The existence of a thing is not evidence of its origin.
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Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?
- Thread starter GREEDY GENIUS
- Start date
The existence of a thing is not evidence of its origin.
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
If a Christian commits murder, the book of James in the New Testament tells us that there's a good chance that person isn't actually a Christian, in which case they would not be going to heaven.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
The same 'creation' that is evidence of the process of life beginning billions of years ago, that there was no literal adam and eve, that there was no biblical global flood, that we and the other animals are not descended from a handful of surviving individuals?
I don't know. I am guessing that if I found out tomorrow that it wouldn't affect the price of milk at the market, or compel me to attack those that had come to a different conclusion.
Big bang cosmology explains what followed the instantiation of the cosmos, not its origins. Are you an astrophysicist? I'm not.
I do not hold any beliefs on this subject.
Sure. As I don't have a horse in this race, I'll look to you to explain where your god came from. How long did this 'eternal' thing wait until it created the universe? Where was it before? And how did it do it?
Spare no details.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
Why then did Dahmer go through the bother of getting baptized?
The religion of Jeffrey Dahmer, infamous serial killer
HyperMark
Quarry Creeper
I'm pretty sure you got the wrong end of the stick there Teng. :lmao:
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
To answer your questions in reverse order, no I am not infallible, but God and His Word (the Bible) are.
I have no interest in your money, for the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, but as Jesus cared for people when He walked this earth, I too care about what happens to you and the others reading this. Does that make me wrong?
I couldn't care less about denominations or religions. God said it, and that settles it. It's written down in His Word for us to follow. Your move.
If your intellectual "integrity" costs you your eternal soul, what then? Will you choose to believe that your ways of thinking are higher than God's? Surely you can see what a rediculous mistake that would be, given the weight of the outcomes at stake. If you are truly interested in following your intellect, may I recommend:
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation-ebook/dp/B01863JLK2
Can you present non-biblical based evidence for the infallibility of God and his word?
Teng
RCC Addict
In the opposite way :mrgreen::ror: Same thing apply in none believers :lmao:
Teng
RCC Addict
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:16~17
Teng
RCC Addict
God's Wrath against Sin
(Jeremiah 6:10-21; Jeremiah 25:15-33; Jonah 1:4-10; Acts 27:13-26)
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans
(Jeremiah 6:10-21; Jeremiah 25:15-33; Jonah 1:4-10; Acts 27:13-26)
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
History tells us (in the very article you linked to, as a matter of fact) that Jeffrey Dahmer was not a Christian when he murdered people. At the end of his life he seems to have repented and turned to Christ, but without an opportunity to see any fruit, whether good or bad, from his life following this supposed conversion, it's tough to tell whether or not he was being authentic.
As a side note, in a video interview with Dr. James Dobson, Dahmer sites addiction to pornography as the driving force behind his 17 murders and canabalism.
Teng, what part of "we don't recognize scripture as authoritative text" do you not understand?
Spouting bible verses accomplishes nothing, apart from the incorrect assumption that you are doing something meaningful...
Spouting bible verses accomplishes nothing, apart from the incorrect assumption that you are doing something meaningful...
Correlation is not causation. Plenty of people are addicted to pornography, but Dahmer level behavior is extraordinarily rare.
Also, a person cannot self diagnose their mental issues, especially those as deeply disturbing as Dahmers.
No, it's not even close to being clear.
No idea, how about it was created by some alien life form??? That's just as plausible and provable as believing the universe was created by a singular god.
You won't accept a scientific explanation...... yet you're happy to believe a nonsensical story written in a book? Yeah right, there's some logic in that argument :lmao:
Teng
RCC Addict
How about watch a short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CulBuMCLg0
p/s: I respect you and every members here.
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
That's like asking, "Now that you know the earth is round, and rotates the sun, could you choose to believe that it's flat, and the center of the universe?" and then flip-flop back a few days later. Sure I could, but what would it prove, other than extreme wishy-washyness?
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
So you admit that you don't know but are unwilling to accept the existence and authority of a supreme being that He has written down for you?
And no, I won't accept a scientific theory that has no basis in reality because it does not address the more pertinent core issue of where it all came from. Scientists tell us that toast came out of the toaster, without explaining where the bread, toaster, or electricity came from, who made them, or even who pressed the "toast" button!
How about watch a short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CulBuMCLg0
p/s: I respect you and every members here.
I think we can all agree that at some point, the universe had a beginning. The real debate is what or who the prime mover was that brought about that beginning.
Science, at it's present point, can only reach back so far. While the prime mover is still not understood, the point of origin is. That is the Big Bang, the point where all of the matter in the universe sprung forth from an almost inconceivably small point.
I disagree with the claim that the cause must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, and uncaused. We don't know what was on the other side of the BB.
Proclaiming in that scenario that God is the prime mover is purely an assumption and is the "God of the Gaps" argument, meaning that since we don't know, it has to be God, there can be no other answer. That is a dangerous argument to make because at some point, like many times in the past, science has blown right past Goddidit and provided a provable and testable explanation.
It is not impossible to believe in God and at the same time recognize that the understanding of our origin and universe at the time the bible was written was very poor at best. Science was not even a thing then, and all knowledge of the natural world was based largely on philosophy, meaning even the wisest of men just thought about things and settled on what made the most sense.
The prime mover could still be God (or a god), but with a different method than what is described in 5000 yr old text.
Science starts with a question and moves towards an answer.
Religion starts with an answer and moves towards the most appropriate question.
The scientific approach to the toaster problem is to examine the parts, the process, how it all works, and compare it to other toasters.
The religious approach to the toaster problem is to proclaim the toasted bread to be a divine miracle that is beyond our comprehension, and that all other toasters are false appliances.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
Your opinion that it is infallible does not hold water with me.
Never said that it did; I'm just observing how the church loves money. The basket never fails to be passed around at our church. Our previous church closed when it didn't get enough.
Well, "us" seems to have many wildly varying interpretations of the bible, from atheism to panentheism. To me it's just an old book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism#Christianity
As have said before, I cannot consciously choose what I believe. Can you? Why do you keep evading that question when I put it to you?
To date, you have given me no more reason to worry about that than I have for worrying about getting a lump of coal from Santa this Christmas. You have made no effort to ground your claims in reality.
Read it. I found the audiobook to have the edge on intellectual integrity, where he changes the "having concrete evidence for God" to "having almost concrete evidence for God". But he still fails to produce it in either version.
