1, salvage what I can from each, and try it again with the shim you talked about and the servo arm mods...

[ghtpdm5]

well, chances are they are just a bit rounded off, mine look like they shouldn't run, but run just fine. they're well under 50% stock.

the weak stock springs are a huge factor in how they lock up, some hardware store springs will perk them up for less than a couple bucks. a small spacer between the spring and the plate is a bandaid fix that may end in failure, a stronger spring or stretch the stock ones out (the free method, not ideal, but will work) is the answer. make dead sure you go over the 4x8's well, they tend to fail a bit more subtly than say a worm bearing failure. that's a lot of load in a little space, along with the speed of the roc you have in there. any play in the bearings can cause hell, and for replacement, the guys at fast eddy bearings have a kit. i'm a bit of a nut on bearings, my old thread has a bunch of stuff in the beginning.

the dig forks are also going to hit you hard if you're having problems, mine was getting a little sketchy one run, came home and shimmed the forks, has run well ever since. if i remember right, it was around .015-.020 between the rod and forks. with that, the arm mount nut on the rod was loose, meaning my bosses got a bit worn so the mount does rotate a bit, hence the experimenting with other methods. i have to update my current thread on that, just something i've been a little busy otherwise with.

the outdrives may be at fault here more than we would think, a small burr on the locking channel can eat the losi plastics hard. you're not aiming for heavy removal, just ease the edge a bit. its going to be a small machining flaw, i'd look at them with my 10x geo lens and then ease all of them if there is an issue.

[dieseldee]

Originally Posted by ghtpdm5

well, chances are they are just a bit rounded off, mine look like they shouldn't run, but run just fine. they're well under 50% stock.

the weak stock springs are a huge factor in how they lock up, some hardware store springs will perk them up for less than a couple bucks. a small spacer between the spring and the plate is a bandaid fix that may end in failure, a stronger spring or stretch the stock ones out (the free method, not ideal, but will work) is the answer. make dead sure you go over the 4x8's well, they tend to fail a bit more subtly than say a worm bearing failure. that's a lot of load in a little space, along with the speed of the roc you have in there. any play in the bearings can cause hell, and for replacement, the guys at fast eddy bearings have a kit. i'm a bit of a nut on bearings, my old thread has a bunch of stuff in the beginning.

the dig forks are also going to hit you hard if you're having problems, mine was getting a little sketchy one run, came home and shimmed the forks, has run well ever since. if i remember right, it was around .015-.020 between the rod and forks. with that, the arm mount nut on the rod was loose, meaning my bosses got a bit worn so the mount does rotate a bit, hence the experimenting with other methods. i have to update my current thread on that, just something i've been a little busy otherwise with.

the outdrives may be at fault here more than we would think, a small burr on the locking channel can eat the losi plastics hard. you're not aiming for heavy removal, just ease the edge a bit. its going to be a small machining flaw, i'd look at them with my 10x geo lens and then ease all of them if there is an issue.

damn bro, thanks for taking the time to help me with this issue, means a lot. Was worried about getting flamed for being a noob...
.... one last question.. I'm planning on putting a goat 3s system in the losi. Was in there before but I took it out and put a roc 1800kv in there.. goat 3s would do a little better don't you think???.. can't really use the goat for much more than worm drives given the crappy drag break on the system

[ghtpdm5]

the goat is a step down in a big way, sell it and walk away.

and no problem, you'll find the losi section to be a pretty friendly place, about the only things that would get you flamed are the things we see everyday more less like what lube, what battery, what servo...you get the idea. a lot of us have taken these things to some pretty different levels than stock...so kinda have to help each other out. that and its not the most friendly truck to just jump into, some do's, don'ts, and "you will roast it" things that many other axles don't see.

[dentonmac]

Originally Posted by dieseldee

.... one last question.. I'm planning on putting a goat 3s system in the losi. Was in there before but I took it out and put a roc 1800kv in there.. goat 3s would do a little better don't you think???.. can't really use the goat for much more than worm drives given the crappy drag break on the system

Originally Posted by ghtpdm5

the goat is a step down in a big way, sell it and walk away.

I can actually speak from experience now. While I do agree that it is a step down from the RS and ROC, I don't think it is as huge as I thought before. I got an almost new Goat 3s 18.5 combo in a lot I purchased and put it in my pro-shafty for giggles. It's not half bad, kind of noisy when not under load but smooth when you meet resistance, slow resolution is pretty dang good and peppy when I have a high C 3s battery.

Big note: It will NEVER (ever) replace my RS or MMP in my comp rigs, and if I was purchasing an esc it would not be on the list. But for just messing around no complaints...so far. No real rocks yet, but it does great over the cat, daughter, and sofa pillows. Ha!

They seem to be specifically designed for the Losi, so I understand the concession of 'since it won't work any place else...' BUT, the RS and ROC is a great combo for the Losi (I want to try that motor sooooo bad).

[ghtpdm5]

i've seen a lot of people running goats in losi's and while it may seem like the bees knees, it really isn't, mainly due to the esc.

more often than not, the esc will start to get the old novak cog to it. my theory is based on thermal stress on the electronic components that build the pulse circuits for the motor phases. while it may seem to run well at first, as things heat up (and repeated heatings multiply this) the fets running the switching start to slow down. heat in these components adds resistance, so they heat and heat until they are unable to switch effectively.

now this is true with all electronics, the novak board layout and component choice seem to just destroy themselves. compared to my tortured mmp that runs at 140-150 f at a pretty regular basis (i drove the thing to break parts for a while, and then high ambient temps), the goats just don't hold up. i drove next to a goat in high ambient, and when the esc started to get hot, the performance went downhill until it went into thermal mode for the rest of the day. the mmp was hot and did thermal on me, but it never skipped a beat. the goat had a fan, i removed mine.

i haven't driven next to an rs, so i really can't compare higher heat with that, but drove next to dual fxr's in a moa, and they held true the whole day.

[dieseldee]

Originally Posted by ghtpdm5

i've seen a lot of people running goats in losi's and while it may seem like the bees knees, it really isn't, mainly due to the esc.

more often than not, the esc will start to get the old novak cog to it. my theory is based on thermal stress on the electronic components that build the pulse circuits for the motor phases. while it may seem to run well at first, as things heat up (and repeated heatings multiply this) the fets running the switching start to slow down. heat in these components adds resistance, so they heat and heat until they are unable to switch effectively.

now this is true with all electronics, the novak board layout and component choice seem to just destroy themselves. compared to my tortured mmp that runs at 140-150 f at a pretty regular basis (i drove the thing to break parts for a while, and then high ambient temps), the goats just don't hold up. i drove next to a goat in high ambient, and when the esc started to get hot, the performance went downhill until it went into thermal mode for the rest of the day. the mmp was hot and did thermal on me, but it never skipped a beat. the goat had a fan, i removed mine.

i haven't driven next to an rs, so i really can't compare higher heat with that, but drove next to dual fxr's in a moa, and they held true the whole day.

took your advice and sold the goat 3s.. well sold the losi with it, but I agree, even though the goat has a "worm drive" setting it gave me more trouble than it was worth and has no place in any other off road rc's.. the ESC anyways..I'm my noob opinion that is

[Dad,Canyoufix?]

Running AE-2 axial esc with a 55t brushed axial motor, CC 10amp BEC and the reg losi mini servo for my dig on my LCC and its been just fine. Smooth changes and solid performance. I would have said try to find a LCC chassis diagram and see if you can find a mount or just anything different enough between the LNC & LCC to cause problems. Sorry to see it didn't work out for ya.