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Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

Duuuuuuuude said:
I'm not typing it out on my phone. If you want a comprehensive list, you'll have to wait until tonight when I get to my computer.
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Why don't people listen?!? I said "name ONE thing". C'mon, what's your biggest objection? If you have to wait until you get home to your computer, that tells me that you are probably stalling for time until you can research everybody else's reasons for not believing. I couldn't care less about theirs, and if you do then you're just looking for excuses to not believe. What's YOUR main beef with the God of the Bible? Let's talk about that.
 
Why aren't you listening? I gave you an example. If you want further explanation, you'll have to wait until I'm not having to fat finger a reply out on my phone.
 
Duuuuuuuude said:
Why aren't you listening? I gave you an example. If you want further explanation, you'll have to wait until I'm not having to fat finger a reply out on my phone.
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"Historically and scientifically" is not an example, it's 2 very broad categories. I assume the "wrong God" comment was just mocking? Otherwise, who is the right God?
 
StomperCrawler said:
"Historically and scientifically" is not an example, it's 2 very broad categories. I assume the "wrong God" comment was just mocking? Otherwise, who is the right God?
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The burden of proof is on those making ahistorical and illogical claims. You are the one who must offer proof.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
StomperCrawler said:
Why don't people listen?!? I said "name ONE thing". C'mon, what's your biggest objection? If you have to wait until you get home to your computer, that tells me that you are probably stalling for time until you can research everybody else's reasons for not believing. I couldn't care less about theirs, and if you do then you're just looking for excuses to not believe.
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"I am not convinced" requires no justification. I can point to the absurdities of a given religion as reasons, but still, I cannot consciously choose what I believe.

Perhaps you should care about what others say about your beliefs. Do you not care if your beliefs conform with reality or not?
What's YOUR main beef with the God of the Bible? Let's talk about that.
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The 'God' character in the bible or the bible itself? Given that each religionist will have their own interpretation of their particular holy book, I avoid taking on any given text, but instead focus on the religionists' interpretation of said text. That way I don't have to get bogged down in versions, translations, etc.

For fun I have taken on the 'Earth is immovable' claim in the bible, pointing out that the Earth does not only move, but rotates, changes in rotation speed, precesses, wobbles, is affected by the mass of the moon and the other planets in our solar system, and that its orbital speed has even been altered (albeit a tiny amount) by scientists using the Earth as part of slingshot orbits for spaceships.

To which the religionist responds that the writers of the bible meant that the Earth stays pretty much within its orbit and does not fly out into space away from the Sun or move among the other planets. Ya right. :D

But to answer your question, I will return to the challenge that I put to you earlier, to which you have still not directly responded.

You claim that the bible states that we can freely choose what we believe, but it seems that you cannot even demonstrate that to yourself.
 
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I cannot believe healthy adults believe the Bible is non fiction, I guess Santa and the Easter bunny are real too?
 
Why don't people listen?!? I said "name ONE thing". C'mon, what's your biggest objection?
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Ok, I'll play. I could provide you a long list of examples, but one that most people are familiar with is the story of Noah's ark. How could anyone believe the story is anything but fiction? I've even heard little children question how Noah could manage to round up all the species on earth (conservatively of which there are 2 million) then fit them in his ark?

But as an engineer what interests me more is the ark design and construction. Even using modern design methods it's been shown countless times that at 300 cubits (450ft) long, a boat made from gopher wood (aka pine) would not be structurally strong or rigid enough, and once floated (if it actually floated even when empty) would twist, bend and buckle until catastrophic failure. Assuming it didn't completely split in two and sink the moment it became buoyant, it would have leaked so badly the people on board would have been fully occupied manning bilge pumps.... if they actually had means to pump out the water.

Even using the most conservative estimates of the number of animals that were loaded on the boat, the combined weight of said animals would have meant the ark would have had water lapping at the top of the gunnels. Not an ideal scenario for a leaky boat about to set sail for 40 days of stormy weather, then another 300+ days of open ocean sailing.

I probably don't even need to ask how other complexities were overcome, like where Noah sourced and milled all the wood for the ark, how long it would take Noah to build the ark based on known technologies of the time, how Noah managed to keep animals fed and alive on a boat for over a year. If I recall also, wasn't Naoh supposedly 600+ years old when the ark was finally finished? Yeah that point alone makes me think the story has a whole heap of credibility....

I know I'm nit picking just a few minor inconsistencies and technical difficulties in the story, but I guess if a rational and pragmatic person believes this event actually took place as described in the bible, then there's a good chance they might believe the multitude of other nonsensical and irrational stories written in that book too. I guess if you believe in magic, ignored the laws of physics, engineering and science principles, dismissed common sense then were blinded by ignorance and faith..... just about anything is plausible I suppose.
 
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StomperCrawler said:
"Historically and scientifically" is not an example, it's 2 very broad categories.
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I will make this as quick and as complete as I can without writing a book.

Historically, many of the events in the bible do not jive with events noted from other civilizations that existed at the same time around the world.

The easiest example would be the worldwide flood. If it were true, there would be no records existing from before that time. But there are. Point of fact: the Japanese civilization is know to have existed since at least 10,000 years prior to the flood was thought to have taken place (6000-4000 bc). They have no written record of such an event, and there is no genealogical break in their heritage. If there was a flood, whoever was there would have obviously been washed away and eventually replaced with a different line of people.

Another would be David & Solomons kingdom. If it were as large and as powerful as was described, there would at least be an acknowledgement of it in the surrounding areas, either through traders, armies, or governments. There is none. Zip. Nada.

Scientifically, it's hard to pick one that hasn't been thoroughly hashed out to death. The flood is again an easy target. Creation of man is another. If theories and their supporting data were books, evolution would be a library. Creation would be an easy weekend read.

StomperCrawler said:
I assume the "wrong God" comment was just mocking?
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I will happily and unapologetically mock the Abrahamic god all day long, because the accounted behavior of said god is more in line of what one would expect from the Egyptian god-kings from that era, and not the "omni" qualities that were given (which would be required of such a being). And really that is no surprise because A) Abraham served at least one of those god-kings, and B) Judaism was born out of Egyptian mythology, which at times was in fact monotheistic.

God, as his actions are written, behaves highly amoral and at time highly immoral. Consider Job. What kind of god would put his most faithful servant through such an unimaginable amount of misery just to win a bet?

Each tree is known by it's fruit (Luke 6:44), and, a good tree can not bear bad fruit (Mat 7:18 ). By all biblical qualifications, we are bad fruit. Since we are made in Gods image (Gen 1:27), logic follows that God is not as good as is claimed.

All religions are mythology to me, and gods are simply characters in their respective stories. I mock them all.

StomperCrawler said:
Otherwise, who is the right God?
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I don't know, and I don't believe that there is any way to know. Such a thing would be many orders of magnitude beyond our ability to comprehend and correctly recognize. Such a thing could not be contained and adequately described on paper.
 
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ROWDY RACING said:
I guess Santa and the Easter bunny are real too?
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Santa, yes, the Easter bunny, I believe was made up by the greeting card and chocolate companies to boost profits.

Santa is alive and well in all of us, at that time of year when we give gifts to our loved ones, or help out those in need "thumbsup", unless you happen to be a Scrooge :lmao:
 
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills."

- Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long," from Time Enough for Love (1973).
 
DavidH said:
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills."

- Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long," from Time Enough for Love (1973).
Click to expand...


It's not impossible to have all three simultaneously, but it's impossible to have all three simultaneously in any of our known religions.
 
btw, what happened to Stomper? He was so adamant about getting an explanation out of me, and then he disappears...
 
Yes, The Nasa did lie I believe they never been the moon. However I am not here for debating. I am here to sharing love and the Gospel ( The good news of Jesus Christ ) ;-)
 
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