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Petition/poll ~ Keep bodiless rigs in Sportsman!!!!

Do you want keep bodiless rigs in Sportsman?

  • No, they're too scary.

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • Hell Yes!

    Votes: 210 82.7%

  • Total voters
    254
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If the powers that be are arguing to bring in new blood why are we making comps that only satisfy the top teir drivers.

I never once whined about guys having better equipment i argued that to get new blood in the sport you have to make it accesable to everyone. I am a member of this community just like you. I support the vendors, and the big companies just like you and my opinion counts just as much as yours. Just because it runs counter to your Ideal dosnt make it any less relevent.

"thumbsup" "thumbsup" "thumbsup" "thumbsup" "thumbsup"

And your comment about buying a win is neive at best. If you can win with a stock truck why did you spend all that time upgrading and tuning?

We upgrade because its fun and to stay competitive we have to, but only because everyone else is doing it too.

If you hand the top 10 drivers in every class a box stock version of what they drive now, I doubt that you'd see positions change very much. The top drivers would still be the top drivers.
 
This my personal opinion and does not reflect the State or clubs I represent.


National Level events are not for newbies. It's not the time to be babysitting or coaching new people into the hobby. That is suppose to happen on the local level through the local club and local hobby store. So creating a class for the primary purpose of drawing in new people possibly running stock RTR's at a National Level event sounds illogical to me. You don't see that happening in other sanctioned RC genres for national events.

Nationally sanctioned events are about finding the best on that given day. Even as a spectator, I would prefer to watch the best drivers and crawlers on that day, not a mediocre shafty class geared more towards entry level drivers. It just sounds silly you to enforce a rule in one class (no bodiless in shafty) and not it's big brother class (2.2 pro). The driveshafts and body are gonna make the shafty class really that much more relate able to the average person? Really?

Bodiless brought interest back to the shafty class along with solid vendor support. Had it not been for T1E Shafty Chassis and SDS Customz CVD's, I would have never built another shafty for competition. I know many of the people I represent in my state feel that way as well. It was the new bodiless design that brought interest to a class no one had genuine interest in before.
 
This is just a newbie question so be gentle with the flaming please"thumbsup"

I know this may sound naive and I know I am a noob but can someone please explain to me why 2.2 Sportsman HAS to be lumped in with 2.2 Pro all the time? Why can the community not make a whole new category? Obviously this would be held at different events then the normal 1.9/Super/2.2 Pro events but I think sponsors would present themselves for this.

Why can't it be done something like this? Make 3 classes with their own events apart from Scale or Pro events

1- 2.2ss (Stock sportsman) Rules would be a shaft driven crawler running only stock parts and batteries. This would include aluminum hop ups as long as they come from the manufacturer of the crawler. This would allow new drivers somewhere to run that they not only can be competitive but hone their driving skills while attracting big manufacturers to the party by wanting to have their name associated with having the best stock crawler out of the box.

2- 2.2ms (modified sportsman) Rules would be a shafted crawler. NO dig or 4 wheel steer. bodied or bodiless chassis. any steering configuration desired but only on 1 axle. Any motor/battery/esc wanted. Basically what is already in place.

3- 2.2us (unlimited sportsman) Rules would be anything goes more or less. This class could be what people are running in 2.2 Pro but the shafties only.
 
You are arguing my point. If the powers that be are arguing to bring in new blood why are we making comps that only satisfy the top teir drivers. And your comment about buying a win is neive at best. If you can win with a stock truck why did you spend all that time upgrading and tuning? Jake drove with the losi pin tires that are all the rage now for a very long while before they were available to the rest of us. Not saying it is wrong just stating a fact. And if you can say with a straight face that the top drivers are driving trucks that dont cost 1000+ you are just kidding yourself. I never once whined about guys having better equipment i argued that to get new blood in the sport you have to make it accesable to everyone. I am a member of this community just like you. I support the vendors, and the big companies just like you and my opinion counts just as much as yours. Just because it runs counter to your Ideal dosnt make it any less relevent.

The problem with your facts is that they simply aren't true.

Jake ran pin tires that he built himself. He (and I think Nabil) developed those by gluing pin treads to Comp Claw sidewalls. Sure, they got to test the Boss Claws before they were released, but that was more due to the R&D part of the process than to have some unfair advantage. The fact is that most of the time that they had pins before they went to market, they were making them themselves. That really isn't any different than the HB Khoas treads that I glued to Sedona sidewalls that I have on my berg. About the only time people had tires that nobody else could get were when Panther offered their drivers the super sticky cougars or when HB released their Sedonas to their drivers a month or so early.

You're so shortsited, though, that you see this as some sort of unfair advantage. Being a team driver and being handed a tire to run (wasn't it at Worlds '09?) isn't always a good thing. Personally, I hated the Sedona when I first ran it. It took alot of tuning to make it into the tire that I now like. If I'd received one of the first sets, I'd probably have performed worse because of it.

Unlike other forms of RC racing, you see quite the opposite in crawling. I'll use Krawlfreak as an example here. You can contact him and buy the same chassis that he ran at any number of national events. This is the exact same chassis that any one of his team drivers are using. Then, pull up his build thread and take a look at his exact setup used in different weather or rock conditions. He's shown exactly what components, electronics, length links, link positions, shock oil and springs, etc. You'll find similiar from looking at several of his team drivers' build threads, T1e's team drivers' build threads, etc. The attitude within this hobby is sooooo incredibly removed from the rest of the hobby in that regard.

Sure, there might be one or two products that a vendor or a couple drivers have that were too expensive or impractical from a vendor to produce in mass, but within this hobby, people don't keep secrets or hoard product like you're suggesting. What you're claiming as fact is a bold faced lie.

2nd point, you made was about my statement regarding truck to driver...You have to be able to comprehend the bigger picture before you can discount my statement about 85% driver & 15% truck.

First off, I'm not saying you're going to win with out of the box, stock, untuned crap. You still need a decent truck, but it doesn't have to be an exotic materials, one-off, all custom, 5lb, $2000 crawler.

Within my club, I could probably take my old sportsman (a 1st generation chump chassis with only a handfull of upgrades (servo, over under gears, and cvd's)) or the 2 year old, very basic moonbuggy berg and still win our Am class and probably beat about half of the pro class drivers. However, that other half of the Pro class is much closer in skill level to myself. And that's where the extra tweaks come in.

Still not all of those tweaks are necessary to win. I like tinkering and trying new things. Honestly, i probably have far less in my berg than most guys with similiar trucks, but I've also done alot of the work myself. I'm still not sponsored by anybody who provides me with unobtainable parts. However, I feel that I'm capable of competing with even the top guys.

It's really all attitude, and quite frankly, your defeatist attitude sucks.
 
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This is just a newbie question so be gentle with the flaming please"thumbsup"

I know this may sound naive and I know I am a noob but can someone please explain to me why 2.2 Sportsman HAS to be lumped in with 2.2 Pro all the time? Why can the community not make a whole new category? Obviously this would be held at different events then the normal 1.9/Super/2.2 Pro events but I think sponsors would present themselves for this.

Why can't it be done something like this? Make 3 classes with their own events apart from Scale or Pro events

1- 2.2ss (Stock sportsman) Rules would be a shaft driven crawler running only stock parts and batteries. This would include aluminum hop ups as long as they come from the manufacturer of the crawler. This would allow new drivers somewhere to run that they not only can be competitive but hone their driving skills while attracting big manufacturers to the party by wanting to have their name associated with having the best stock crawler out of the box.

2- 2.2ms (modified sportsman) Rules would be a shafted crawler. NO dig or 4 wheel steer. bodied or bodiless chassis. any steering configuration desired but only on 1 axle. Any motor/battery/esc wanted. Basically what is already in place.

3- 2.2us (unlimited sportsman) Rules would be anything goes more or less. This class could be what people are running in 2.2 Pro but the shafties only.

Mainly because its hard enough to juggle 1 extra class locally, never mind 3.

The run in into sportsman really isn't that hard, but I can see how the super experienced drivers would turn new members off. Everybody that is on this site and has comped has had to do it against better rigs and better drivers, yet we're still here and we're still growing.

An unlimited sportsman would be cool, but again, thats just another class we'd have to make room for that new blood would not take too much interest in.
 
This my personal opinion and does not reflect the State or clubs I represent.


National Level events are not for newbies. It's not the time to be babysitting or coaching new people into the hobby. That is suppose to happen on the local level through the local club and local hobby store. So creating a class for the primary purpose of drawing in new people possibly running stock RTR's at a National Level event sounds illogical to me. You don't see that happening in other sanctioned RC genres for national events.

Nationally sanctioned events are about finding the best on that given day. Even as a spectator, I would prefer to watch the best drivers and crawlers on that day, not a mediocre shafty class geared more towards entry level drivers. It just sounds silly you to enforce a rule in one class (no bodiless in shafty) and not it's big brother class (2.2 pro). The driveshafts and body are gonna make the shafty class really that much more relate able to the average person? Really?

Bodiless brought interest back to the shafty class along with solid vendor support. Had it not been for T1E Shafty Chassis and SDS Customz CVD's, I would have never built another shafty for competition. I know many of the people I represent in my state feel that way as well. It was the new bodiless design that brought interest to a class no one had genuine interest in before.


It reflects my opinion perfectly "thumbsup"
 
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This is just a newbie question so be gentle with the flaming please"thumbsup"

I know this may sound naive and I know I am a noob but can someone please explain to me why 2.2 Sportsman HAS to be lumped in with 2.2 Pro all the time? Why can the community not make a whole new category? Obviously this would be held at different events then the normal 1.9/Super/2.2 Pro events but I think sponsors would present themselves for this.

Why can't it be done something like this? Make 3 classes with their own events apart from Scale or Pro events

1- 2.2ss (Stock sportsman) Rules would be a shaft driven crawler running only stock parts and batteries. This would include aluminum hop ups as long as they come from the manufacturer of the crawler. This would allow new drivers somewhere to run that they not only can be competitive but hone their driving skills while attracting big manufacturers to the party by wanting to have their name associated with having the best stock crawler out of the box.

2- 2.2ms (modified sportsman) Rules would be a shafted crawler. NO dig or 4 wheel steer. bodied or bodiless chassis. any steering configuration desired but only on 1 axle. Any motor/battery/esc wanted. Basically what is already in place.

3- 2.2us (unlimited sportsman) Rules would be anything goes more or less. This class could be what people are running in 2.2 Pro but the shafties only.

It would be nice if that were possible. What it comes down to, though, is time. I try to make it to all of our local comps and usually also attend 9 or 10 other events through the year...so about 2 days a month (some are actual long weekends instead of just a day), and even with that, I still catch flack from my family for spending that much time away.

We discussed splitting our club comps into 2 seperate days, and what we came up with was that attendance would be poor at both. So, it's best to just pack what we can into one day, and make the best of it. "thumbsup"
 
Mainly because its hard enough to juggle 1 extra class locally, never mind 3.

The run in into sportsman really isn't that hard, but I can see how the super experienced drivers would turn new members off. Everybody that is on this site and has comped has had to do it against better rigs and better drivers, yet we're still here and we're still growing.

An unlimited sportsman would be cool, but again, thats just another class we'd have to make room for that new blood would not take too much interest in.

My first comp I was running against several people who compete nationally. I got my butt kicked and to be honest I LOVED it. It was just a joy to observe and learn what other people are doing and see how to read lines etc that I don't understand why losing to a better driver would turn people away.

I understand about juggling 3 new classes and the problems it would bring but to me (who runs a sportsman with a body) it seems like the only way to attract new people without alienating or making mad many of the people already involved.
 
It would be nice if that were possible. What it comes down to, though, is time. I try to make it to all of our local comps and usually also attend 9 or 10 other events through the year...so about 2 days a month (some are actual long weekends instead of just a day), and even with that, I still catch flack from my family for spending that much time away.

We discussed splitting our club comps into 2 seperate days, and what we came up with was that attendance would be poor at both. So, it's best to just pack what we can into one day, and make the best of it. "thumbsup"

Yeah I know how it was the last time we were at Ohio Pyle at the finals. I registered here before I registered there so in case you didn't know my W.Pa.C screen name is Tbone. I'm not a member until February so I just roll with it. If it was split into two different days there would have been no real point to doing it. There would have only been a dozen people each day. I am trying to get more of my friends involved in W.Pa.C but they all work 60+ hours a week and don't have much spare time.
 
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My first comp I was running against several people who compete nationally. I got my butt kicked and to be honest I LOVED it. It was just a joy to observe and learn what other people are doing and see how to read lines etc that I don't understand why losing to a better driver would turn people away.

My first time was the exact same way, though doubly so because I got my butt handed to me in two different classes on the same day. :ror:

But I came back, not just because I wanted to do better, but because of the people there that encouraged me and didn't make me feel like I was some schlub with a crappy rig that wasn't worth their time.

That was 3 years ago, and those same guys that encouraged me then and made the event enjoyable are still doing it for their newest members now.
 
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Yeah I know how it was the last time we were at Ohio Pyle at the finals. I registered here before I registered there so in case you didn't know my W.Pa.C screen name is Tbone. I'm not a member until February so I just roll with it. If it was split into two different days there would have been no real point to doing it. There would have only been a dozen people each day. I am trying to get more of my friends involved in W.Pa.C but they all work 60+ hours a week and don't have much spare time.

Competing against guys much better than you can only make you a better driver. It will happen out of necessity since typically they will be more challenging courses and cause you to strive higher than if competing against lesser drivers. "thumbsup"
 
Competing against guys much better than you can only make you a better driver. It will happen out of necessity since typically they will be more challenging courses and cause you to strive higher than if competing against lesser drivers. "thumbsup"


Yeah,your only as good as your as competition...maybe you houston guys would like us to come down for a few and help you out:flipoff:
 
My first comp I was running against several people who compete nationally. I got my butt kicked and to be honest I LOVED it. It was just a joy to observe and learn what other people are doing and see how to read lines etc that I don't understand why losing to a better driver would turn people away.


My first time was the exact same way, though doubly so because I got my butt handed to me in two different classes on the same day. :ror:

But I came back, not just because I wanted to do better, but because of the people there that encouraged me and didn't make me feel like I was some schlub with a crappy rig that wasn't worth their time.

That was 3 years ago, and those same guys that encouraged me then and made the event enjoyable are still doing it for their newest members now.

I think that just about everybody can relate to this type of experience at there first sanctioned comp. I know I did, and that was only about a year ago, and I can't thank all the guys enough for the help that I got then and for the help that I am getting still. Its like what somebody earlier said in this thread... Its how the veteran drivers treat the first timers, that is what is going to grow this hobby/sport. And its going to be done on a local level, not nationally. Sure at nats you may get more media coverage and maybe a fancy new big money sponsor, but as far as having growth in numbers, that is up to us!

Thats my
 
Dammit, I went and got myself all worked up again. :evil:

After all these pages, and all of this discussion, and all of the weak justification by committee members, this still feels like a reach around for corporate sponsorship in return for Nat's funding so a select few can have a bigger party while we shafty drivers are being made to clean up the mess.

I have seriously thought about little else these past few days. What is being proposed makes no sense and cuts valuable vendors and local drivers out of the loop.

IF you are hunting for corporate sponsorship, then say so. Do not play this weak ass plan off as something that will benefit everyone, because it will not.

Its still bullshit, it still stinks, and I am not ready to lay down and let it happen quietly.


:flipoff:
I can tell you that it's nothing like that. Jason and Fishmaxx don't even vote. No corporate asked me to vote one way or another. Our true thought was for the sport. So you don't need to be spreading any shit like this on the wall.;-)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevejr
My first comp I was running against several people who compete nationally. I got my butt kicked and to be honest I LOVED it. It was just a joy to observe and learn what other people are doing and see how to read lines etc that I don't understand why losing to a better driver would turn people away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude
My first time was the exact same way, though doubly so because I got my butt handed to me in two different classes on the same day. :ror:

But I came back, not just because I wanted to do better, but because of the people there that encouraged me and didn't make me feel like I was some schlub with a crappy rig that wasn't worth their time.

That was 3 years ago, and those same guys that encouraged me then and made the event enjoyable are still doing it for their newest members now.






I think that just about everybody can relate to this type of experience at there first sanctioned comp. I know I did, and that was only about a year ago, and I can't thank all the guys enough for the help that I got then and for the help that I am getting still. Its like what somebody earlier said in this thread... Its how the veteran drivers treat the first timers, that is what is going to grow this hobby/sport. And its going to be done on a local level, not nationally. Sure at nats you may get more media coverage and maybe a fancy new big money sponsor, but as far as having growth in numbers, that is up to us!

Thats my



I TOO AGREE IT'S ALL IN HOW THE "NEW GUY" IS TREATED WHEN HE IS JUST STARTING TO COMP, I HAVE JUST STARTED COMPING THIS YEAR AND IT HAS BEEN A BLAST FOR ME. I CAME IN LAST THE FIRST 3 COMPS AND NOBODY RIBBED ME ABOUT IT. I WAS ENCOURAGED EVERY TURN.
I PLACED 4TH LAST COMP AND FELT PREETY DAMN GOOD.
I ALSO HAVE BEEN TIMING THE LAST COUPLE COMPS AND WILL BE JUDGING SOON AS WELL.
LAST YEAR MY WIFE AND I WENT AND WATCHED OUR FIRST COMP PUT ON BY PARC AND IT WAS A GREAT TIME (THATS WHERE I FIRST GOT A LOOK AT A SUPER). I JOINED SARRCA THIS SEASON AND THEY ARE A GREAT GROUP OF FOLKS, AND I DON'T SEE HOW BEING MADE TO PUT A BODY ON MY RIG WILL MAKE THE EXPERIANCE ANY BETTER.
 
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Dammit, I went and got myself all worked up again. :evil:

After all these pages, and all of this discussion, and all of the weak justification by committee members, this still feels like a reach around for corporate sponsorship in return for Nat's funding so a select few can have a bigger party while we shafty drivers are being made to clean up the mess.

I have seriously thought about little else these past few days. What is being proposed makes no sense and cuts valuable vendors and local drivers out of the loop.

IF you are hunting for corporate sponsorship, then say so. Do not play this weak ass plan off as something that will benefit everyone, because it will not.

Its still bullshit, it still stinks, and I am not ready to lay down and let it happen quietly.


:flipoff:

I could care less about any corporate bullshit--really..

I am a very avid DIE HARD crawler guy. I help manage and run the largest crawler/scaler club in the state of washington. I also make every comp that we have.

I have no idea where this "appealing to anything corporate based" came from because thats simply not true and I am not here to bullshit anybody.

We are simply setting up a new national based class and one that has its limitations and more based on the old school setups.

If a driver is good they will drive "anything" good.
 
and one that has its limitations and more based on the old school setups.

I get it. We old schoolers had the most fun when we were starting out years ago before bodiless trucks came out (save the metal tuber), so let's make the class somewhat similar to the look and specs from the time period of our high point of enjoyment. :mrgreen:

And we need a 14'r class still. :mrgreen:
 
I get it. We old schoolers had the most fun when we were starting out years ago before bodiless trucks came out (save the metal tuber), so let's make the class somewhat similar to the look and specs from the time period of our high point of enjoyment. :mrgreen:

And we need a 14'r class still. :mrgreen:

I could care less what I would drive--I would still enjoy it.

One thing I have read in this thread is "great people at comps" and ours is no different.

Does it matter really what specs will be per class? Not really because a driver will have fun driving "and thats what its all about"...
 
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