Brazing and/or Welding Alternatives?

[FireWire79]

I was just curious to see if there are any alternatives to brazing and/or welding. I live in an apartment, and probably will for a few more years and was wondering if there were any other options out there for me to do minor metal work with.

I know that brazing and welding provide extremely strong joints and are clearly the preferred way, but what about epoxies or something like JB Weld? Both of which are sandable and fillable. They cost less than getting started in either, and can be done with really almost no tools at your disposal.

It just seems that there should be some other options out there. The joints that can be made from brazing/welding are more than likely overly strong compared to what we need them for and a solid epoxy or epoxy like substance should be able to do the job just as well, provided you are willing to do some sanding afterwards.

I'm not going to lie, I have absolutely no metal working background at all. I use a crappy $15 dremel knockoff from sprawl-mart and it works fine for all the plastic manipulation that I do, oh, and some hand files. If you say, well brazing only costs like $50 to get into, I know this, plus all the metal that I probably waste trying to get things to look right, a tube bender, a new dremel that can cut through metal and grind off the excess compound on the joint, and I'm sure there are some other incidentals that I am missing, so it's like another $150+ that I'd rather not spend just to make a few small pieces.

Give me some options or opinions if you have tried anything else and let me know how it went. I don't need to be able to stand on my roll-cage for my RC, it just seems like overkill and I am trying to not spend too much more on tools and stuff so I can spend it on things that I need, like T-cases and electronics.

Thanks in advance.

[Blood_Clod]

I think the only way to get away with using adhisive type material is if you took a piece of tubing bigger than you cage and sleeved every joint and glue the sleeve to the cage. If you do you should mix glass beads into your oppoxy for strength. That would seem very time consuming, but...

[FireWire79]

Really, there is nothing else. Not even JB Weld, which is good enough for automotive repairs? Damn. I just don't really want to go and spend a bunch more money on stuff I'm only going to use once or twice. Seems to be the standard if you want to have a nice rig, just keep dumping cash into it. Go figure.

Any other ideas, feedback, suggestions would be more than welcome.

[Blood_Clod]

Originally Posted by FireWire79

Really, there is nothing else. Not even JB Weld, which is good enough for automotive repairs? Damn. I just don't really want to go and spend a bunch more money on stuff I'm only going to use once or twice. Seems to be the standard if you want to have a nice rig, just keep dumping cash into it. Go figure.

Any other ideas, feedback, suggestions would be more than welcome.

Why not just steer away from a tube chassis...? Or you can find a used twin vert plate chassis for cheap 30-60 bucks...

[C*H*U*D]

You could do a solid aluminum rod, bolt together chassis....all you would need is a drill bit, tap and a file. You can bend the rod by hand without fear of kinking as well, so you don't need a bender....although an inexpensive bender would help.

Just a thought:

[STEEL_CITY_CRAWLER]

or look at Zorlac's vendor threads.....

[Dabandit1]

.........machine shop
.........welder rental
Find someone in the neighboorhood with a welding unit and offer them a case of beer for a couple quick welds.

For the record Jb weld doesnt work on cars or anything for that matter its more for sealing exhaust joints and what not.

Or just buy one off the shelf lol

I dont think anyone ever said having a one off rig was going to be cheap,stick to what you can afford and handle....lots of nice kits on the market.

[bigbeise]

its really up to you... i believe jb weld is plenty strong! i made a cage from 3/16 steel rod and i cut it with a 5 dollar bolt cutter i bought. and if you build one you will prably build another this stuff is addicting! craigslist a 120 welder 60 80 bucks. i guarantee you will use it more than once so its not really a matter of what is the best way rather than what works for you just make it fun for what you have to work with and run with it!!!

[FireWire79]

Fair enough. If I could just buy the parts I wanted, then it wouldn't be a one off build now would it? I plan on making a cage and some fender-flares for the 1/6 Willy's build that I have waiting for me at home and am still convinced that there is a better way. Since I don't even know how to weld, I think the cost of a welder is irrelevant.

And C*H*U*D, great idea about bolt together. The funny thing is that I have an entire tap/dye set that should be able to do the trick very nicely. And since I will need just a cordless drill, which I also have, this may be the perfect alternative. Now I just need a tube bender to help get the angles right and repeatable and I should be good to go.

Did you do that Jeep tubing with just some hand tools? If so, do you have any additional info/pics on the process, such as trouble areas or anything that I wouldn't think of before I get cracking on that.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by FireWire79

Did you do that Jeep tubing with just some hand tools? If so, do you have any additional info/pics on the process, such as trouble areas or anything that I wouldn't think of before I get cracking on that.

I did all of the bends with a vise by hand. It's all solid 6061 so there was no concerns with kinking. Drilling the ends is easy enough to do with a hand drill and a drill guide.....similar to the ones JeepinDoug sells.

Here is my build thread (still have to finish this one ) if you wanted to check out how I did it.

.

[FireWire79]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

I did all of the bends with a vise by hand. It's all solid 6061 so there was no concerns with kinking. Drilling the ends is easy enough to do with a hand drill and a drill guide.....similar to the ones JeepinDoug sells.

Here is my build thread (still have to finish this one ) if you wanted to check out how I did it.

.

Thanks for the info. I wish I had some access to things like CNC machines and CAD based software. Oh well, that's what you get for working on the other side of the house in electronics, absolutely no mechanical knowledge. Such as life. Good to know that everything is pretty straight forward.

Quick question though, do I need to use a press with the drill guide, or can I do it with a hand-held? I know that a a press is better, but, I have what I have and there is not much I can do about it.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by FireWire79

Quick question though, do I need to use a press with the drill guide, or can I do it with a hand-held? I know that a a press is better, but, I have what I have and there is not much I can do about it.

The CAD and CAM was only used to make the frame rails, since I didn't have a chassis to start with.

Actually a handheld drill works better....you would have a hard time securing the rod when it has multiple bends in it. For straight sections, I used a lathe (could have used a drill bushing), but for the more complex pieces, I had no choice but to use a hand drill. For the fishmouths, I used an endmill, but could have also used a 1/4" file.....might not be as clean as an endmill, but will work just the same.


Here is another bolt together that I really liked, and you might find helpful.

[yjdavid]

i say go with brazing. theres a 25 dollar propane torch at home depot that will work, and brake line is like $4-5 for 5 foot lengths, i made a screen door roller bender for a total of like $10 dollars... for cutting the tube i use a tubing/pipe cutter, and a harbor freight belt/disc sander combo to notch crazy angles and such... all of which can be done with files

with the safety silv brazing stuff brazing is sooooo easy. and its true that once you get into it, you will be hooked and will want to make more stuff.

[FireWire79]

I thought the Bernz-o-matic torches didn't work for brazing? I'm pretty sure I read that on here, more than once even. My wife is going to kill me once I start lighting fires inside the apartment. If I had a house this wouldn't be so much of an issue, I'd just go out to the garage and use some real tools.

C*H*U*D, I'm not going to lie to you, the work you did on the first build you linked me is pretty impressive. If I had those kinds of tools and skills at my disposal, I would probably be building some crazy stuff too.

I'll try to be open-minded about the brazing issue, now just to convince the wife. For once she actually likes one of the builds that I will be doing. Go figure, a Barbie-sized Jeep would get her to pay attention. 'Bout time too.

Can I braze non-like metals together, mainly steel and copper? If so, this may be the only option for me, as I will have to make a few body panels to attach to the over-arch fenders I plan on making.

[Nate08]

Originally Posted by FireWire79

I thought the Bernz-o-matic torches didn't work for brazing? I'm pretty sure I read that on here, more than once even. My wife is going to kill me once I start lighting fires inside the apartment. If I had a house this wouldn't be so much of an issue, I'd just go out to the garage and use some real tools. .

Make sure you get the torch that has the mapp tip, not the regular propane one and you'll be fine brazing with that torch. I did this one in my appartment with this torch: http://www.bernzomatic.com/products/...did=BZ8250HTKC

Originally Posted by FireWire79

Can I braze non-like metals together, mainly steel and copper? If so, this may be the only option for me, as I will have to make a few body panels to attach to the over-arch fenders I plan on making.

Brazing is great for unlike metals. Nearly everything I build is some combination of brass and steel brazed together. If you want to try aluminum though be sure you get the correct filler and flux.

[yjdavid]

bernz-o-matic torches work fine, and it doesn't HAVE to be MAPP. MAPP burns hotter so it makes things go quicker, but propane is cheaper and will work, just slower. i would personally spring for the MAPP torch as well. I just got the self-lighting one, and it is easy as pie.


p.s. if its a torch, its fire/heat and it will work for brazing.