2013 Rules

[Hardline]

Para 1.5 says:

"Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled by the vehicle, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker."


Now this is way cool because in 2013 we can straddle a gate without penalty but according to the above, once straddled there can be no more gate penalties. Think of the possibilities. :ror:

 

[JeremyH]

Para 1.5 says:

"Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled by the vehicle, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker."

Now this is way cool because in 2013 we can straddle a gate without penalty but according to the above, once straddled there can be no more gate penalties. Think of the possibilities. :ror:

On that specific gate only...the other side is still live. "thumbsup"

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Para 1.5 says:

"Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled by the vehicle, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker."


Now this is way cool because in 2013 we can straddle a gate without penalty but according to the above, once straddled there can be no more gate penalties. Think of the possibilities. :ror:

If you read the 2013 rules, the word straddle has been takin out."thumbsup"

 

[Hardline]

If you read the 2013 rules, the word straddle has been takin out."thumbsup"

I would have sworn I copied the rule out of the 2013 link in post #1. But it doesn't say that now. Nevermind.

 

[Shaunkjar]

I think I caught an edit that needs to be made. In reading about the body specs for my shafty I found that 2.5.6 refers you to 2.3.6 which gives body sizes for 2.2 Pro when the body sizes for shafty are posted in 2.5.8

If I were editing, I would remove "(See Sec. 2.3.6)" and replace it with "(See Sec. 2.5.8)"

Hope it helps! I would much rather run the smaller body and was really excited to see it but the clarification given in 2.5.8 was enough for me to spot the typo.


▪ 2.5.6 - Bodied Vehicles only. (See Sec. 2.3.6) Bodiless vehicles are prohibited.

▪ 2.3.6 - Vehicle body/ bodiless measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.

▪ 2.5.8 - Bodies must be 3” minimum height on sides. No less than 12.5”
total length and full original width, and no less than 5” in center.

 

[Erik D_lux]

I am trying to understand the rules a bit better and I could use some clarification. If somebody could help, I would appreciate it.

1.12 - Course Direction (10 pts) Gates must be cleared in their intended direction and sequence. Any part
of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction, or driven through out of sequence will result in a 10 point penalty. The judge will stop time. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Once the gate is cleared and awarded progress it can be traveled in any sequence or direction.

Pulled from above
"Any part of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction"

We have determined that you CAN straddle a gate and then back up (technically entering the wrong way) and position the tire that did NOT go through the center to the entry point of the gates and then progress getting all 4 tires between the gates and get "progress/no gate".

So, my question is, at what point are you considered "entering in the wrong way"?

Do you only need to break the gate plane in the correct way and then you can enter in the "wrong" way as long as you progress in the correct direction?

How does the rear axle play a part? Can you enter with your front in the correct direction and then you are allowed to enter the "wrong" way with your rear or do you have to enter with the rear the correct way before you can enter with your rear the "wrong" way?

I hope that makes sense.

 

[ROWDY RACING]

You can at no point enter an unprogressed gate in the unintended direction, only after progress has been made can gates be traveled in either direction.

 

[WAM]

I think his question was what is considered another entry, once an initial entry has occurred.

What we do locally is say the initial entry is the only entry until the rig has completely cleared out of the gate. Whether progress or no progress. So you can saw back and forth trying to clear the gate. But once completely outside the gate that entry has "expired" and now you have to enter from the proper direction if still looking to progress.

So passing thru via front straddle and both rears outside the markers would put the vehicle back outside the gate. No penalty, but you can't back in to try again. Obviously our local interpretation isn't official...just makes sense to us.

 

[Erik D_lux]

You can at no point enter an unprogressed gate in the unintended direction, only after progress has been made can gates be traveled in either direction.

What youre saying would mean what I quoted myself saying below, illegal.

We have determined that you CAN straddle a gate and then back up (technically entering the wrong way) and position the tire that did NOT go through the center to the entry point of the gates and then progress getting all 4 tires between the gates and get "progress/no gate".

I think his question was what is considered another entry, once an initial entry has occurred.

Correct.

What we do locally is say the initial entry is the only entry until the rig has completely cleared out of the gate. Whether progress or no progress. So you can saw back and forth trying to clear the gate. But once completely outside the gate that entry has "expired" and now you have to enter from the proper direction if still looking to progress.

So passing thru via front straddle and both rears outside the markers would put the vehicle back outside the gate. No penalty, but you can't back in to try again. Obviously our local interpretation isn't official...just makes sense to us.

I suppose that would make sense but, its no where in the rules that I can find and I hate just making up stuff to make it work. I feel there should be a reference to fall back on. If somebody were to attempt a gate in a certain fashion and I were to call a penalty without any facts, I think that is incorrect.

I would also need a definition of "completely outside the gate" would mean. With a super, it is not only 100% possible to drive the fronts clean, get "completely outside the gate" and get the rears through clean all in one smooth shot.

 

[ROWDY RACING]

Difficult to totally get what your saying, pics or a vid may help.
I can't think of any situation where my first reply wouldn't be the case.

 

[Erik D_lux]

I have a vid of the situation that we had at a comp. I want to get input on the idea first as I think the vid will confuse things at first and a lot of people will say "illegal" simply because they dont like it or it does not seem it should be right.

 

[WAM]

I suppose that would make sense but, its no where in the rules that I can find and I hate just making up stuff to make it work.

Heh, that used to bother me too. But there were too many possible circumstances not crystal clear by the rules. And Fishmaxx and crew were just issuing what I think are opinions based on their experiences. So I finally got over it. If the rule isn't clear, judge's call.

I would also need a definition of "completely outside the gate" would mean.

My definition is an aerial view. Looking down, is the entire vehicle clear of all gates and the rectangular space between them.

 

[ROWDY RACING]

I have a vid of the situation that we had at a comp. I want to get input on the idea first as I think the vid will confuse things at first and a lot of people will say "illegal" simply because they dont like it or it does not seem it should be right.

Post it, I am interested and will look at it with an open mind.

 

[BC-Brian]

Para 1.5 says:

"Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled by the vehicle, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker."


Now this is way cool because in 2013 we can straddle a gate without penalty but according to the above, once straddled there can be no more gate penalties. Think of the possibilities. :ror:

Post it, I am interested and will look at it with an open mind.

I'm also curious to see what happened.

 

[Olle P]

My personal interpretation is that you "enter" when some/any part of the crawler cross the line.
Then to enter again the entire crawler must be off the line.

In the example of straddling and backing up the crawler enters the gate in the correct direction and then (typically) doesn't leave the gate until after backing up.
If you cross the line with a front wheel during a turn from the outside and continue so that no part of the crawler is in the gate (as shown below) then backing up the same way will be considered entering from the wrong direction.

 

[JeremyH]

In the example of straddling and backing up the crawler enters the gate in the correct direction and then (typically) doesn't leave the gate until after backing up.
If you cross the line with a front wheel during a turn from the outside and continue so that no part of the crawler is in the gate (as shown below) then backing up the same way will be considered entering from the wrong direction.

How is backing up considered "entering in the wrong direction"?

If you only get one tire through the gate you show in that picture, then it is not progress.

 

[Olle P]

How is backing up considered "entering in the wrong direction"?

If you only get one tire through the gate you show in that picture, then it is not progress.

"Progress" is a totally irrelevant subject here.

What I describe with the picture above is that...
... one wheel has ENTERed the gate (in the intended gate direction), and then EXITed on the other side. (And I assume that the gate marker is still untouched.)
No part of the vehicle is currently inside the (live) gate.
If the driver hits reverse, backing up the same way, that front wheel (being a part of the crawler) will again ENTER the gate, but now from the wrong direction.

To me it doesn't matter what part of the vehicle enters the gate first, only the direction of entry. The key issue here is that at the moment visualised in the picture NO PART OF THE CRAWLER IS INSIDE THE GATE.
It could just as well have been driven there passing on the outside of the marker. If the front wheel follow the green arrow in through the gate it will be a direction penalty.

 

[JeremyH]

If the driver hits reverse, backing up the same way, that front wheel (being a part of the crawler) will again ENTER the gate, but now from the wrong direction.

No, the gate has already been entered.

And yes, progress is completely relevant here.

 

[JeremyH]

How does the rear axle play a part? Can you enter with your front in the correct direction and then you are allowed to enter the "wrong" way with your rear...

I would say no and would call that a course direction if I saw it.

 

[ittybitty]

I see what Olle P is saying about the tire coming back through the gate, but the catch here is that the crawler did ENTER the gate so it is currently "making an attempt". If the crawler was to pass along side the gate and then reverse the front tire between the gate markers...basically pretend the crawler in your picture was placed there and then reversed with the front tire following your green line...that would be a direction penalty because you have ENTERED the gate from the wrong direction.

If you are attempting a gate on a ledge with both front tires between the markers and the crawler takes a bounce or loses traction and slides backwards that IS NOT a direction penalty. Does that help clear up the difference?