e's ExMT

[John-e Bravada]

For ESCs use MT's. They are $15 each so the cost wouldn't be bad you'd just have to figure out how to control them. I love my GT3B but I couldn't even come close to runnning 4 ESCs:shock:

 

[Abavuso]

:mrgreen:

Every time I see vid of the Chainlink ( Chainlink extreme 4x4 Lizard - YouTube ), I think "what if you got rid of all that crap in the middle... and, all those people"

I'm betting 2 ESCs, for side to side speed and rotational control (on 2 sticks?)... combined with hundreds of degrees of steering... ought to lay a few Old Dogs to rest. Not sure anything else would ever be needed.

There are sure to be more elegant ways to do this, but all I need, short of wheels and tires... is in stock here. I tore the RC budget to hell the last couple months. It is best if I stay busy without touching cash for a while...

HUMMMMM...... That would be totaly sick!!! Not sure how functional it would be on a 5 min course though,unless you could use a gyro to help manage the articulation.

 

[ekd]

Here you go, this is what i worked up with the TAMIYA Gear Motors(380 size).

ratio 75:1 doesn't seam too bad... It would probly run a little on the slow side, but look how low the COG will with the motors sitting below the center line of the axle not to mention the ability to give mad clearance under the center of the axle. I wonder if I would be able to fit an HH 380 motor on these.

Now if I could only find a place to buy them without the wheels.

EDIT - I Mean 15in Track Width

You know, A... sometimes putting just 1 clue in your brain is like poking a huge wasp's nest. :shock: A faint noise at first... then all hell breaks loose. :mrgreen:

Hanging with you guys sometimes hurts my brain, but, one thing is for sure... it keeps it from rusting.

Think motor folded under the trans, and you'll see what I'm thinking... but A's would kick ass too. Anything to get steering, and get the motor close to the wheel so real power won't just twist stuff.

 

[ekd]

Just something to remember:

When the kids first brought FWD econoboxes to the strip, the laughter was long and hard... but... by the time those kids had the 7s solidly in sight... Nobody was laughing. 8)

 

[monkeyracer]

You guys make me want to get my idea going, but as E said, I'd better stay out of the bank account for a bit...

I'd be worried that 380 motors might not be enough, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to make 540 motors work (adapter plate and bored pinion)
I like E's idea about tucking the motor under the gearbox, but that's only happening with worm or bevel gears.

Anyone remember all the tyco RC's from back in the day, specifically the ricochet? It had dual motors (left side and right side) and was two stick controlled. Also the chassis was fully within the profile of the wheels so if it flipped upside down, you'd still be fine.
The basic function of the motor in hub would work with a two stick airplane radio, like the ricochet, but advanced features like independent steering (rather than skid steer - which would count as a reverse) and proportional dig would require some pretty crazy radio programming. The GT3B might be capable of it, but until mine (and T's) radio get here and I can dig into it, I won't be sure.

I want to build a scale-ish version of something like this:

But, instead with independent suspension, front and rear independent steer as well as skid steer for true 0 diameter turns. I'd only need 6 gearboxes (with 2 empty housings and pinions), 2 motors, 4 servos, two escs, and a lot of fabrication time.


One thing to worry about with any multi-motor vehicle is clod stall, and with 4 motors in the vehicle, you might have an open diff effect between the motors of the same axle.

 

[ekd]

I wanted a ricochet then, and would love to buy one for my Boxer. He wants so badly to slap the S out of the MT.

M, I'm so glad you are on T's radio. If anyone can max out the GT3B... it's you.

I was thinking about using idlers to adapt the drill trans'. The device most responsible for the direction my life took (Mid '60s Aurora Model Motoring pancake cars... I was maybe 10, and they were so new and cool.) had a long plate along the top. I am now leaning toward just making a trans from MT gears... the drill's is possibly too much overkill, even for me.

 

[ekd]

For ESCs use MT's. They are $15 each so the cost wouldn't be bad you'd just have to figure out how to control them. I love my GT3B but I couldn't even come close to runnning 4 ESCs:shock:

$60 for 4 is as good as it gets, and a brave soul has already proven out 3s. ;-)

I'm convinced (2) banks of 2, run as side by side would fix stall, and wouldn't need mixing if run by a pair of sticks. It will be a while, but I'll sure find out...

 

[ekd]

I can't find anything in USRCCA rules that mentions skid steer, or pirouettes. One could argue that it isn't the motor rotation that determines "reverse", but a movement of the rig in a backward direction. Loops to avoid reversing are cool... a skid steer is simply a tight loop.

One thing is for sure: If it takes a rule change to keep you from fragging the Old Guard, you are making real progress.

We may become... cumbersome... to this world.

If a 5.2" ID wheel is used, an MT trans will fit inside it, without mods. I'll post measurements of the gears, in a tighter cluster, soon.

If the purpose of comp crawling is to build and drive rigs devoted to the accurate covering of difficult terrain... we are in for some fun. If it turns out comps are for the selling of an exclusive group's parts, and the aggrandizing of a select group of guys... some of you will be in for some frustration... and I will laugh myself sick.

I'm betting on the former. And, I can't wait to see where it all goes in the near future.

Guys, read this, if you haven't already: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/superclass-crawlers/327188-super-bully-universals.html

Good news for the M/M (too much steering can be tuned out at the Tx, just enough is in our very near future), and an interesting consideration for the MIW concept. Wonder how being able to dig (or just reduce power) side to side might affect that tendency to tuck under the trailing wheels at extreme steering angles.

 

[JeremyH]

One could argue that it isn't the motor rotation that determines "reverse", but a movement of the rig in a backward direction.

It is neither. A reverse is called when any of the tires rotate in the backward direction.

 

[ekd]

Cool. Thanks, man!

All I could see as a problem was "▪ 7.1.6 - Reverse penalties are assigned at the Judge’s discretion if the actions performed by the
Vehicle/driver is not clearly defined by the rule."

Hear that guys?? We can skid, but they'll slap you for dancing!

Sounds fair as hell to me... and quite logical.

 

[JeremyH]

Hear that guys?? We can skid, but they'll slap you for dancing!

Sounds fair as hell to me... and quite logical.

If I am understanding you correctly, this is something that I used to be able to do with my super when I was running a twin stick radio. Both sets of tires turned one direction, front axle rotates forward, rear axles rotates backward. 0* turn radius. This maneuver = Reverse Penalty.

 

[monkeyracer]

I can't find anything in USRCCA rules that mentions skid steer, or pirouettes. One could argue that it isn't the motor rotation that determines "reverse", but a movement of the rig in a backward direction. Loops to avoid reversing are cool... a skid steer is simply a tight loop.

It's actually the first rule in the book:

1.2 - Back Up/ Reverse: (1 pt) point is given when a vehicle reverses course after making forward progress.
Reversing is defined as at any time if any of the tires move the vehicle backward or spin in the reverse direction,
whether engaged or in freewheel and/or whether intentional or not. Once a reverse penalty is given, no further reverse
penalty can be given until the vehicle makes forward progress. No penalty is given if the backward movement is part of
a penalized rollover. If a driver begins a course in reverse, a reverse penalty will occur immediately. (See Reverse
examples and explanations Sec. 7.1.)

If you use a dig style skid steer maneuver and lock up one side you are fine, but real skid steer has the opposite side tire rotate in reverse.

One thing is for sure: If it takes a rule change to keep you from fragging the Old Guard, you are making real progress.

We may become... cumbersome... to this world.

I've ruffled a few feathers on this forum and in this hobby about rules before in this thread and this thread. The end result was basically "we are the almighty rules makers, follow them or perish."

I don't think we are going to get the reverse rule modified to include skid steer. I'm pretty sure it came up in a discussion before and was squashed pretty quick.

If the purpose of comp crawling is to build and drive rigs devoted to the accurate covering of difficult terrain... we are in for some fun. If it turns out comps are for the selling of an exclusive group's parts, and the aggrandizing of a select group of guys... some of you will be in for some frustration... and I will laugh myself sick.

I'm betting on the former. And, I can't wait to see where it all goes in the near future.

the former seems to prosper. Ever hear about Jake from CKRC? He tried to bend the rules, won, and everyone chastized him pretty severely, even boycotting his products. He was trying to exploit a part of the rules that wasn't very clear at the time and was considered pretty widely as cheating, although it passed initial tech-in.

As much feathers as I like to ruffle, until the rule is changed, I still play by them in any sanctioned comps, so if I built something skid-steer capable, it stays a feature for my own enjoyment and make sure in a comp that one side is completely locked while skidding. (I had a Scale Rig with Dig that was easily locked out for comps, and unlocked for screwing around between runs. Eventually dig was allowed in Class 3 scale rigs, but I can't take any credit for this rule change.) I think we just need to build it, hold an exhibition comp that only provides a reverse penalty for when at least 3 wheels rotate in reverse, and show the crawling world what could be possible.

 

[ekd]

Yessir, you were dancing! I'm setting up for side to side control... different mechanics, same effect. I'm fine with the tire as the measure. It's elegant... fair, simple, and clear.

I'm just exploring twin sticks, and although I have little skill... for moments, sometimes, it feels natural. I've been pulling triggers for decades, but the sticks just feel right when going slow carefully.

"thumbsup"

 

[JeremyH]

Oh, twin stick radios are the perfect setup for a super. I just wasnt able to walk around while keeping the truck steady....so I switched.

Just keep in mind, if any of your tires ROTATE backward (whether or not this is intentional, or an unintentional "roll back"), you will be called for a reverse.

Ever hear about Jake from CKRC? He tried to bend the rules, won, and everyone chastized him pretty severely, even boycotting his products. He was trying to exploit a part of the rules that wasn't very clear at the time and was considered pretty widely as cheating, although it passed initial tech-in.

Haha....what he did was a bit more involved than just a body measurement. He "bent" that rule, then, as marshall of the event, ruled in his own favor and declared himself the winner. Oh, and there's the whole "kicking your truck while on course to help it up an obstacle" incident. :ror:

 

[ekd]

Yup. I missed it.

Let's call it "side dig". I am fine with the rules as is... but, I like the way you think.

I'm going to concentrate on getting rid of those damn toothpick shafts, so we can aim well, then really put our foot down.

It's actually the first rule in the book:



If you use a dig style skid steer maneuver and lock up one side you are fine, but real skid steer has the opposite side tire rotate in reverse.



I've ruffled a few feathers on this forum and in this hobby about rules before in this thread and this thread. The end result was basically "we are the almighty rules makers, follow them or perish."

I don't think we are going to get the reverse rule modified to include skid steer. I'm pretty sure it came up in a discussion before and was squashed pretty quick.

the former seems to prosper. Ever hear about Jake from CKRC? He tried to bend the rules, won, and everyone chastized him pretty severely, even boycotting his products. He was trying to exploit a part of the rules that wasn't very clear at the time and was considered pretty widely as cheating, although it passed initial tech-in.

As much feathers as I like to ruffle, until the rule is changed, I still play by them in any sanctioned comps, so if I built something skid-steer capable, it stays a feature for my own enjoyment and make sure in a comp that one side is completely locked while skidding. (I had a Scale Rig with Dig that was easily locked out for comps, and unlocked for screwing around between runs. Eventually dig was allowed in Class 3 scale rigs, but I can't take any credit for this rule change.) I think we just need to build it, hold an exhibition comp that only provides a reverse penalty for when at least 3 wheels rotate in reverse, and show the crawling world what could be possible.

 

[monkeyracer]

Haha....what he did was a bit more involved than just a body measurement. He "bent" that rule, then, as marshall of the event, ruled in his own favor and declared himself the winner. Oh, and there's the whole "kicking your truck while on course to help it up an obstacle" incident. :ror:

Yeah, he didn't handle the situation appropriately, but if he wasn't a marshall, and passed initial tech, then he would have been fine in my books, up until the foot-of-god maneuver.

...uhhh, kicking the rig to help it up an obstacle is clearly uncool, that should have counted as a touch and been reset to the previous gate. I don't want to get too into that situation here, but just used it as an example of someone that ruffled the feathers in an irresponsible way.

 

[Abavuso]

I actualy have my 2.2 rig set to rotate the front at 100% and the rear at 35% oposite direction. It used it to get out of some tight spots for 1 point vs the 10 it would have cost me. I don't think the rules would need changed slowing that becaues its mearly just another option.

Though on these super rigs, if we get to 80 degrees with 4 motors on the wheels, 4ws and killing the power to the inside rear will give you an on the spot legal turn.

E if you need help setting up a stick radio, I can help. I use a dx6i on my rigs primarily because I can get knock off recievers from hobby king for $6.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[asw27x]

if some one was going to build a super like that i would say use mini trans and motors

 

[ekd]

if some one was going to build a super like that i would say use mini trans and motors

Smaller scale MIWs have an enormous array of existing parts waiting to be adapted. Enormous.

Ittybitty said something I could not possibly agree with more:

"I'm thinkin low profile tires might be the next big thing with Supers! :twisted:". Not only do I see this as next to develop, but I'm waiting (unless I have to try it first) for someone to figure out that good bicycle shops have an incredible choice of treads and compounds to try... and that even an idiot like me could pull off a single cut, and one shut, per tire... at least half the time. :mrgreen:

A, I will need a bunch of help soon. First will be a Reverse Lockout... I'm still twitchy with sticks.

 

[BentMetaL]

Eric, got to IttyBitty's supah build. He has already made a set of low profiles that look sweet.