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The progression of my XR10 into a Berg.

I use bored out Bergs and some CKRC clamp ons. Never an issue, but lets just say the tolerances on the 300 axle products aren't well controlled as you yourself know thanks to the issues you had with shaft length already.
 
On my 300HD's in my Super with the Wraith knuckles I ended up using the shim provided with the shafts, and used paper shims to move the outer bearing out towards the pin so that the ring on the hex would bottom out on the bearing before the pin. The shims were ghetto made and John (SDS) himself kinda shook his head when he saw what I was doing :roll: I took the outer bearing and laid it on a piece of printer paper and cut the paper using an Xacto then used a hole punch to get the center hole...voila...paper shim :lmao: It worked and allowed me to run it at Nats...and they're still in there...
 
I always though the pin bottoming in the hex was ok. If the hex squashed the bearing, it would cause bearing failure.

Learn me the right way, I've always had knuckle/hex interference.

Yeah I find I normally have to shave down the backside of the hex more commonly. All my Berg experience and 300's the pin and all the pieces tended to allow me to tighten the wheel and cause a bit of binding on the bearing from overtight. Quick few passes on a grinder and all good and smooth.
 
Found out why my shafts are nice and sloppy....

Probably should have given them a better inspection before installing them.

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F1472D73-1C1C-4A4A-9D36-A57EFFFC1CD4-1686-00000132DB70300E.jpg


474FADA0-52B9-49D2-8758-CE20C4AD5A0D-1686-00000132EAFDB253.jpg


104FD353-6CB5-4874-A02A-4CCF34A3402A-1686-00000132F25D09D6.jpg
 
Also,

The "spacer" that comes with the axles is completely garbage. I don't know who or what thought process was involved in adding the spacer to the axles but if it is used it does nothing but create a loaded metal to metal connection between the shaft that spins and the knuckle that doesn't spin. It is effectively a thrust washer minus the ability to withstand a load of any kind for any amount of time.

Needless to say, I won't be using the poor attempt at a "fix" because it'll just cause more damage.
 
Complete replacment shafts going out in the morning. Just got home a little bit ago and saw your pm reply about the drive tangs. Im pretty sure its only one of the shafts, not sure what happend to it when the machinist made it though either way Im sending you a complete new set of shafts.


Also,

The "spacer" that comes with the axles is completely garbage. I don't know who or what thought process was involved in adding the spacer to the axles but if it is used it does nothing but create a loaded metal to metal connection between the shaft that spins and the knuckle that doesn't spin. It is effectively a thrust washer minus the ability to withstand a load of any kind for any amount of time.

Needless to say, I won't be using the poor attempt at a "fix" because it'll just cause more damage.


I guess Ill just start by saying that the "spacer" was a nessecary evil to get the shafts out sometime this year. It wasnt my fault though it was my solution. good or bad- I dont really care, cause if its installed proper and one uses a little bit of mechanical apptitude to cure any minor issue one has with there setup- well then they work perfect.

Lets say I decide to replace a wheel bearing and use the big hammer method of installion(apply as much torque as possible to the spindle nut as I can muster, with my whimpy frame) I then try and turn the rotor/hub assembly, to my surprise the damb thing wont turn, F'it im just going to put the wheel back on and run it- I'll call the manufacturer and bitch about the bearing:flipoff:

Put the damn spacer in between the big bearing and the knuckle, it wont lock up the bearing or anything else. If your hex pin slot is a little deep shave the back of the hex down slightly until it doesnt drag. Now its all like apple pie:shock:"thumbsup"
 
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I guess Ill just start by saying that the "spacer" was a nessecary evil to get the shafts out sometime this year. It wasnt my fault though it was my solution. good or bad- I dont really care, cause if its installed proper and one uses a little bit of mechanical apptitude to cure any minor issue one has with there setup- well then they work perfect.

Lets say I decide to replace a wheel bearing and use the big hammer method of installion(apply as much torque as possible to the spindle nut as I can muster, with my whimpy frame) I then try and turn the rotor/hub assembly, to my surprise the damb thing wont turn, F'it im just going to put the wheel back on and run it- I'll call the manufacturer and bitch about the bearing:flipoff:

Put the damn spacer in between the big bearing and the knuckle, it wont lock up the bearing or anything else. If your hex pin slot is a little deep shave the back of the hex down slightly until it doesnt drag. Now its all like apple pie:shock:"thumbsup"


I understand the reasoning behind the spacer. $h!t happens no matter what, I understand this more than anyone... What my comments you quoted are coming from is the lack of practical application of the "spacer fix". It works great if you loosely slap it together but if anyone with wraith/XR knuckles uses the spacer and clamps the bearings together with the hex instead of bottoming out on the pin, the aluminum washer will be acting as a loaded thrust bearing.

I installed it and as soon as I snugged up the wheel nut to the point where it didnt rotate on the hex, the bearings had way too much preload and they would have worn out in no time at all due to the high side loads because they were improperly loaded/clamped.

An acceptable fix would have been to have a washer with a 10.0mm ID instead of a 9.75mm ID which forces you to place it between the ID portion of the bearing (that spins) and the knuckle wall that the large bearing sits against (which does not spin). If it were larger it would have been properly placed between the large bearing and the stub shaft which would have been on a stationary joint and achieved the proper "fix". The other possible option is to do what I did, which is to use .3mm worth of 6mm ID and 8mm OD spacers between the small bearing and the stub shaft. Any more and the bearing got too much loading by the wheel nut and any less caused the pin to be loaded with the wheel nut.

The options are to use the spacer and create a connection between moving and non moving parts and hope the wheel nut when tightened down doesnt create too much of a bind. If the pin breaks, your wheel will more than likely stop spinning since the pin is the only thing giving the spacer a gap to a thrust surface. The other option is to use your own spacers with the correct diameters to achieve the same intended result as the supplied spacer but without the downsides.

If you would send out spacers to all the owners of these shafts with the correct diameter to function PROPERLY, your fix would be valid. As it is, you wasted money on a fix that only works when the wheel nut is bolted against the pin and the back side of the hex doesnt touch the smaller bearing.

Also, I used a 1/4" nut driver to tighten the wheel nut, the same thing I have used on my other 3 cars and not had an issue with except when I used junk hex's one time on my XR but since then, zero issues in 8 or so comps and hundreds of battery packs. You can imply that I dont have any mechanical aptitude if you'd like but keep it to yourself since you honestly have no idea who I am or what I'm capable of.

So, to follow up to your "just install it" comment; No. If it had the correct diameter then it would, but as it is, it's another useless washer to throw in the spare washers bin.

Keep in mind my comments are based on the fact that I'm asuming there is roughly a 0.25mm axial tolerance between parts. If there is a 0.50mm deviation, it could have a place on the far extreme end but it would still create a rotating metal to stationary metal connection.

"thumbsup"
 
By putting the smaller shims where you have there isn't anything keeping the joint centered with the kingpins, to keep it from binding during high angles of steering. There are over 100 sets of shafts running the shims with no issues and no steering binding. I'm not saying yours binds just saying it can, or has the possibility. Our knuckle bearings shouldn't have any preload as they aren't designed to have a side pre-load on them.

As stated before after this first run there won't be shims anymore so it really is a non-issue. They work when attention is paid to trim the hexes. I have 7 sets running In everything from scalers to my super. Two of the trucks pulled national championships this year, so the shims prob work fine. I'm just happy you found a solution that works for you
 
By putting the smaller shims where you have there isn't anything keeping the joint centered with the kingpins, to keep it from binding during high angles of steering. There are over 100 sets of shafts running the shims with no issues and no steering binding. I'm not saying yours binds just saying it can, or has the possibility. Our knuckle bearings shouldn't have any preload as they aren't designed to have a side pre-load on them.


The shafts have about .25mm of movement on the stub shaft at the knuckle. The tubes have a delrin bushing I made up to stop the shaft from moving into the tube and becoming misaligned either fore/aft or left/right. It's not perfect by any means but it does work and it does function smoothly for a full 60 degrees of angle. I plan to make one or two spacers (whatever it actually requires) when the new shafts get here. I'll finish up the 7075 hex's at that time too.

The biggest thing to keep in mind when steering a universal joint shaft to the extremes is that there is a LOT of deviation in the wheel's rpm and whenever it is turned to the limits, you risk damage.
It will be one of those things that gets used only as required, not when it's possible.


As stated before after this first run there won't be shims anymore so it really is a non-issue. They work when attention is paid to trim the hexes. I have 7 sets running In everything from scalers to my super. Two of the trucks pulled national championships this year, so the shims prob work fine. I'm just happy you found a solution that works for you

If you have to trim the hex's in order to use the spacer, why was that not mentioned anywhere?

Care to clarify this statement "the shims prob work just fine"? More importantly, aside from your personal vehicles, how many people ran these shafts AT nationals with the spacer you provided (9.75x11.85x0.64mm)?
 
More importantly, aside from your personal vehicles, how many people ran these shafts AT nationals with the spacer you provided (9.75x11.85x0.64mm)?
I'm not sure if the shim is the same or not, but I ran them in my XR at nats and quite a number of times since then without issue.
 
I ran them in the front and rear of my Super at Nats without issues.


BTW...your truck's looking good "thumbsup" Although I do wonder why you chose to use such a large diameter material for your upper links?
 
And another note, not every hex has to be trimmed, just like anything else hexes change depending on manufacturer. My hexes from a scx10 kit bolted right on. Took me all of 5 seconds to realize my berg hexes were bottoming out.

Sounds like your really unhappy with your shafts which is a bummer, I'd probably send them back and get a refund. I heard those dog bones get good steering when modified....
 
BTW...your truck's looking good "thumbsup" Although I do wonder why you chose to use such a large diameter material for your upper links?

Thanks!

It's what I could get. It's around the same weight as titanium and I know it wont bend so that's why they are what they are. I would love to have something smaller and just as strong but I haven't seen where to get anything that fits the bill just yet. It's 1/4" x .065" wall 6061 tube with 7075 4mm threads in the ends. I have some 2024 that I'm thinking about turning the OD down on and remaking them but I'm not that bored yet. :shock:

Sounds like your really unhappy with your shafts which is a bummer, I'd probably send them back and get a refund. I heard those dog bones get good steering when modified....

I'm not "unhappy" with the shafts. I think the shafts are great considering there is nothing else out there that allows the functionality that these do. The experience on the other hand, has been less than desirable but if that's how it's going to be, it is what it is.

But, it is pretty funny hearing comments like this from vendors.... Put yourself in my situation with $400+ "spent", 4 months later I'm on the third set of shafts due to no fault of my own. Now go be a dick to your customers some more, I hear it's great for business. "thumbsup"


Pics of the skins look great"thumbsup"

Thanks! You did a great job! :mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
If you have to trim the hex's in order to use the spacer, why was that not mentioned anywhere? I guess that it seems really simple in my mind and that common sense would have said when you tightened up your wheel nut and it got tight to check it out. I have had several sets(none of which where mine) that guys didnt have to trim there hexes. I used to write fairly detailed directions for installing. I get less pms now then I used to when I included them. At some point I guess I decided to just build parts and quit hand holding. If someone can figure out how to take the axle apart and put in the new ones great if not they will pm me. Besides you dont strike me as the kind of guy that would have read the directions even if I had included them. Hell I never do. the packaging and directions all end up in the round file, and I just build.

Care to clarify this statement "the shims prob work just fine"? More importantly, aside from your personal vehicles, how many people ran these shafts AT nationals with the spacer you provided (9.75x11.85x0.64mm)?[/QUOTE]

I would say approx. 20 sets where ran at nats. no issues. Nice lookin build by the way
 
But, it is pretty funny hearing comments like this from vendors.... Put yourself in my situation with $400+ "spent", 4 months later I'm on the third set of shafts due to no fault of my own. Now go be a dick to your customers some more, I hear it's great for business. "thumbsup"

It's amazing how things can get taken the wrong way on the internet via posts while having mixed emotions about a topic.

Being a dick and trying to lighten the situations has obviously gotten mixed up.

I understand how much it sucks to get the wrong parts and I also know how much it sucks to send out the wrong parts because of a machinist error.

John, like myself pays someone to make the shafts and works a 40+ hour job on top of it. It makes it hard to test and eyeball every issue. Having you get 4 wrong items after having parts from the same batch be fine hurts john just as much as it aggravates you.

Having only seen your post I see very negatives posts, whether fair or valid, and John trying to get the issues fixed, even when done so he still gets ragged. I don't think I read anything good about your purchase. It sucks as a vendor to go through all this, try to get it fixed and still look relatively bad on the forums. Makes it alot easier when the customer can see both sides.

I'm not saying praise him, or think you should be pretending to be happy. Both of you got the poop end of the stick, but at the end of the day, he tried to make it right. I know first hand alot of vendors would have refunded your money or blew you off. It's happened to me.

If your offered by my comments it's not my intentions. I've been viewing your build because it's very similar to mine and has turned out very nice.

(written on iPhone, sorry if misspelled)
 
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